Re: Equinox

--I am sorry for your experience and obviously in spite of all the knowledge you got you till think negative you see I am a equinox distributor and I think that you right some of the distributor are bad and other are good but the product it's good for everybody Student in Computer Lab, ***

Re: Sexual Abuse

Hi!

I am living in South -Africa. I am Amway "distributor " since Amway opend here. ( I am not a english speaking ) My front line is lesbian, she tried to make sexsual contact one of my prospect. I try to report to my diamond but she sad my prospect is lying. I cant do anything to protect my group. By , ***

Re: Excel

I read lots of stories about the dangerous mind control of Amway. How about Excel? My wife joined this organization. It is just as bad if not worse than Amway. Tapes, books, meetings, plus $245 per year to sell phone service to your relatives and "friends". Does not anyone else see something wrong with this picture? I am I the only one on planet Earth that thinks that Excel is a worse scam then Amway, Herbal Life, Avon, Mary Kay and the rest of the MLM scams?

Re: Disgruntled Distributor

We are soooo glad this information is out there now. For years I thought I was 'Negitive Nelly' all by my lonesome. Yea, Yea, Yea!!!!!!! The time has come for all to surface. From years of abuse, all has been covered up!!!!!!! I know, I am one who was abused. I'm just 'negitive' and a loser! Talk to you soon! YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

Re: Equinox

Hi! I have no idea what *** wrote to you about Equinox, but I am somewhat concerned. He has done everything they have asked for about a year without any results. However they do belittle and abuse anyone who asks any questions. In fact, they won't answer any questions but reply, "You aren't committed enough, or you aren't aggressive enough". Now they are saying that it's Doug's family's fault because they don't support him sufficiently. They brag ALL the time about how much their suits and ties and shoes and cars cost which rather turns my stomach since they tend to dress rather badly unless you like cheap and flashy. I think they are a thoroughly disagreeable bunch. I couldn't recommend involvement to anyone.

Re: MLM

hi, I am actually stil trying to make $$with MLM please tell me why it has a page to dicourage it...I haven't made a dime yet and have spent frustrating computer time. thanks

The situation is that I am an Artisit/Painter/Weaver/Potter and I do not make any $$ at anything and suffer much phychic competition in order to prevent me from selling ( I might as well sell babies) my work is valuable but suffers symbolic significance and I thought MLM would be a way to get cash...it is not a pleasant way to spend time and I am suffering some of the same conflicts.Since last winter I have been trying I was interested it the Millionaire Makers program but did not have 530.00 or 5 people to sign on so I thought I would use my computer to mke the $$ through signing on to free programs...MM seems to be longer be communicating with me though initially my sponser signed on with Oyage under me but then Oyage became disreputable. I am truly looking for an easy way to make $$ by joining a functional economy I would prefer to join an art economy but it does not seem to exist,so I would join an MLM economy if it were healthy...I end up feeding much with my art that does not sell I want some $$$! Thankyou for your advice.

Re: My Story

I have just been 'surfing' and a whim, made me do a search for 'Amway'..a sore blast from the past. I am stunned by the mass of literature written by others like yourself who have been exposed to this corrupt organisation. Thank God there are people out there like you who are exposing these greedy and selifish organisations.

I am from the UK, my name is ***. I was first exposed the the Amway business five years ago as my Boyfriends (**) parents had recently joined. His parents ran a successful family firm and my boyfriend worked for them. His parents were introduced to the business by their daughter and her husband. Myself and ** avoided joining the business for several years, but as ** worked alongside his mother he was constantly pressurised to join. ** flirted with the business but seldom rose above 3 percent. We spent money constantly on the 'tools' and ** made some money by retail.

Situations became bizarre when his parents fell out with their upline (daughter and husband in law) as **'s parents claimed that their upline were stealing their downline (at this stage **'s sister was at 21%), the result was that they have never spoken since, that was three years ago.

**'s parents were very 'successful' as they were salespeople by trade and attained direct level. They began to have severe marital problems, partly due to the hours they spent appart and due to the fact that they felt they no longer had a daughter (they also lost a grandchild). The result now is the divorce of **'s parents, a year and a half ago **'s father was caught having an affair with one of his downline who was thirty five years his junior.

Today, **'s sister is separated from her husband, but still partakes in the business. His parents are currently divorcing and the family firm is in a terrible state due to neglection. **'s father was never 'thrown out' of the business on moral grounds. He excuses his 'life change' present divorce by claimimg that if it hadn't been for the books and tapes, he never would have dreamed, if he had not dreamed, he would never have seen what else he could do with my life. ** has lost a family and is now unemployed as he can't bear to work with his father in the family firm.

One of the saddest moments that I can recall from the past year, was **'s mother sitting alone in her house, with the phone silent. That had never been the way before it was always constantly ringing with distrubutors. A month after her husband had left her, she never heard from her Amway 'friends' and all her old friends no longer called her as she had done as she was told and 'snubbed' them as they were 'negative'.

I can only express my feelings by saying that when I think of that business I feel sick and very embarrassed. I asked my friends and colleagues to see it, they might have ended up worse..what kind of friend does that make me?

Of course what has happened cannot be solely blamed on Amway, but I often wonder what would have happened if it had never existed?

I am so embarrased as I was warned by family and friends, they ironically kept telling me that the business destroyed families and friendships. Now I have lost faith in my judgement.

Thank you for offering me the chance to tell my story, I know you will understand, my personal wish is that my boyfriend, ** will in time learn to live with what has happened.

I understand that if you feel the need to publish this story on the net, you will. All I ask of you is that you edit names and details etc. ** and I are young people who are building our lives together, it is embarrassing enough being once associated with that business, without the world knowing who we are and our past. Thankfully people in the UK are waking up to this business and I hope one day it will be banned.

Thank you again

Re: Amway!!????

Thanks to yours and all the other websites out there we woke up from our "nightmare" just about a year ago. I am a frequent visitor to all the web sites and have really enjoyed reading and sharing the Probrandt's site. In May of last year when the fog was just starting to lift we contacted our upline emeralds, ***, and told them that we needed to back down a little and re-group ourselves. Actually what had happened was we had just completed our tax return the month before and had claimed a $13,000.00 loss on our scheduale C .... yes I said 13 thousand.... and I have the tax return to prove it.. and the I.R.S. had no problem with it. As I said we told them we needed to back away for a while.. cancel all our tapes,books, and not attend meetings for a while( note: we were STILL at this point not going to quit..just back off a little.... talk about brainwashing!! ) Well I didnt know then what I know now but we had just commited the ultimate "system" sin... we were in thier pockets (instead of them in ours) !! I tell you what .. for all of you out there who say this is not a cult... just back away from it for a month ... like I said it was as if a fog had lifted from around us... we saw the business for what it truly was.. a SCAM !!!! We made the decision in June to completly quit.... now during the month of May we still had our Amvox and were getting messages (although our emerald was sending all the messages to our downline since we had "backed off" for a while) and periodically we would get an amvox from our emeralds saying things like: (come on all together now .. you know the routine) "You guys are awesome"... "we love you guys".. "call us if you need anything"... "call us if you need to council".. "you guys are winners"..."we believe in you" etc... etc.... In June we called to let them know that we had decided that we no longer wanted to be in Amway.. we were cancelling our Amvox and that we had informed our downline. We also asked them if they would buy back some of the tools ha ha ha ha ha ... were we naive... we were not aware nor were we ever told about the 180 day rule... After that discussion we never heard from them again .. we left them repeated amvox messages but they never called us back.... we were so angry and so bitter and so disgusted... as I said thank goodness for yours and the other sites .. we knew we were not alone!! Did I say I never heard from them again ?? Well not so... when our renewal notice came in the mail we laughed... I almost threw it away but I kept in in my desk... (by the way we did get a postcard from them saying "Hi we miss you" (puke) funny how it came right at renewal time) ... I discovered the renewal notice in my desk when I was organizing receipts etc for my tax return... this was in late december.... I decided to write a letter to Amway letting them know that not only would we not be renewing or signing the BSM agreement but that we were ashamed to have ever been associated with a company who wears blinders to the unscrupulous tactics of Dexter Yager and all his downline clones.. I sent it off not thinking about it again.... This past April(1998) we got a note from our former emerald, **, .. in the envelope was a copy of a note I had left him along with a check .. when I had gone to his house to pick up extra tools I need and he was not home( I had his wifes permission to do this) ... he said he had found the check and tried to cash it but the account was no longer open (well duhhhhh ** it was the "business" account and it closed when we quit) . Now let me backtrack a little .. this check was dated December 1996... yes 1996 .. over a year prior to him finding it... he said it had slipped in between some papers and he had found it while getting his paper work ready for his taxes..... I remembered this check because by the end of January 1997 it had not gone thru my bank yet(you all ex-ambots know that your upline never held a check for more than two days) ... I called his wife and told her the situation .. she said to just give her another check when I came and picked up my product that week and put a stop payment on the other one(cost $15 to stop pay a check hmmmm... did she offer to pay that since THEY had lost it ...noooo.. did I care at the time... nooo... brainwashing at its finest).... In his note he sent me he said .. either replace the check or ship the tools back to him LOL.. yea right... my husband and I got a good laugh out of it but never bothered to respond..... well about 2 weeks after recieving that note we got a letter from Amway??!!! They were responding to my letter I had written to them when I sent in my unsigned renewal form..... basically the letter said some drivel about how we were not ever requiered to purchase tools etc... and that they were sorry that we did not renew but if we ever wanted to come back they would love for us to be a part of the amway family again etc... etc... and PUKE !! At the bottom of the letter they said that they had sent a copy of MY letter to our (former) upline emerald, **...diamond Randy and Valerie Haugen and Dexter Yager .. I couldnt believe it .. not that I cared but who told them they could do that .... not more than 3 days after recieving the amway letter we got another note from emerald **....this was nasty (gee thought they loved us LOL ) ... it said and I quote" You two will never cease to amaze me.... you will reap what you sow.... may you be as succesful in the future as you have been in the past" The sarcasm was dripping off the paper.. this coming from a loving supportive upline mormon !!!! Well I couldnt let this one go so I wrote back to him: "**, What a hypocrite you are.. you will never cease to amaze US... You WILL reap what you sow ... and by the way .. unlike you we have morals and scruples and would never cheat or scam anyone... the check you questioned us about was replaced with check #*** ask your wife about it!!! Since then we have not heard from them... hmmmmmm... Sorry this was so long.. I have already shared our amway "nightmare" on other websites last year... but this was to good(funny) to pass up without sharing it.... another testimony of the unscrupulous low lifes in amway that people are out there edifying (uggggg I hate that word) !!!!! Thanks for your time in maintaining this website.....

Re: Amway

My wife and I were with Amway or rather the "world wide group" for the past 5 months as a distributer. We listened to their plan and it sounded good. We also listened to our parents because the had been bitten by the "scAMway" plan too and we directed some questions at our upline that answered them with some very believable "bull" and we took it hook line and sinker. After the first month we made some major discoveries on our own on how much stuff really costs in this. We felt we would be wrong to try and "stick" our friends or families with this kinda bull (regarding the rediculous high prices with the supossed wholesale savings). After another 2 months went by we stopped at a Local Costco wholesale Warehouse in Clarkston Wa. and we did some serious comparisons. We have totally stopped buying amway products and started shopping at Costco where we were told that we would be wasting our money. Well in comparison we have saved a lot of money in buying name brand stuff not to mention driving only 20 miles and getting it in 30 minutes compared to having to wait a week for delivery no to mention shipping and handling. Your site just helped put the nail in the coffen for our business and I again would like to thank you.

Re: Equinox Shysters

I got conned into attending one of those Equinox cattle calls today, although thankfully the only thing it cost me was about 4 and 1/2 hours of my precious time (I'm considering sending those con artists a bill!). These scumbags advertised in "The Hollywood Reporter" and that is where I saw the ad. I was looking for a nice quiet desk job--one that I could do during the week so that I could continue writing on the weekends (I'm a screenwriter and a script consultant). Somehow, my contact person, by talking successfully in circles around what the "job" was all about, persuaded me to come in for an "interview" on a Saturday. That should have been my first clue that this was a marketing scam. Nobody in real business interviews on a Saturday!

I was led to a seat at the front of the room by my contact person. She seemed nice enough (I think, poor thing, she has been seriously brainwashed), but I didn't understand what the scam was (until quite trapped in the recruiting seminar) that this was just a pyramid scheme. Unfortunately, since I was raised to be polite, I didn't immediately get up and walk out (although the woman who sat next to me did. Brava! Smart lady!) We got to see a motivational tape by the His Divine Eminence Bill Gouldd (any idiot who adds an extra "d" to his name because a "spiritual advisor" said he was "out of balance" without it is a freak, in my never-to-be-humble opinion). Supposedly, this was a "live" satellite feed, going out to all parts of The Land of the Free at the same time. Funny how Bill Gouldd said it was "evening" where he was, since this took place at about 11 a. m. Pacific Time, and the latest it could have been on the East Coast was 2 p. m.! Can anyone say "video tape b. s.?!"

My, what a high opinion this man has of himself! We got the whole spiel about how he was dying and in agony and his body puffed out like the Goodyear Blimp until a Mexican "healer" (read: scam "herbalist") made him whole, Praise Jesus! In that instant (once again, Hallelujah!) he realized that these were the products he was meant to sell to the world. A people in darkness were about to see a great light named Bill Gouldd (I wonder if he had annexed the second "d" by that time?) Then, after the Divine One signed off the "satellite feed" (read: videotape) one by one, his beloved Disciples of Dealership got up for their testimonials. I thought "Please God, make it stop!" I wish the rude part of me had just gotten up and walked out at that point.

I'm glad I searched the web afterward to find out what a slick con man Gouldd really is! That's how I found this web page. Anyway, we got all sorts of hard sell tactics, drawings of circles with "happy faces" in them (representing yourself in the Grand Scheme O' Equinox Things!), demonstrations of how Binaca can be turned into a deadly flame thrower (I'll have to keep that in mind for future screenplays--neat trick!), and heartwarming testimonials of just how wonderful the company is. I wanted to vomit.

Anyway, RUN, do not walk, away from anyone who tries to get you into this laughable pile of rat turds known as a multi-level marketing! I felt enormous satisfaction when all the blather was over to say in my sweetest voice to my contact person "You know, this just isn't for me." She tried her darndest to change my mind, but I was already buttoning up my raincoat and headed for the door. When she realized I wasn't buying into the garbage, or in any way about to sign my name to anything, she gamely pumped my hand in an insincerely handshake, tried to smile, and wished me luck. God knows what was going through her mind, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was something like: "That woman will never make it! She insists on using her own talents to make her way in Hollywood! She's not bowing to the Divine Will of Our Lord and Savior Bill Gouldd with the double d's!"

The scariest thing about the whole experience was the "Moonie-like" nature of the True Believers in the room. I thought sarcastically what sheep they were--then realized, in horror and pity, that that's exactly what they are! They spouted the party line like Gospel, and are gung-ho in their allegiance to the company to the point of frightening stupidity. They are clearly under a spell--and their focus on pure, unadulterated greed chilled me to the bone.

Oh, by the way, I'm both a conservative Republican and a Catholic--and find the Equinox tactics not only appalling, but downright evil. So don't get the idea that all Republicans and Christians buy into the garbage these rats spew! They do not!

Well, good luck to all of you! I hope you all manage to escape the clutches of these monsters and stranglers of individual thought. Now, go out their and get a job! If you are good at what you do, you'll succeed, despite what these morons tell you. I sure as heck plan to succeed! Maybe someday you will all see my motion pictures on the big screen: "Written and Directed by:" Of course, you won't know it's me, because my name will not be posted in this forum. But I'll know I made it--with out the blessings or mind control of the Divine Double D Gouldd!

God bless you all! Stay out of MLM trouble, ya'll!

Re: Amway

well if you think about it, the only people that can't win in this business are those who quit. You have to draw your line somewhere. Some people are dumb and spend all their money on books and tapes and stuff. Well i have listened to about 60 tapes, and i have read a few books. And I didn't pay for one of them. Yeah the percentage of people that make it is low, but that is cause so many people get in, don't see quick results, and quit. Those are the people that don't make it. You know it does take work and effort, and it isn't easy. But if you do do the work and make the effort, then you go make the money. It is lazy people that have a poor work habit that don't make it. All I know is I am going to stick with it. Even if i don't go diamond and only make a couple hundred dollars a month...which is possible if you know anything about this business, then it is worth it. And I won't blow thousands of dollars on functions and tapes and books. Cause anyone who does that is just plain dumb. They need to think more for themselves and think what is best for them. No one knows what is best for you, except yourself. And until this business shows me some flaws, then it is still the best thing out there. What you need is a work ethic, and to put some effort into this thing. No one ever said it is easy. But it is possible. I am not thinking about going diamond now, but the thought that i can do it is what drives me. You have to better understand the business and how it works. then you can make judgments. And I don't care about the lawsuits. Cause people will sue for anything. If something doesn't go a certain way for someone...they are going to sue. those people that sued just feel stupid for not being able to do the business and want money because of it. I say don't blathe business, but blame your own lazy ass for not being able to do what it takes.

Re: Melaleuca

I'm wondering what the bad experiences were with Melaleuca? The company is solid, and if you are buying products every month for your family anyway, why not use safer ones. I've never heard of anyone in Melaleuca getting ripped off as far as money goes. If I weren't a marketing executive, I would use the products anyway. How can the President of a company so bad just be appointed to the United States Chamber of Commerce? [Lots of people have served as President of the US Chamber of Commerce. Jay Van Andel, Chairman and co-founder of Amway, was one. Last time I checked, they didn't run an ethics or honesty check before electing the guy.]

Re: Amscam

I am not currently active in showing the plan right now but I can assure you that the investment that I am making in my weekly tapes of the week program I believe are responsible for the personal growth I have made and has res ulted in a significant increase in my job income. I would like to encour age you to go upline until you find someone who you can relate to. It seems that if you only have $600.00 US invested in tapes you are not including SOT (Standing order) tapes and DBR's (story tapes). quick calculation tel l us you are not looking for a refund on 4 years worth of tapes not 4 yea rs of tapes.

Thanks for your website

First of, I want to thank you for your latest web site you did an excellent job. I was looking for that letter that exposes Equinox by the former high ranking member in Equinox. The beauty of the Internet is more and more people can expose the frauds these companies perpetuate. Keep up the good work. Do you know of any class action lawsuits pending against Equinox. I would like very much to be involved. Please e-mail me if you know of any. Thank you I will be sending you a very detailed message about my Equinox experience tonight. I've learned much about Bill Gouldd since leaving that organization. Mostly through caring and risk taking people such as yourselves. Anybody who puts up a web page exposing Equinox has courage and is a risk taker. That former eight track stereo salesman (Gouldd) probably goes after anybody who shows the real Gouldd.

Re: Cult

I was very moved by your story. My husband's brother and his wife approched us about becoming involved in Amway.

We went to thier home, feeling like we had no other choice. They and another couple gave us the speech....Asked us what it was we wanted out of life and what our goals were....etc.etc.etc...My sister-in-law chimed in that she wanted to retire, at the age of 36, stating she had worked long enough, and that she wanted to build a new house. I was somewhat taken back by this comment.

During this whole meeting it was centered around the word "I". I want a new car, I want a new house, I want to retire. As my husband and I drove home we were speechless.

They had given us a tape and told us that they would come by the following Thursday night to talk with us again. So the next day on my way to work "I" put the tape in. "I" was speechless again. I thought I was hearing Jim and Tami Faye Baker. "I want to tell you about myself" ......."I was broke and in the gutter, and now I have been saved"........."I"....."I"........."I have more money then "I" know what to do with".

So...before the Thursday meeting, "I" did some investagateing. I typed out questions I had about this wonderful money making deal. I had search the internet and found several lawsuits, stories, etc. All of which I had questions about.

I handed the questions to my sister and brother -in-law and the couple that was with them, who I might add did all the talking. "Oh.....these are very good questions as they wrote them down.....very good questions.....oh yes well...you sure did your research and oh....that is good we want you to........"

They were in my home a total of 20min......and we have not heard a word from them since. We had no intentions of becoming involved in this from the start. One of my major concerns was being first introduced to this as "I'm not going to sell you anything.....Something has to be sold in order to make money.

Later the subject of Amway come up again between my brother-in-law and I. "I" simple told him that the money he thinks he will make was being given to those people who are making those stupid tapes he was passing out.

Years and years ago I think Amway was a good product. You sold the product and made what little money off the product. Today they are selling the "I feel good tapes". Yes....I think it is a form of a cult. But, I wish all those who get in it the best of luck. I hope they find that ruby or diamond.

Well....best of luck to you and it was nice to read your story. Sorry you got sucked in. I would like to hope my brother and sister-in-law make the fortune they want. But, I fear it my be simliar to your story. If it is so easy to do in Amway then why are there just a few??????? And, why are they the ones who are selling the tapes.....that is where the money is, those ruby and diamonds on thier fingers were from people like you who were scamed.

Your fortune will come in keeping one person from walking down that same path.

Re: Equinox

I got to be a supervisor for $3000.00. I have brought in more then 40 'job seekers', without one bite. Now I would like to just cut my loses and get out. Do you have any relevant experience with returning products to Equinox?

Re: Scammed in Oklahoma

Thank you so much for enlightening me on the truth about Equinox. I have to admit it wasn't easy finding your site- I had to wade through quite a few ads harping praises for Equinox (all made by Equinox employees) . The truth is that I'm terrified that my fiancee has been sucked into the scam and will have a hard time getting out. They have played on just about every single one of his emotions and have done a huge sales job on him. He truly believes that after being in this business for a week he will be making $6,000 a month. It doesn't help that the girl that has taken him "under her wing" drives a brand new BMW and makes promises of big money. >From the very beginning something just hasn't seemed right. Honestly, if a company is looking for career-minded executives I seriously doubt that they would place an ad in the newspaper stating "ATTENTION EX-ATHLETES: MAKE $4,000 to $6,000 PER MONTH". I feel so insulted that someone would try to play on our emotions in such an immoral, indecent, and unprofessional manner. My main concern is how I am going to help my fiancee get out of this ridiculous pyramid scheme before it's too late. Do you have any suggestions? They've sucked $300 out of him for a seminar that was held in Kentucky last weekend and now he's already trying to talk me into buying and/or selling products. I can't stand being so pessimistic and feeling as if I'm the bad guy anymore. Please help me protect myself and my fiancee from these "glorified con-artists". Thank You,

Re: Amway and Cults

Hello, I am currently researching religions and cults. A friend of mine told me of web sites that compare AMWAY to Cults. This information would be very valuable to me. Do you know of any onf these sites. Please let me know where I can find them.

Re: Get Real

were do you come up with this garbage, I get asked more and more each day about have I tried this product or that service people have to rely on one on one sharing because they is to much information and people don't know what to choose any moor! Then you have the new's media with they scare segments saying this about a product or service!

Re: Amway [Every now and again a letter comes along that is so full of knee-jerk Ambotspeak I can't resist responding to it. This letter was in response to one of the other stories on my site. My comments are in brackets.]

Disenchanted Ex-Amway Distributor, Hi! Just wanted to write you a letter in response to all the garbage that I read on your web site. I believe that you had a bad experience in Amway... [Yes, but I'm in very good company.] Without a doubt. I have sponsored people like you. I feel very confident in the fact that you didn't approach this business as a business. Why do I say that? well... In America, businessmen and women are allowed to write off business expenses and/or losses.[Well, duh, what a revelation! Thank you Mr. Enlightenment! Actually, the Diamond that I worked for for five years wrote off an amazing number of things as business expenses!] Furthermore, it is very apparent that you ran your business with an impulse buyers' approach to things. [No, it was run like a well-trained cult mind-control victim would run it. Upline says "jump," you ask "how high?"] Lastly, this business requires that you be WILLING to change. It is insane to do the same things over and over and expect different results. [Yes, it is. That is why it is so insane for distributors to continue buying tapes and books and attending functions when it shows no results. But you know what? They do it because their upline, whom they trust, tells them to!!!]You have to change what you are doing and try again. I am not insulting you... I am trying to point out a few mistakes that you obviously made. Please don't make me or any other distributors responsible for your mistakes. [Ah, the old 'blame the victim' ploy. It's never the fault of the SYSTEM, even though the system only allows for less than 1% to go Direct, and less than .017% to go Diamond! No, it's the distributor's fault!] We aren't. I checked this business out thouroughly before I got involved. [Really? Where did you find information before you got involved about the tool money? Do you know how much your Diamond makes on tools compared to how much he makes from Amway? Not even the Emeralds know that, but you're saying you did. What's your pin level?] It does provide everything that my upline told me. Why didn't it work for you? Well.... did you work to give someone else success or just yourself? Did you try to help someone else "GO DIRECT" or yourself? The answer is your answer...not mine. YOU KNOW BETTER THAN ANYONE...were you self-serving? [This is really funny! Who are the most self-serving distributors? The HIGHEST pins, not the lowest. Who stands to gain from your business whether or not you ever sell a product, sponsor a distributor, or make a penny yourself? Why, your wonderful, giving, altruistic upline Diamond of course! As long as you're on SOT, BOM, and attend functions, he doesn't give a rip how much you lose down the Ampit.]

Most people find it hard to give. That is what this business is really about. It is about giving my time and effort to help someone else get what they want. 100%. Not 50%, 60% or 90%. Not "I hope this works for me", "Why won't anybody get in business with me", "Why can't I sponsor anyone" "Why isn't my sponsor helping me", "Why is the world against me", etc, etc. The problem you had with the Amway business had nothing to do with Amway. It had to do with your perception of Amway and your expectations of the people you were involved with. Just because someone is involved in Amway doesn't mean that they aren't just as self-serving as you or anyone else. People like you expected them to be "White Knights" that would never do anything to hurt them. That is just plainly naive. [No, you are plainly naive if you believe this is what the business is all about. How long will you ignore all the real, hard evidence that shows just the opposite?] This business requires that you change in order to succeed. You can't keep doing what you are doing and expect different results. Such is the mainstream of our society. A large mass of people that make very few of their own decisions or make decisions based on factless opinions that someone else gave them.[Hmmm, who does this sound like?] I think that our forefathers would be nauseated by the complacency of the people in this country. I am. That is why I am WORKING my Amway business. I choose not to be complacent. I choose to take advantage of the opportunity that Amway has given me to be an income creator rather than a wage earner without the investment requirement of a conventional business. [Yes, and how long have you been WORKING your business, and with what results? Oh, don't tell me -- you've grown as a person thanks to the Amway business.]

You don't know my story any more than I know your complete story. I think you would be surprised at odds that I have overcome. Not by luck... but hard work and the willingness to change.

Lastly, I want to address the "Pyramid" accusations. How many of you have jobs? Do you earn more than your boss? Does he earn more than his boss? How many of you own your own conventional business? Do you have employees? Do they earn more than you? That's a pyramid.[Give me a break. The average Direct Distributor in the Amway business LOSES $918 per year. That's not my figure, that's the Wisconsin Attorney General's, and it's low and outdated. The average Diamond takes in several million $ a year on tools and functions, for which there is no such thing as an "end consumer". So where's the Pyramid, Soapy?]

Sincerely, Captain Amway

This is what my friends call me. Others may call me soapy

Re: Me Too!

They got me too! Boy, did that crap cost a lot! How can I get my money back?

Re: Here's My Story [Note: This is a blatant pitch for Excel.]

I'm a college kid looking for a way to make some extra money. My high school basketball coach tells me about this business called Excel. I join, costing me $195. I go out and sponsor 3 people who gather customers and I made $300 (today that would be $1200 due to pay increases). I ask everyone I know to become my customer and they do. One person out of 20 thinks that he had a better deal with Sprint, so he switches back at Excel's expense. The other 19 customers thank me for drastically reducing their phone bill. A year later I come back to my customers and tell them about our new lower rates and save them another 30% on their phone bill bringing their rate down to 10 cents per minute. I sponsor many people along the way in my Excel business. Now days, I have the new rep gather all of his 20 customer points and then send in his $245 with his application. Thus the new rep is assured to recoup their investment plus profit and I have weeded out all those people looking for a get-rich-quick scheme. So they call this thing an MLM I find out. It sure doesn't seem to fit the description on your home page about forcing customers to change buying habits. They dial 1+ just like they always did. New reps get everything they need plus training for the $245. Anything else they might need I provide for them to keep things simple and profitable for the new rep. I just think this business makes sense. I am paid up to 5% on personal customers usage and any person I show this business to has the same opportunity as myself. Our compensation stops on the 7th level meaning that the numbers add up. I've been doing this thing part-time for 2 years now and I'm now out of college and living on my Excel income. No, I'm not rich, but I have alot of free time to go play hoops or to snowboard during the winter. I never did want to have a boss, I can tell my upline to go to hell if I want. It won't affect my business a bit. I have been building my business largely without there help for these 2 years.

I have seen alot of MLM plans since I started Excel. It seems like everyone and their mother wants to recruit this Excel RD into their new best opportunity. Most of the MLMs I have seen are scams and the math on the money doesn't compute or rediculous numbers of people would be required to make substantial income. The trouble is people use emotions when making decisions about getting involved in an MLM. You instead should use your head. Is this something you can see yourself pushing on your friends? Will this service save your friends time or money? Are you willing to show this business to 20 or 30 people and sort through them to find others like yourself, not just any warm body with $245?

I would agree that there is just a ton of junk out there in the MLM business and that even some of these people are finding there way into Excel (they soon get booted for selling tools to dowlines, etc.). Look at a business opportunity for what the opportunity is, not for what the people in it are doing. Just because you see a couple people who are annoying as all get up in Excel, don't assume all Excel reps are like that. I won't say that Excel is the best thing or the only thing to do with your life. In fact for some people, what I do would be impossible. But if you don't want a boss and you're not afraid to talk to people and you don't have alot of money, then Excel might be right for you.

Re: Amway Only?

Enjoyed your website. Looks like so many people in Amway got stuck. Excel, ACN, BP, and the rest of the MLM's operate in the same fashion. Calling themselves franchises is a joke. Burger King doesn't ask its franchise owners to sell more Burger Kings and tell the owner of the first burger king that he/she will receive all the money for the whoppers sold on the seventh level of Burger Kings. MLM's work for the business. Kenny Troutt has made a lot of money with Excel Communications by having the cheapest sales force out there. Hundreds of thousands of reps with higher phone bills and few earning a living. No health benefits paid to reps nor even a discount on their own long distance. What a joke this MLM stuff is. Stay away from it! may the buyer beware. The only reason it works is because PT Barnum was right. "There is a sucker born every minute."

Re: Only Amway?

Are there any other MLMs besides Amway that are Bad or are they all pretty much a suckers game? Ihave a friend who is involved with Enrich....Anyone here had experience with them or know or someone who has? He seems to be doing pretty bad been involved with them for around three years now... Gos to meetings 5+ hrs long etc.... I think hes brainwashed.. hes certainly broke.... Any Info on them would be appreciated. THANX.

I really liked your site it has given me the insite and information to get out of the this business. I am going to get my wife and I out of it tonight. We have noticed that everything is considerably higher priced than in the stores and we are getting Scr#@ed. Well not any more. Thanks again

Hey, I am sorry to hear that you spent so much on the business. We quit after three years and only lost $5,000. So you might consider us one of the lucky ones. It has taught me a lesson though. To watch out for the too good to be true business opportunity. We are involved with an outstanding compnay now and we are enjoying every minute of it. As a matter of fact we are not chased by our upline, we call him for questions! You guys take care and I will be praying for you that everything works out for you and your family.

Re: Amway [This was in response to Diana and Joe's story]

Dear Diana, I am a newcomer to the Amway business. I guess your upline just sucked. My upline has been awesome. They have never told me to spend money on tapes or books. In fact, they have let me use their tapes and books for my own use. If you get into anything and try to learn it...it is impossible without the correct teaching. Don't blame the business cause obviously it works. Just ask all the millionaires that are out there. My upline is great. they are out there with me, helping me contact people, helping me go out and show the plan. And they never once told me to spend more money. Thye tell me to listen to tapes, read books, and attend meetings. And i have learned a lot by doing this. I will stick in it cause of my great upline...i trust them and i have no reason not to believe and trust them. They have not lied to me yet..and i don't believe they will. You just got shit out of luck by being in the business with an upline that obviously cared very little for you. You just didn't have the correct support under you. so don't blame the business, blame your upline for not helping you correctly.

Re: Amway

I think your webpage is helping people and doing good. I had a brush with Amway about a year ago. I was wiring a 30 unit apartment building for cable. The owner was renovating the entire building and I was interested, because the building was in the ghetto and was the only investment I had seen down here in a while (Chester, Pa. -murder rate Philly times three). The owner asked for my phone number, saying he might have a business opp. He called and we went to lunch. I thought it was strange that he wouldn't mention anything about it (I thought he wanted me to wireanother building, etc.). He started showing me graphs and explained the system. No mention of Amway. About halfway into it I asked him point blank, and he admitted it was. I remembered seing the 60 minutes episode, and mentioned that.( it was so long ago all I remembered was that amway looked bad, and the average distributor made $50/yr). He claimed 2 weeks after that episode aired CBS apologized on air to Amway. He wanted $200 or so to start, and wanted me to go to a meeting. I don't know where I got the guts (he was a good salesman) but I told him I wasn't interested. I look at MLM as a variation on the chain letter scam. Soirry my story is so boring. I'm really interested in the psychology of it. I wonder how many of the upper level actually believe.

Sorry I forgot to mention as bad as your story was, it still has a happy ending, and your webpage is educating people and giving them information so the can make informed decisions.It is inspiring, and I hope I can help people someday, like you are now. (Im thinking about joining the peace corps, but I don't think there is a huge demand in the third world for cable TV installers). Thank you!