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The following posts have been reprinted in their entirety from posts e-mailed by readers of this website, except that headers, names and locations have been removed. These posts express the opinions and experiences of their authors, and this site publisher makes no representations about them in any way whatsoever. Re: The Vehicle Hi . Glad to know that we are not alone. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$..Put out alot over the last 3 years.. Sponsered first couple 2 weeks into business. they sponsered some. They all quit 3 months after we sponsered them. My sponsor quits the business on his way home from a "Family Reunion" in Ada Mich. last summer. What's that tell ya? Council with upline once a month and he tells me the same thing."Just keep doing what your doing" If I keep doing what im doing I'll be Bankrupt in 3 months.. The secret to this business is Excitement and enthusiasm.... You have to sponsor quick and get that "new Person" A person to sponsor quick. In the begining it's exciteing and "Awesome". But once you been in for a while with very little sucess it becomes a drag, and becomes more of a finacial burden then anything. In the plan they say "You have a vehicle that will get you from this to that in 2to5 years" Well this vechicle w'eve had for 3.5 years.....I think i'ts time for a trade in because it just does not run. Thanks for the site |
Normally I don't respond to web sites.( You might say I'm a cyber-lurker ). I have read several of your responses and your story. I find them interesting and sometimes humorous. I can relate to alot of what you have said. I approached an Amway Distributor in 1992. I didn't know that he was a distributor at the time. All I knew was that he had a business that he was putting together - a "consolidated brokerage" he called it. After tricking my future sponsor to come over to my house I decided to join right away. All I knew about Amway was that my parents used LOC when I was a kid. My sponsor did not get back to me for 6 weeks. I didn't mind. My upline didn't know a thing about building a successful business. I plugged into the system. I learned things in a new way from the books(mostley) and tapes. After a couple of years of poking at it we decided to get serious. I was at about 200 pv and my sponsor was at 500pv that was in January of 1994. We put a plan together without our upline Direct or Diamond and ran hard. By March I was at 1000pv and My sponsor went Silver. By May I was at 2500 and looking at 4000 for the next month. My sponsor and I started to hold our own hotel opens. ( About $150 for a room that holds 50 to 60 people.) We started having our own training sessions and we started having social get-togethers ( no business talk ) with our group about every 3 to 4 months. We had a tight loyal group. We always told people that it would take a consistent effort of 10 to 15 hours a week to go direct. We always told them in the plan that like any business they were going to need to have the proper tools to develop a strong business. We asked people what they thought a business like ours would require in investment - both in time and money. When we got a new person started we helped them plan their time around God ( if they had one ), their family, their job, and their finances as they were at the time. We never gave advice out of our area of expertise. If a couple was having marital problems we would suggest a book. If stronger measures were needed we suggested counseling. We never promoted an upline leader to tackle something they weren't qualified to deal with. We promoted the system and functions. However, if a distributor didn't have the money to go we would not dis-own them. We tried to create an environment that people wanted to go and hang out with us and we would put together a plan with them so that they could budget for the next one without having to sell their TV.
My sponsor was the first non-PSDD to speak at a major function because of the rapid growth he had had. We had developed a pace and measure of success unlike anything our upline Diamond's group had ever seen before. I was starting to make a profit from both distributor volume and retail sales ( about 500 pv a month in retail ) - not alot but enough that I didn't stress about having a bad commission check from my job. Then "it" happened. We were almost completely cut off from our upline because we achieved this success without their planning or help. The cost of functions went from about $300 per couple to $500 per couple. Opens went from $5 per couple to $5 per per person. Our upline decided that we needed new techniques for the group because numbers were falling off. They spent alot of money to have a linguistics expert to put together crib notes for showing the plan so that old distributors would get out and do more. At the leadership meeting my sponsor and I voiced our opinion that this wasn't needed. We achieved success without using them and our people weren't using them and they were sponsoring new people. ( We had on average 63% of our group STPing 2 to 3 times per week). At this meeting we were told we didn't know what we were talking about because were new to leadership. For the next couple of months we focused on strengthening the bottom our legs. We also began to feel like we were the black sheep of our upline Diamond's organization. We also noticed that our upline Diamond never had more than one direct leg at any major function and that our Double Diamond's biggest function only had 318 people. Between my sponsors total group and my group we averaged over 200 people to seminar and rally and they would tell us we were doing the business all wrong! By the end of the year we realized that our upline was more interested in the pin level of a distributor than their income. The month I moved enough kits to go silver my upline Ruby held a meeting with my group ( at the request of the Diamond) to inform them that I was not plugged in and needed to start working directly with him. One of my leaders in my down line asked how many nights our ruby would be willing to work in the group. The Ruby said he didn't have time to actually working the group. ( My sponsor worked 2 nights a week in my group and I tried to work 2 nights a week in my two biggest legs). The Ruby then said some disparaging words about me. His comments blew a growing leg out. This leg was one that I had just drove about ten deep in a 6 week time frame and had already placed an order for 27 kits ( x $150 ). Big refund time! My sponsor was disgusted and so was I with our upline and we started to take our group to cross line functions. 18 months total working time in the business and we felt it was for nothing. Our upline was plagued with the Idea of the Month syndrome. By the time we "quit" our numbers dropped to a total of 5 people at the functions. Our people could see the foolishness of our upline. My former upline are good people but good people don't always make the best business partners.
We have since re-joined Amway. Hindsight is 20/20 having been out of the business for a couple of years gave us time to examine and re-evaluate who we might want to be in business with. During that two year absence I started a telecommunications consulting company. A company that I was dealing with asked me to replace the current president. I have been in that position now for almost a year. I don't believe I would have had the skills, attitude or determination to take on this position without having been in the Amway business. During this time I also started looking at several different organizations within the Amway business. I even built a spreadsheet to compare what I was looking for in a sponsor and group. I believe I found the right group of people who treat this business and their people at face value. I have been going for a little over 3 months now and have just reached 4000 pv - 40 distributors and about 25 retail customers and I couldn't be happier. I make a nice profit. I counsel with my upline regularly. However, I make my own decisions about MY business. After all, its my financial future we're talking about and my upline encourages this approach.
I appreciate your web page because it gives me valuable information about what NOT to do with distributors. I know this is a long response. Thank you. ( By the way, my upline which includes 3 Double Diamonds in a row used to be part of my former Double Diamond's group but they could see that their group was growing faster and bigger by being upfront with people and treating it like a business and not a religion, so they broke off and in two years have broke several new Emeralds and Directs while my old group still only had about 50 people at S&R.)
Part II
His wife and he went Diamond in 1978 doing the business the "old way" ( retailing first and formost ) and retired from the teaching proffession in 1982. He is an author of twelve excellent novels. I think he went Diamond because he had 5 sons in the business. This would make sense because the only direct he has left is not related and his sons are no longer in the business.
For a Diamond, his lifestyle isn't much different from any $100,000 to $150,000 per year CEO. Certianly not a "millionaires" lifestyle.
They went Double in 6 years. I would say that most of there business is international. I was told that in 1992 they had the largest int'l business in Amway. I know they do qualify 12 out of 12 each year to go to Diamnd Club. So they must have directs that count overseas. However their USA group is nothing. When I was deciding what group and who I wanted to sponsor me I attended a S&R of Randy Haugen and was amazed. I asked somebody if this was normal. They said actually it was small. There were over 2000 people at just a S&R! And there were 9 of them happening in just my state that weekend! However that is not the group I went with.
Sidenote: Here is a little history of that LOS. At first ( 1991 ) it went Amway, My Double Diamond, My Diamond. In 1992, Yager, Paine, Hughes, My Double Diamond, My Diamond. In 1994, Yager, Storms, My Double Diamond, My Diamond. I always thought this was strange. The reason they gave us was that Storms were their sponsor int'l and it would just make things easier for couceling because the Hughes' were retireing. The real reason I found out, after careful scrutiny, was that My double Diamonds had gone off on their own system when they went DD and had lost most of their group as a result. They begged Yager to be let back into the system but Hughes didn't want them part of their system. So a deal was struck. We were told that Storms did not get any money - it was out of the kindness of their hearts. True, Storms didn't get any Amway bonus for helping but Storms Enterprises does for selling tools( which BTW isn't an Amway Distributer and can sell tools to whomever they want to).
Any way, thanks for writing back. I didn't expect it.
My upline Double Diamond just said something cool. I'll share. He said. "If your people want to get time with me they need to be at the functions, if they're not I don't know why they'd want to get with me anyway because I'm going to tell them to be at the functions. But I don't want you to tell them that have to go and sell a TV or not pay rent to be there. And if they have church commitment, a wedding, baptismal or something like that then they should be there instead or a family priority. Don't let your people confuse life with Amway, don't be like the Jews of old who wouldn't go get the oxe out of the mud 'cause it was Sunday and let it die but also be careful of what you're calling an oxe in the mud too. I wouldn't call watching Seinfeld an oxe in the mud. And maybe playing softball three nights a week. Boy that was a hard one to give up for a while. If you have family get together every weekend with all the cousins and aunts and uncles, maybe you can miss one a month without hurting your relationships. See relationships are all that counts. I belive when I stand before the Almighty he's not going to ask me about how much money did I make; he's not going to ask me if I gave to my church or if I caught the winning touchdown in the WAC championship. Those things are important but He's going ask me 'tell me about your relationship with your wife. Tell me about your relationship with your kids. How did you treat others?' Don't burn bridges with people because they're negitive about Amway or coming to functions or buying tapes. It doesn't matter. Quit trying to dance with people who don't want to dance. If you have a distributor who only buys 1 thing a month, great, support them. I f you have a distributor who won't get on SOT so what love em anyway and let him listen to your tapes. Now if you've been in a while you know about major functions plan for them. If I find out anyone of my leaders told someone not to make a car payment or miss rent just to go to a major function, they're not really a leader in my book. A leader will help them plan out all the functions for the next year and help them plan for them. A leader will help them make a proper investment equal to their commitment level and not add another expense to their already payday to payday lifestyle.
Kinda long, but you can see we have a much different mentality in our group. We are also one the fastest growing groups in Amway. We try to make everyone feel included and part of the team regardless of where they are at with their commitment level. The result is more people renewing each year. More products flowing through the group. Less horror stories.
Well have a good one.
My husband and I joined Amway almost 4 years ago. With all the promises of freedom if we just did everything they (our upline) told us to do. well we did do everything to the tune of $19000.00 dollars in "investment" in our business . We achieved Silver at 9 months and dropped to 1500pv for the next several m,onths. At various times we talked with upline about things we felt were wrong. In the end we cahnged to someone further upline only to be fed the same garbage. we talked to all of our friends about our retirement and we even let our own business suffer to grow our Amway business. We have had upline take money under false pretences and who have screamed and threatened us. As you can tell we are not likely to renew this year! We have been told from the upline that Amway is strugggling and that the Diamonds etc. are shuffling things to try and keep it going. Yager functions were of 50% we were there we know! If you are thinking of investing in your future or if you are being told that it does work it has to be you. Don't listen. we have been succesful in ALL our tradional businesses and in this one, especially in the KING Yager line you have little chance of doing anything worthwhile except for petting the ego of this middle aged mand with a small man complex and a huge ego . It is about him and his kids. Why are they not distributors????
Part II
Yes I was being sarcastic when I said KING YAGER, I was talking about the Yager line. As for the functions being 50% off this year Iwas told that by an upline eMERALD WHO ATTENDED FREE ENT., IN New Orleans in September. I was also told by a Direct that the EDCs etc. are scrambling to keep things under control.
As for $19000.00 We estimate that we made aprox. $5000.00. What was interesting was that when we went silver we made aprox., $2200.00 and it cost us that to go to GO Diamond in FLorida. I found the items to be expensive and in fact was reprimanded by upline for not promoting items that I did not think were good.
:Lsst yera Diamond Direct Kelly Robbins told his Emeralds that the Yager system was becoming a White Elephant and although he was doing and promoting a business plan that we felt would not work we do believet that he is right on this matter.
I guess what makes me maddest is that people are told that they did not move on because of something they di. In our case that just is not true. I look for a class action suit if there is not one already.
Thanks for your response. I never knew Dexter had kids that were divorced, I did hear him talk one time about his sons marriage and that he had had the girl sign a pre matrimonila agreement. He said he did not work that hard to let someone steal it away from him.
We were fortunate in some ways, I had the ability to get around some bigger pins and even at that point you could see that all was not wwell in yagerville.
Thanks for the info ! I will be praying for you ! I feel the opposite as you I,ve never heard any of you talk about Jesus and how you relied on him for guidance in your lives or are you relying on "Bill". Good luck in your walk
I would like information on the MLM organization known as Alpine. Is this an on-the-level business. Is this a good business to get into and are they operating within the law?
[Alpine is presently the subject of a complaint by the Federal Trade Commission. Details are available on the FTC page on this site.]
I am trying to find some information on a company called Starlight International. It manuf. herbal health products and is based in Monterey, CA.
Thanks
Part II
THANK YOU
THANK YOU
THANK YOU
The material you sent sure helps me. It's taken me 4 days to get that stuff out of my system. My mother had severe heart problems and has been on the stuff for 3 weeks. Now, to get her off it.
Do you have any comments or expereinces with this group of MLM's?
Any infomation would be appreciated.
Here's a long background story, if you have time: As for my friend, I think she's generally aware of my skeptical nature (or as she probably would put it, "negativity"), because of previous comments I'd made....for example, I just recently found out that she drives every week to ** (45 min drive) to pick up product from her upline. That means packing [young children] back & forth. Her husband gets mad if she doesn't do it. Once, I had a Lonaberger basket party (I wanted to get some things for half price--the only reason I had the party). Her husband called her during it & gave her grief about not having her "priorities straight" since she wouldn't be able to pick up product! I was truly grateful for her attendance and subsequent order, but I wonder if she didn't buy the Horizon-of- Hope basket because proceeds would go towards breast cancer research (hence tax deductable?) I told her that "gee,you have to drive all the way out there & you still pay UPS? It's too bad you can't get the stuff sent to your house." She said, "well, we could, but some things they won't ship to our house" I finally got it out of her that they buy "tools" every week that only their upline sells. So I said, "I'd rather pay a couple bucks to have the tools mailed out to me, just to save the trouble..." She then said they really needed to spend "time" with other people in the business, to get an attitude check, etc. So now she doesn't tell me or just lies about what she's doing when she's busy to do things (to avoid my scrutiny).
That's another thing. I hardly EVER see her anymore. We have alot in common in terms of being stay-at-home moms; like to sew, craft & scrapbooking; and similar political views. We used to get together so our kids can play together, we'd take craft classes, etc. The past year, I've taken classes on my own. She hardly ever visits--once she had left her kids in the car while she exchanged patterns/stuff we lend each other. My daughter & I were disappointed (I straightened the house & she, her toys). I was really looking forward to this fall's craft shows (we'd just started last year, selling things we'd made). But she's only going to do 2/5, since she's so busy with other things. Plus, last year, her husband gave her grief about not making much money, when she could've been putting "all that towards the business".
She's recently joined a local Club, and within 18 months, has become vice-president, head of welcoming committee & social committee chairperson. I'm torn between being happy for her new endeavors but also green-horned jealousy! I keep hearing about how busy she is doing this and that for the club. Our phone conversations are countlessly interrupted by more important calls (ref. Elaine on Seinfeld). But what I can't figure out is why her husband supports her doing this (and even attends the fundraisers---selling hot dogs at [the] concession stand), but he abhorrs the idea of her doing craft shows. The only thing I can come up with is---- prospects! This is kind of confirmed when I hear about a member of the club she's made friends with--how important her job is, how important a public figure her husband is, how much they spend, how fancy their house/car/computer is, how impressive their last party/vacation was, yada, yada, yada. Sounds too familiar. It reminds me of when she talks about the Diamonds. Now tell me, am I being too critical? My husband says that he doesn't understand why I even let it get to me, & that I should just let her go her own way... But I can't help but feel sad for the friendship we had, and what could be without Amway. I'm tired of hearing her complain about how busy she is & brag at the same time. I hate the fact that she can't see through the system's deception, despite being college educated.
Finally, I'm tired of being lied to, too, because I'm starting to notice when she does...like when she casually mentioned that a friend of her's in the business is willing to teach us how to knit, at her ** house-----(along with what else?) Maybe I'm just plain jealous or cynical. Anyway, thanks for reading this.
This page updated Nov-22-98