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The following posts have been reprinted in their entirety from posts e-mailed by readers of this website, except that headers, names and locations have been removed. These posts express the opinions and experiences of their authors, and this site publisher makes no representations about them in any way whatsoever. Subject: Hello again Hi there! Just wanted to drop a line and say hello. I noticed there are people looking for information on Melaleuca. It's hard to find info on the company because they forbid recruiting over the Internet. One person, a Director lost his business because he mentioned Mel's official site on his personal web page. Flyers with the company name are also forbidden unless it's from the company. There is the Quackwatch page, [http://www.quackwatch.com] and another health scam page that talks about Mel. (the name escapes me at the moment) I'm planning to write an essay on MLM in general for a class, and over the holiday create my own web page. I'll include my Melaleuca experience. I'm dropping out in the new year. I found that site! It's: www.hcrc.org/faqs/m/melaleuc.html The organization is Healthcare Reality Check.

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Subject: an observation
Just an observation on mlm doublespeak. Both quotes from the same page

http://members.tripod.com/~nomorescams/macdonald.htm

"...given the sensitive nature of this, I ask that if you do pass it downline you do so without any additional commentary. We would really appreciate that, and it would help a lot."

"Amway and the Founding Families have always been active supporters of personal freedoms, including freedom of speech."

In the end it was experience of people like you and your friendly suggestions that helped my make up mind.

Thanks once again for the help. I wish you and your family very happy Christmas and a prosperous New Year.

With best wishes,

As per your letter to Jerry Faldwell, you state you were a distributor and worked for a diamond for 10 years. Whether you agree or disagree with what amway "preaches" or believes in you should put your efforts into something for constructive then bashing the Amway corporation.

The company and its distributors have helped alot of people, not just economically but in most cases emotionally. Some people feel the need to belong to something and have strong ties to other people. Amway and its distributors let people be part of something, more so than their jobs. People are free to do what they want, buy what they want etc..

If Dexter, Bill Britt, the DeVos & Van Andel families want to give Millions to Jerry Faldwell and Liberty university let them. They are worth millions and in the DeVos & Van Andel family;s case billions(It's pocket change for them). I know for fact they donate just as much if not more to worthy charities.

I am not a supporter of Liberty University in fact I am Jewish. Put efforts into something than can do more good for people than be rating the Amway corporation.

Part I

"The buck stops here." Have any of you heard this quote? I read 20 or so messages that were posted on your site, and while I sympathize with the authors' losses I have to say that most are saying that they had no control or choice about the situations in which they found themselves. In fact they CHOSE NOT TO exercise their brain and think for themselves. They all CHOSE TO DO NOTHING OTHER THAN react. INSTEAD OF filtering out the bad and passing on the good, THEY CHOSE to just cry, quit, and then whine about the bad. That's their choice and I respect their right to choose, but THE FACT REMAINS that many people have succeeded in the [whined about] business and many people become successful every month. I don't condone the actions of the 'tool' pushers mostly because they are not open and honest about where the profits go and how much they are. BUT, I CHOOSE not to let it interfere with my success and my future since THEY DON'T PAY MY BILLS! *I* DECIDE what books to buy, what tapes to buy, where to buy them, what seminars (if any) I go to, which business the seminar is sponsored by, where the seminar is, etc. *I* DECIDE which business to invest in, who to talk to about it, what to tell them about it, etc. I hope to whatever God is out there that you guys/girls don't let other people decide your whole life for you, because you sure allowed them to in this situation!

Part II

Please don't take these comments personally. I don't know you and don't know what you're really like and will not pretend to. If they go against your beliefs then I hope you'll open your mind and try to see them from this point of view.. Before responding please take a look at my web page(Not a business ad) regarding mlm and follow some of the links. I will be including sometime tonight the beginnings of a list of Amway links with views both supporting yours somewhat and opposing yours. http://members.aol.com/skeller569/mlm1.html

Good attempt at picking apart my email without really touching on the context of it. The numbers you gave me below, though statistically correct perhaps, do not address the context in which they were drawn. Nor do they address the underlying issues involved.

1% achieve DD ... so? which side of the 1% would you choose? Who's fault is it if DD isn't achieved? No one changes the rules along the way.. No one gets in your way.. No one ties you to your seat or locks you in your house.. No one points a gun to your head and prevents you from talking to people..

So, why 1%? I don't know.. What does it take to be a DD? Let's see... the SA-4400 says... Obtain a group volume of 7500 points... Hmmmm... does that say only 1% are allowed to make it to DD? No... Does it say that someone will do it for you? No... Does it say it'll be easy? No... Tells me how many people either don't want to get there, don't care, don't try, don't have enough patience.. Not anything about the business. If it's not for you, no problem, ask for your money back and don't do it! You're lucky!

If you start a conventional business and you don't like it, tough! Don't plan on getting anything back from the thousands or millions of dollars spent! Don't even tell me that it's Amways fault. It's no more Amway's fault for you failure than it is McDonalds' fault that your new McDonalds business failed (not that you have one, but lets use McDonalds as an example, eh?). Do you think McDonalds is going to return your franchise fee?(which happens to be around $1 million if not more and which happens to be after you've been on a waiting list for a while last I heard)

(I don't know what YOUR background is, but based on your comments you probably fit here. I could be wrong about you though.) The biggest problem with MLM businesses or rather the reason there are so many of you who complain about them is that you're not business people. You're normally people who have come from an employee background with a paycheck every other week for basically showing up everyday and warming a seat. Granted that's simplified and some people really work hard at their jobs, but a business is not a job. Your not supposed to be handed everything that you need just because it's there. If you show no initiative to learn things and do things in the business world you'll lose every time! You're not supposed to get a check every other week if you don't do anything to earn it. If you're not honest with people it will catch up to you eventually(as in the case of some of the current lawsuits). This problem is because the startup costs are usually low. ($150 in this case.. $110 when I joined). This opens the opportunity to people who normally wouldn't pursue running a business. Can you imagine though, someone opening up a McDonalds but never unlocking the doors? What would happen to the business? Or how about if the person continually burned the hamburgers? Or put in the beggars to greet the customers? This should make sense to you.. if not it's my guess that you'll never make it in MLM or any other business without a lot of help from someone.

The losses reported on DD tax returns in the 80's? Give me a break! How much research do you do? Do you have any idea what gets written off on tax returns? Any idea at all? Do you have any idea of how many businesses file negative tax returns because they have hidden their profits in 'expenses' and 'losses'? Did you know that a trip on a luxury yacht can be written off as a business expense? A trip to sunny Miami Beach? An expensive dinner in downtown Manhattan? A portion if not all of your monthly mortgage? A portion of your auto expenses? Not as many as once before, but still there. That's something that happens every day in the upper echelons of wealthy America. So, unless you are there it's not very smart to base your decisions on the IRS reports.

Diamonds? Well, let's talk about diamonds. What does it take to become a diamond..? Let's see, the SA-4400 says that you have to help six personally sponsored people reach the DD level...

(Case 1) Hmmmmm... Now there's a difficult concept. Does it say that.. oh, only .017 people are allowed to make it to diamond? No... does it say only 1% can make it? No... Then what does it say? Hmmmm.... Let's see, it says that you have to help six personally sponsored people reach the DD level... Does it say that it will take a certain amount of time? No... Then what does it say? Hmmm.... It says that you have to help six personally sponsored people reach the DD level... Hmmm... that's the same as what it said before! Wow. Well, I wonder if I have to sponsor anyone to become a diamond...??? Do I have to talk to people? Hmmmm.. I'm not sure. Maybe if I just sit here it will happen anyway! That's what I'll do! I'll just sit here! Someone will make me a diamond! I just know it!

Hate to tell ya , but the diamonds today are diamonds because they followed the same marketing/compensation plan that is available to you today. The difference is in the fact that they did what you didn't want to or weren't willing to do. They are in a position to receive profits from tape sales because they took the initiative to develop them. They will probably not lose the lawsuits short of a buyback, because they have not said that anyone HAS to buy tapes. There could be exceptions, but I doubt there are many. As a matter of fact Amway has a form that comes with the startup kit now that spells out the fact that tape purchases are optional.

I'm not sure what you think you learned from your experience, but again based on your comments and the type of web site you run, it couldn't have been very much. If your experience was so bad in Amway I feel badly for you, but it's really no ones fault but your own. You could have at any time asked to be transferred to another line of sponsorship. Someone I sponsored did that 'cause I was inactive and lived a long way from the person(an extremely honest person by the way). He's building the business now and making money, and I only became active 2 weeks ago. Better late than never.

Personal experience, after 4 years of inactivity, I have exactly 2 people in my group. Who are they? Me and my new wife. Do we make money? Of course not! why? Inactivity of course! Do I know anyone who makes money? Sure! My friend(above) and my sponsor(2 different people) plus many people in my sponsors group whose names I don't remember since I haven't been around them in a couple of years. Does my sponsor make money from the tapes? I don't know if he's gotten there yet, haven't asked. Do I care? Sure, I plan on getting to where he is, so I hope so. Do I plan on hiding it if I find out? No. If I make money from it? No. If I find out it's illegal will I stop? You betcha! Will I buy back the tapes if someone wants to sell? You betcha! Will I care? Sure! I'll feel bad that the person has decided not to pursue the business for whatever reason. It will affect both of our futures to some degree. Will I hold it against the person? Why should I? Of course not! If he holds it against me though, there's nothing I can do to prevent him. Would it be my fault? I don't know. I hope not! It is my goal to help everyone I can to do the best that they can, no matter what their position is.

Do I care what you think? Sure I do. Why? I don't know, it's a mix of things. I'll think about that one..

Good luck in future endeavors should there be any.

To whom it may concern, there is nothing wrong with the Amway opportunity, although I wish I could say the same thing about some of the distributors. You see it only costs about $200 to get involved and some people decide to do things there own way and screw them up. If anyone does proper researc(based on FACTS and not opinion) they will see that by getting in with the right organization they will become successful...if they follow the pattern. Amway is a proven success vehicule that is a reality, but Amway is also just another company. What makes the business special is that the distributos own the marketing plan....What this means is that the corporation will not and cannot change anything unless the disrtibutors(who are voting members) agree to it. Why is this so special?? Simple, when you start making for example $100,000 a year and you decide to not put as much effort into it the company can not decrease your income because they have a life time agreement with the ADA board(amway distributor association) which is totally seperate from the corporation. Therefore when you become an Amway distributor you are truly in your own business, and not a glorified salesman like most other MLM's. It's normal though for someone who has never been in business before in there lives to not understand, or someone who had a sponsor who thought he understood. Never the less it has nothing to do with the company.EG. When you walk into a department store and the sales person is a totally unprofessional, you, like me will probably never go there again....but it's not the stores fault is it.In conclusion I would lie to add the following.....If all the people on the net spent there time building an Amway business instead of trashing it (and I'm they trash more than this). They would really see that it is the best opportunity in the world, I can say for myself it has completely changed my life. And in life you need to look at the good qualities in all people and things, otherwise we would have no friends and no spouses or unhappy friendships and marriages.And with that I urge you to make a strong decision based on true facts on not somebody's opinion....Everyone has opinions and sometimes one person's opinion is not the same as anothers. If my friend told me that a certain movie was no good and I should'nt go see it, it would be stupid for me not to see the movie and decide for myself what it is exactly. Amway is respected by 60 Governments around the world and over 1000 major corporations.......are they all stupid?? or is it you and me??

Subject: MLM Scam Organizations

Hello - We've lost a great deal of money to a company called 2xtreme International. They made large sums of money off a number of people selling "positions" at the top. They were also rude and unreliable. Nor would they take care of any of the problems, such as the expensive postages and mailings they claimed would make us rich in 2 years. 2xtreme is located in Texas and run by John Polk who does infomercials. (One person who was our upline claimed she made $90,000 a MONTH on the infomercial. We know from the company trainer this was'nt true) How do we begin to turn that company in? It was all a scam and they have refused to take back the products they kept sending and refused refunds - period. Can you email where to start writting complaints on this company? Do you know of any other MLM areas on the internet where people can place warnings or leave messages about these types of companies who take advantage of consumers gulibility. Thanks for a reply. I think I'll read your book too. Thanks again.

Place our efforts to expose the injustice and the resulting attacks we have to endure on top of the healing/greiving process and we have a big plate of pasta with sauce. You pull at one little strand of pasta and all the noodles on the other side move and the sauce slops off the plate right onto your favorite blouse. Then you try to get the pasta on your fork and dump more in your lap and slop it all over your face. All right in front of the new date you are attempting to impress.

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply, I really didn't think I would get an answer but thought I would try. That is so nice of you to take the time for a personal reply. Well I spent about 6 hours on the internet and printed out all I sould and gave it to my girlfriend, she saw how much time I put in to it and read it all but---- she is still going to do it- unbelievable but true....She still thinks she can make money and she says she won't buy the tapes, what can I say - I just guess their is a sucker born every day- she says there are people born every day and they need Amway - oh my I think I am getting sick....We saw right through it- if it sounds too good to be true it probably is - that's how I see it and I work too hard for my money to waste it on these products --- I like my Crest toothpaste and Arm and Hammer clothes soap and I will never use a concentrate- I want my windex premixed- I just won't do it and I don't think most people will...

Well anyways i printed out your letter and will give it to ** and see if she might get a clue- can't promise anything but I wll try one more time.....

Thanks again,

Thanks again Ruth have a great week-end and a better life without Amway- so what are you doing now? want to be pen pals ?? If you have the time now and then drop me a line in the islands and let me know what you do and where you live??? Fun to know people all over... I know alot but there is always room for more good friends...

Thanks

As for myself I am a direct distributor operating in 6 countries(Canada,Greece,Italy,South Africa,Spain,And China) and I'm happy with my income from the Amway business because you see I don't spend my time trying to get people to quit things,I spend it helping people. I am extremley happy and have never been so in my entire life. As for Diamonds they make money off the tapes, this is true and not a secret, they do so in there own right because Diamonds are corporation(like myself) and the material on the tapes is copyright. I see you spend alot of time on trashing the Amway opportunity, I'm always open to ideas and have great knowledge on business(I'm currently operating 7 of them). So if you can show me a better way to make $100,000 a year with minimal effort(30 hrs a week) please do so

Part II

I never said I was 100k. All I said was that I'm happy with my income from my business(50k+) because there is no other business where I can make that kind of money working only 30hrs a week. What organization were you in and why did you quit?

Part II

Never mind this is a total waste of my time, but in the future....let people do what theey want to do. If it wasn't for Amway and especially AMO's(which have nothing to do with Amway) I would where I was before the business, heading nowhere fast and that is something that opinions and thoughts from anyone cannot take away from me......The reality and fact of where I was and where I am today and I owe it all to Amway & my upline. Have a good life(I hope you seriously do)

I need to let you know that there is another organization workihg the same system as Amway. here in Canada and it is known as ANC Canada, it stands of All Communications Network, a privately owned company and they,re out of Troy Michigan, as you know Amway is out of Grand Rapids. I beleive there is a connection. The idea is to start your own business selling long distance service (they buy line time from Sprint Canada) and recruit others to do the same (MLM). Money is the bait, a vidio tape is the hook. A friend from work introduced me to it last week. I saw the video and right away wanted to get involved. My friend took me to a BREIFING and relized that we now have another Amway. I,ve been sick ever since. My wife has been affected also (she,s been having nightmares and one night this past week after a nightmare she got up and was sick to her stomich) I can,t sleep, my mind can,t stop thinking of ACN when I wake up the first thing on my mind is ACN. Somehow the vidio tape effects ones mind. After you see the video you want to sign up right away. I got hooked to Amway about 17 years ago. At first I didn,t want anything to do with Amway, but after I had listened to the audio tapes I was hooked. They had me for about a year and a half selling Amway. I finally broke free, after wasting my time, losing my friends and shelling out thousands of dollar to them so I know whats going on. This thing looks too good to be true. Because its new its biulding fast. They,ve been in business for about 6 your in the States (250,000) and the last 3 in Canada (100,000), they are now moving into England. The only thing that keep me out of it was your web page and the letters that people have sent you. As I read the letters it brought back powerful emotions that i haven,'t felt since getting out of Amway, like the cramping in my stomich that i felt when i tryed to introduce a friend to amway and they said no. (rejection). Please let everybody know about this new scam. Sure you can make a lot of money at this but at what price?????? Thank You for the help that you and your web page have given me. I can,t imagine how many lives will be effected by this new CULT!!! This involves telecommunication and I should mention that ACN is now providing internet services.(DANGER)

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Subject: Wellness International Network, Ltd.

Part I

Please advise if you know of this organization or it's founders, Ralph & Kathy Oats. They are located in Carrollton, TX. I have a client that is about to sink $250,000 into this and I'm very skeptical.

Thanking you in advance for any info,

Part II
Thank you for your thoughtful response. Client is still considering, but taking a more cautious approach. I have checked the BBB, FTC, Texas Dept. of Corporations. All report no complaints, however the Texas AG's office does have negative info. They are forwarding the files at which time I'll relay the info.

Again my thanks for a timely response to my inquiry.

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Subject: those bad amway people

Part I

am not an amway distributor. all i want to say is that from my experience, nobody in my upline ever beat over the head with a bible..nor did i buy a position or was told to. we came into amway of our own choice.....wow....we even liked the products. and,by way,i am referring to my experience from 1973 to 1984. just like that magnificent.fun job you so delight in ruuning to at the crack of dawn each monday...amway people are human beings,with their own weaknesses. how very strange that we work for companies that do layoffs,promote idiots to supervisors...and control our lives. we always try to be the victim, so this web site makes perfect sense to me. ther must be a demon somewhere....there he is now popping out of a box of soap there are jews,atheists.and agnostics in amway...too. my upline died 4 yrs. ago..she was someome that,no matter what you think the demon amway is...you would have loved to have her as a friend...kind.thoughtful,not a cruel word about anyone/....BUT times have changed/..via talk show call-ins,nasty electronic modes to spread vicious talk as fact to destroy amway and the crackpots we think belong to it.well,thats enuff....so here is the good news......i came into amway when i felt like it and left when i wanted,too.they even let us go to the bathroom...maybe in1999...we could love all people more,inspire,empower and end fhe cult of destroying.

Part II

Thanks for writing back re Amway. My sponsor was a Diamond as well, I was sharing my experiences of it. Defending??? Not. Now there are more mlm's than ever. I have been in afew that front load and I know their pitch by heart. What's with this BS I hear about stuffing envelopes at home? You registr for thirty $ and make thousands!!!Sure!!!!! You might think I am a bit on the Far Side,but I think colleges and universities are a scam as well. Be- cause....they don't teach people how to think for themselves...but to think only as the professor does or what is PC. That's not paying for a liberal education. I have a degree and my daughter.too. But...she had to learn ,in my view,she has a degree in PC magna cum laude. As we go to 2000...she needs to read Brave New World. Keep up your good work...I sense your care for others. Bye..

I am one of those who have become successful in the business. I have a fairly large directship with directs and emeralds downline. I do understand what happened to you and have no trouble seeing how it could have happened. It hurts me to see people who put in an honest effort fail to overcome what can at times be impossible conditions. What you refer to as the AMO aspect of the business didn't hit me because I saw it from a different perspective. Dexter developed a system rooted in a good purpose, to help more people overcome circumstances of distance, poor self image, lack of experience, etc. As it developed, it became profitable, as should anything which adds value to people's lives. Dexter then, amazingly, chose to share the profits, not just with those in the know, but with directs and above who had already shown an ability and willingness to promote the tools and functions for the right reasons, unaware that they would one day be compensated for the time and energy it takes to run the tool aspect of an organization. After all, when you go to college, no one gives you a profit breakdown for everyone in the book distribution chain. You want to learn the material, you need books. simple. So, I start with the premise that Amway and Yager are good people with good motives. I analyze things from that perspective. I was never forced to do anything in this business. As you yourself know, people quit, your people quit, you couldn't force them to do anything. Success is rare in any field. Often, the best efforts of good people aren't enough . The difference I find in this business is that it doesn't just depend on me, I can draw on the skills and abilities of thousands, each in it for their own reasons, but whose self interest is best served in my success. If I do everything and still fail, I become a liability, I don't buy products, tapes or tickets. Maybe I start a website, how do they win if I don't win. So I believe that they want me to win, so I don't see the various enterprises in support of that outcome as sinister. I do believe that large chunks of cash has had the effect of corrupting the vision and purpose of many leaders, but I don';t have to fall into that trap.. I have a POSSIBILITY of having a life completely designed by me and it is in the process of coming true. We have been in 5 years, fultime for 3. I am sorry for your experience, I don't invalidate it or you. I ask that you recognize mine as valid as well. Not everyone succeeds, not everyone fails. I accept your word that you will not print my name or identifying info. Thanks

I would like to know if anyone has had a bad experience with "US Mortgage Reduction Inc.

I have been told that this suit was very recently dismissed, before the discovery process had even begun. Do you have any information about this?

Thanks.

do you have any info on this particular method - I have a friend recently recruited who now talks like an automaton - I am an ex-cult member (J.W.s) and recognize all of the signs of a new recruit - all I know is it's an MLM personal development program - am searching the net and finding some useful generic stuff but that's all - any help appreciated. MAny thanks - keep it up. Love an peace to you all

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Subject: Sad, really

Part I

You people are silly. To believe that in any business you won't have people abuse the system, is naive. Of course there will be bad apples to spoil the bumch, but come on. To blame Amway for these people's wrongdoings and character flaws is ludicrous. I'm not even in Amway - so you can't say I'm biased. The number of people happy with their Amway businesses, successful and good outweighs the number of people who "screw people." Sour Grapes! is what I say to you if you tried and failed at Amway. By the number of success stories out there, I'd venture to say that you really didn't put forth the effort required.

Part II

While I am not in Amway, I do know several people who are. They joined primarily to buy cars at cost - and believe me, they got FANTASTIC deals. The deals you can get on real estate are also pretty good, too. The other people I know simply live in the country where going to the grocery stores is quite a hike - but now they just get online and order about 80% of their groceries -- delivered to their door. Even her milk!!! (irradiated - cool) I buy cleaning products from one person because they are simply the best products on the market. The SA8 laundry detergent is unequaled and the trizyme detergent boost can get any stain out. I buy these products and do not wish to become an Amway member or whatever. The lady (distributor) asked me if I was interested, I said "no thank you, I just want the products from you ." and she has never asked again... You simply cannot say that everyone in Amway is screwing people. I prefer to live my life looking for the good in people - live and let live.

I'm sorry if I offend you. I was just wanting you to know that some people out there like Amway and that it does some people good. If you can accept that, I guess I can accept that some people don't like it.

Sincerely,

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