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The following posts have been reprinted in their entirety from posts e-mailed by readers of this website, except that headers, names and locations have been removed. These posts express the opinions and experiences of their authors, and this site publisher makes no representations about them in any way whatsoever. Subject: Neways How does the Neways company rate in this mess? I found them on the Internet recently and am curious as to whether their products are as good as they say. You can reach me on the Internet at **** I would appreciate any information on this company. I don't want to become a distributor (I hate MLMs). I just want to know if their products are any good. Someone told me they had already filed for bankruptcy once, but they weren't sure. Have they operated under any other names? Thanks for your help!

I have seen one other post on your site regarding Mannatech. What do you know about this company? I am having their sales message rammed down my throat daily.

Hello - I have really enjoyed your site - I am a soon-to-be-former Amway distributor. However, I am interested in doing something from home. I was with Mary Kay for a while - but - I was wondering if you have ever heard anything bad about Jafra Cosmetics? I am intersested in selling for one of the cosmetics companies - and was wondering if you know anything about Jafra? I certainly don't want to get involved in something like Amway again. I would appreciate any information you may have. Thank you again.

Subject: Weeding Out The Bad Apples

First let me say congratulations on your site for bringing some of the pitfalls of MLM to light. But I must say that (like a lot of things in life) there is good and bad. I've spent the last couple of hours reading horror stories off this site and I feel sorry for all those people who lost small fortunes trying to start a home based business.(to me $500 is a fortune) But I must say that the bulk of the horror stories involve a relatively few number of companies. The point that I am trying to make is that if a person does a little homework before they jump into a business then those businesses that have major pitfalls connected with them can be avoided.

Yes, I am involved with an MLM type company going on four years now. But it is what I would like to refer to as a new generation, direct marketing company. The company, (which I will not name so that for the sake of this letter it won't be construed that I am trying to hype something) took adequate measures to see that whether someone came into the company for a short period of time or for the long haul, that there is no way that they could get financially hurt by their experience. And I can say that in the almost four years with the company that has been the case. By the way my direct upline in this business had a combined 100+ years experience in Amway. One of my upline had made it to Direct (I think that is the correct term) on two separate occasions in 23 years only to have his organization crumble.(so much for the glorious break-aways)

At any rate yes I've heard the horror stories.

In my humble opinion here are some of the things that I would suggest you look for (or look out for) when considering any home based business.

1. Stay away from companies that require you to purchase inventory. (Then It's up to you to sell it.) Note: With direct marketing companies you simply show items in a catalog then the customer orders the products direct from the company. You collect no money(bad checks) you don't deliver anything (who wants to be a delivery service) etc.

2 There shouldn't be any large start up costs or renewal fees (<$50}. Or you shouldn't be able to buy your way into a particular position. (sorry Excel people) Is there a full refund of startup kit if someone bows out in the first couple of months?

3. Find out ahead of time what are the qualifications in order to receive any commissions. Do you get paid for every sale in your business. (That definitely rules out most binary plans)

4. Don't let anyone B.S. you about ground floor opportunities on new startup companies. (95% of companies that fail do so in their first 5 years of operation)

5. Is there absolutely FREE training available? Are training tapes reasonably priced? ($2-$4 max for an audio cassette, $10 max for a video tape) I am also a believer that there should be no commissions paid to upline for the sale of training materials to downline.(sorry Amway people)

6. Are the products the company sells reasonably priced? Another neat trick that I ran across is to go to E-Bay, (the internet auction house) and in their search menu type in the name of a MLM company. If it's a company where people are stuck with inventory or a lot of training materials you'll see the listings pop up. For the most part these are people trying to recover some of the money that they lost.

In conclusion I still contend that if a person does their homework via a little investigation, they can find a potentially worthwhile home based business.

Thanks for your response, and for the research sources. I will start my research as soon as I send this message. Unfortunately, the "sales message" I am getting is from my husband who has bought into this organization hook, line and sinker. He will not listen to reason, and is "selling" to family and friends nonstop. It is a frightening ordeal, almost "cult-like".

I have just become Indepent Rep. for Excell Communications and am eager to get started. Have you heard anything negative about the commpany? Please me at ***

Thanks

Part I

Aloha,

I am a Discovery Toys Consultant. D.T. has been bought out by Avon and another Big Company. D.T. also plans to be advertised on Television. Discovery Toys is up front about their Company from the get-go. Unlike Amway, where they are secretive about their company. D.T. also lets their recruitors know that they are MLM. I am very happy with D.T.'s products on how their toys are educational. D.T. has many honest, integrity conscious consultants.What are your thoughts about Discovery Toys?? Is this company any different or abusive as any MLM company?? I am convicted by this website, and if quitting Discovery Toys is the end result, so be it. Your response will greatly be appreciated. Thank you and God Bless your ministry.

Part II

Aloha!!

I am a Discovery Toys Consultant. Yes, they are MLM. But unlike Amway, Discovery Toys is up front with their whole program. Discovery Toys lets the recruitors know that they sell educational Toys and that they are an MLM company. If Discovery Toys is upfront and honest about everything does this company fall under this severe is heinous definition of MLM?? I really enjoy Discovery Toys. My son has benifitted emensely from these toys. I love representing Discovery Toys, However, the definition of MLM being an organized crime and MLM being "doomed to fail" is not my cup of tea. Please respond to my e-mail as soon as possible. I have been convicted by this whole website and please pray for me and my downline. I haven't abused my downline in any way. I need to know your answer. Discoverytoysinc.com is their website. Thank you again, may the Lord Bless your ministry.

why do not see anything about EXCEL ? GOOD or BAD

Regards,

I becam an Amway distributor a few months ago(6). I think it is great. I read all the negative and positive information that I could find before joining. Once I joined I did my own price comparisons. I researched all the tax advantages I can get. After 3 months of research I was ready to proceed. I work my own system without books and tapes. I do not travel to "functions". I do not have to listen to any one and in the 3 months since I have started to actively build my business I have had great sucess and turned a $1500 dollar profit. I looked at every price list and compared them to local(Atlanta) prices. I only buy items that are less expensive. I also only pay distribitor cost and write off the shipping as a business expense. I only purchase about 100pv/200bv a month. I also compiled alist of pv/bv ratio's and buy the products with the highest bv to pv value. Will each of you please e-mails me with why Amway did not work for you so I can Make sure the way I am doing it will work.

I am interested in any information on the new organization formed between Amway and Bill Gates which is starting Sept 99 per the website http://www.countdown9199.com

What is known about MLM and Bill Gates and Amway?

Part I

I have been thinking about your reply for quite some time now and wondering if I should even bother writing back.

I don't know what you were shown about Melaleuca by the other person. I am not trying to convince you that Melaleuca is not an MLM or a distributorship (which it is not). It is a catalog shopping system that you share. You seem to have included it in your list of SCAMs based upon the fact that it is home based. I am just saying that it is not a SCAM to me. A SCAM would have a hidden purpose in order to get your money under false pretenses and has a dishonest or illegal context to it. I have met people who do not like some Melaleuca products and/or chose not to be a customer before. I have NEVER heard of a person that has been financially harmed by there association with Melaleuca. I would love to hear from such a person, because I believe the company would IMMEDIATLY set the situation straight.

The company is very clear in the "New Horizon" publication about how it works, everyone is a customer and some customers (probably less than 20%) choose to show the catalog to others. The comp plan for sharing is clearly documented and most of us know that there is no get rich quick in any business. Most people use examples that explain the exact income potential that the new customer can make (about $2-3 for everyone they introduce). I do not distribute the products to customers, I am not involved in the payment of commissions to others in Melaleuca. This is all done by the company. I do a one time presention (introduction) of the company and products to the customer. If they like what they see, they sign up and order. Melaleuca takes the order, and Melaleuca pays me the commission.

Based upon what I have read on your site, many people involved with the "SCAM" companies are making all kinds of money from the activities in support of the business builder, such as training and motivational tapes. In Melaleuca there are a few tapes available from the company for training/support. I have been to about some training. Two were held at major hotels in the area and were corporate sponsered session with members of the Executive Leadership Counsel. This means that the event was about a 21/2 hour session and cost to me was $0.00. Sometimes, our support line makes separate arrangements for one of the Exective Directors to come and train. The typical 1/2 day training from one of the best costs us $5.oo (to off set the cost of the room). I also decided to attend Melaleuca University, a day and a half intensive training on all aspects of enrolling customers @ the outrageous price of $29.00.

Another point from the SCAM companies was that they have to get the new (least knowledgable) people out there. When a new business builder comes into Melaleuca, he/she is strongly encouraged not to try to make any presentations on their own. We try to get the enroller to go with you on the first presentations (usually at least 2, preferably 8), until you are familiar with the company and products. The new customer will not have the product knowledge or training to attempt this on their own and we would be setting them up for failure if we do not support them. (THERE IS NO COST FOR THIS SUPPORT.)

Since everything you buy through the company is 100% refundable, there is no risk. The mission statement says it all: "Enhancing the lives we touch by helping them reach their goals."

I am currently a Director with 14 customers. I didn't get there fast and I am not making boat loads of money. I am slowing building a business, while continuing with my job. By listing Melaleuca businesses in you site as a scam, you make that business much more difficult for me.

Part II

As I said, I am not trying to convince you of MLM or not, my main issue is whether this a SCAM or not. A scam is a shady deal and may be against the law. It is wrong to list Melaleuca on your site as a SCAM without any facts to back up what is shady about it. I do not believe that it should be classed as a scam simply because there is not an individual store front associated with it.

I guess this is why Melaleuca won the Chamber of Commerse Blue Chip award for doing business under adverse conditions!

Hi Sir,

Thanks for all this truly amazing insightful info. A friend of mine was asking me about amway and now ,with the help of this site I can show himhow to research it, thanks. I got involved with a company called Usana and I`m very happy.I was wondering if you would be so kind as to scrutinize this opportunity for me.

Thank you very much for your time

Sincerely,

Dear Ruth:

Just a note to say that your link to msnbc regarding Amway's downturn seems to not be valid. I wonder if it has something to do with the fact that www.quixtar.com (Amway's e-commerce site) is allegedly in bed with Billy the Gates??? Food for thought. A question for you- I contacted Sidney about this topic but he didn't have much info. Have you ever heard of a group of elite Amway distributors called the "Black Hats"? I would appreciate it if you had something. Thank you for your consideration.

The truth is out there......................................

Does anyone have previous experience with Shaklee? Thanks.

It's difficult to read the information given from the sources who've experienced the amway "way" of doing business. I feel their pain. As much as I now know that the upline's "way" of doing business is apart from amway, I feel very strongly that the humanitary that amway conveys is not being excercised by putting a stop to it. The "package" that amway and internet has put together at every seminar we went to is very clever. I, my husband, my children have lost money..., incl. college fund ...I actually told my directs and emeralds this as I was doing it...too embarassed to say how much, and valuable precious precious time. My children are now 16 and 12, we started over 4 years ago. What hurts tremendously is that we sold our children that amway was the 'way' for most of the time we were involved, although, they saw my husband and I fight continuously most of the time we were in. It didn't help our upline saying we were not doing it right and that we weren't commited enough, or that my husband would not look at the debts that were acumilating rapidly. I so always wanted to direct my attention to my children and encourage them towards their hopes, hopefully our involvement in amway haven't fogged their innerstrengths towards their future. I think back how it must of hurt and made them insecure when mom and dad were constantly argumentive about what eventually became everything..which looking back was amway and money and for me was time with my children. i have let them know that we were taken in by a cult and we are no longer in it. My children are so realieved and I believe although dissapointed, confused and perhaps embarassed by what they were telling their friends about becoming 'diamonds', they are happy to have us back home and see that we have the strength to believe in ourselves and not give up on what we want for ourselves and most of all them. What a big wonderful world they have to do what ever makes them happy and successful if they wish it in any 'way' they 'plan'. As for my husband and I ..we may not make it..it hurts terribly..because I think that is something we may never be able to give our children..and it's all they really wanted, us to be a family..we use to have it over 4 years ago. I cry everyday, although less and less for what could of been. I miss have not been with my babies most of all. I'm sharing this letter so that other amway parents read it after or before they become involved in their upline's cult. .. selling tools and telling your children when they inherit the "business" that they make money from others who 'quit'. it's a cult and it's very expensive to belong. It's not about friendships it;s about money. My children now know without a doubt I'm here for them even though I'm working. I plan my "career" around raising and being there for my children. They don't need to be frighten or alone, I'm here. I have learned about strength and love and forgiveness from them. I'm writing this for any parent(s) that are feeling what I'm feeling. I hope my children and other children knowing this is as great us being recognized on the stage as diamond children. I know that the world recognize them as being 'brilliant' and the best parents could ever hope for. I've been told by teachers, relatives and friends how great they are. If these people only knew....

Do you have any information on Big Planet or NUSKIN? Please copy me and *** on your response.

Thank you in advance.

I've been in contact with some Amway people...and they want to sign me up ........and get me started in the business.My question is ..Can I Just buy the products,without all the tapes,books,and meetings?? Is it worth my time and effort . Also what questions should I be asking these people??

Thanks

i had just recieved a letter when i tried to order the cash flow system that they were no longer in business and was in prison, i read your article and still don't understand why he was in trouble and convicted. All he did was sell how to books, right?

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This page updated Apr-26-99