The following posts have been reprinted in their entirety from posts e-mailed by readers of this website, except that headers, names and locations have been removed. These posts express the opinions and experiences of their authors, and this site publisher makes no representations about them in any way whatsoever.
Obviously Misinformed
I came across your home page and following pages about the Amway business and the opportunity. I did find many things interesting but came away with questions of my own about your motivation.
Why would someone who had such a bad experience with this business bother to spend his time, and thus his potential to earn money, on informing the public about you opinions?
Why would someone who obviously, was looking for a business opportunity or other income options, not spend his time and effort doing so in another potentially lucrative opportunity like Excel or other home based businesses?
Why would someone blame a company or individuals who simply have made an opportunity available to earn a secondary or primary income replacement, rather than admit he jsut wasnt willing to look at the opportunity as just that, an opportunity, and work the plan or not work the plan?
If someone has a job, as we know the majority of people do work for someone else, why dont they go to their employer and tell him they are tired of working for wholesale pay so the employer can resell their efforts at retail, and then try to keep that job after you confront the boss with the truth?
I believe everyone has the opportunity to speak his or her mind as long as it is truthful and does not hurt other people. That is, as long as he or she is certain that they have done the "right thing". I am a new Amway distributor and believe that I can either help the other companies that sell stuff become more and more wealthy, or I can be involved in my own business and have the opportunity, not the promise, of making an income from my own efforts. Thats it.
Please reply if you choose to. I am not putting you down for your page,Please dont misinterpret my e-mail. I believe you ahve a right to say what you think, as long as you dont dash the hopes of many of us who are simply looking for an opportunity to get out of the job rut. I asked to be shown this business, no one approached me. I have invested $800000 in a conventional business before and worked my brains out only to see it fail so I believe I will have to invest both time and money to have another opportunity to be my own boss someday and earn a decent living by helping others do the same.
obviously misinformed part II
Thanks for the reply and comtinued success in your other endevors. I do have my eyes open to this potential abuse of a good business oportunity and I thank you for that.
Thank You
Hi, Thank you for getting back to us. I have to tell you that they had a comeback for everything dealing with Amway. The gentleman laughed that there was information on the internet. He said that if you don't work at it you really won't get anywhere, so of course there are going to be people who won't make it. I questioned him about maybe having to step back in and recruit people after you've so called retired. he said that is why you make a strong leg (pyramid). They also said that while their prices may be high they last a long time. It was interesting to that at the beginning of the conversation the gentleman faced towards me. As I kept questioning him he physically turned towards my husband, who was being quite nice to them. This guy is definately a scammer. He and his wife presented themselves quite well and were an attractive couple. The wife said that she makes more then her husband, but is doing it full time.
Needless to say we kicked them to the curb!!!!
Thanks agian,
Save me
Thanks for the stuff, mate.
I recently found a really interesting site called The Amway Files. This is a UK site and IBS is mentioned a lot although there is no mention of any religious reasons behind leaving. I also spoke to someone who is a member of the Yeager group in the UK and life didn't seem to different there.
I'm gonna print out some of the IBS stuff and see what my upline says. I think I'm also gonna attend one of these mega conferences (as I've been invited). After all, seeing is believing.......
I'll let u know what happended.
Good Job!
I just discovered your site this morning. Every couple of months I cruise around on the web looking for anti-Amway sites and I really enjoyed yours. Your correspondents appear to be very thoughtful, intelligent folks who sound very credible to me. My significant other and I were in Amway (he for the second time) for only a year. I can't believe I was so gullible, but I fell hook, line and sinker! We attended Family Reunion as our first function when we had been in less than a month. My first impression? It's a cult!
We went the whole route: tape of the week, book of the month, and Amvox (my personal favorite - NOT). I'm ashamed to admit that I cried listening to the stories on some of the tapes. I started suspecting the motives and "goodness." I don't remember whose tape it was, but the whole tape was about his attending his high school reunion and driving there in his H-U-G-E motor home and parking it in front of the place where the reunion was being held. He apparently attended the reunion to deride and ridicule all those in his home town who hadn't joined his business and said no to Amway. I guess this is the maturity that Dexter Yeager speaks of. The final straw for me was being told what my political and religious beliefs should be. No, thank you.
Speaking of Dexter Yeager, my personal feeling is that he is a greedy little man who has corrupted a business that could potentially be a great one. The Amway products are good and the plan to sell the products is a good one. It sounds like most of your readers agree and the problem is not with the Amway Corporation, but with the independent tool businesses that have become parasites sucking the goodness out of Amway.
If I sound bitter, it's because I am. You see, I lost something more than money to Amway. I've lost my son to it. He joined when he was 17; he is soon to be 24. Has he made any money? No. Does he have a downline? No. Why does he stay in? If he doesn't stay in, he won't have a relationship with his father. Sad? You bet. His father has been in for years and Amway is all that they have in common. My son became engaged and planned on a two year engagement. After one year, his upline emerald "counseled" him to go ahead and get married now, why wait! So giving us one month to plan a wedding, that's what he did. After one year, they are now having marital problems; one of the reasons he said is that "they didn't know each other well enough."
All of my son's spare time (which he has very little of) is devoted to Amway. We see him seldom because when he has time off, he is either attending a function (spending money he doesn't have) or soaking up more propaganda from his father. He has gone into debt to portray the lifestyle of the rich and famous, that his grandmother mortgage her house to bail him out.
He won't get out and for every negative thing I show him about Amway, he has a response. Notice I didn't say he has an answer. Amway people don't have any answers, just pre-programmed responses.
Sorry for dragging this on for so long. For those of you, who are still in but thinking about getting out: I know you're thinking to yourselves "But what if it really works?" I thought the same thing. Look at the statistics on the other web sites. It works but only for a few people and we probably aren't one of them. It's a huge relief to get out. You are not a loser; you are not a quitter; your are not a negative person. You just trusted people whose job it is to make you trust them. So get out while you can and don't look back. THERE IS LIFE AFTER AMWAY!!!!!
Thanks.
Re: Good Job!
Thanks for the encouragement. I should know better, but I can't resist making negative comments to my son and I know that only aggravates him more. He's determined to prove that he can make it in Amway. He, like many others, doesn't see any need to go to college because in less than five years he's going to be rich anyway! He won't have to worry about advancing in the world of J-O-B-S because he won't need one! I admire his tenaciousness but wish he would apply it in other directions.
Thank you for the book suggestions. [I had recommended two books to her: False Profits by Fitzpatrick and Reynolds, and Combatting Cult Mind Control by Steve Hassan.] If I could only get my son to read them. I've printed stuff off the Internet but I think he read them and turned them over to his "upline." Just gives them more ammunition about all the negative losers.
I really like your website. You keep up the good work, too!
Been a Bridesmaid Never a Bride
Hi there. I've been fortunate in that I've never been sucked into the Amway "family". My skin starts crawling and my little voice starts screaming at me to run, not walk, run the other way.
I have been approached numerous times by friends and strangers alike on the "great business opportunity". The stranger story is interesting in that the woman who approached me in the grocery store and keyed in on my interest, my little daughter, who is now my oldest daughter. She knew nothing more than my name and looked me up in the phone book and called me at home. I was taken aback w/ this, in that I had never really seen what lengths these automatons go to in order to recruit new "members". I told her I'd think about it. I had talked to a coworker and friend of mine who'd been through this and this one was not called Amway, it was called the Miller Corporation (waddle waddle quack quack). Ms. Mind Numbed called back and I told her I'd done some research on the Miller Corporation and I thought it'd be best if we both politely went our own ways. She said "fine, good luck in your endeavors". The tone, however was very acidic and sarcastic. These people don't like to be told no, and I know why. When you tell these mind numbed robots no, you're telling them that this is a scam. You're telling them that "the emperor's naked". They know inside, in that tiny little corner of themselves that they just can't lie to that you're doing the right thing and they (the robot) have bought into a lie, yet they can't let go of it. They don't want to believe that they've allowed themselves to be lied to and led down the primrose path. Also, they've got a great deal of credibility tied up in this, and to admit otherwise would be to destroy their credibility. These people don't believe that old saying "if it sounds too good to be true, it is" and "there's no such thing as a free lunch".
The last time I was approached, was late summer of 1996 by a friend I've had since freshman year of high school (Aug., 1976). My wife and I have been dealing w/ some financial difficulty for some time and I was talking to him about it. He called a few days later, and wanted to visit. He showed up by himself, and that was strange. He and his wife usually come to visit together and we go over there together. He came in and brought his brief case. Then the moment of truth. Here comes the video tape talking about home based businesses. Then the Amway personal shoppers catalog. I was flabbergasted to say the least. He left it with me and wanted me to think about it.
Needless to say, I didn't want to even confront him with this. I packaged up the crap and express mailed it to his office. He called me that Saturday and left a voice mail w/ such a guilt trip bend to it, that I as a Catholic could really appreciate. Another friend of mine listened to the message and said it sounded to him like he was reading it from a script. The Amway friend is an attorney and he is skilled at making closing arguments. He even went so far as to tell me that he'd not been this hurt since his high school girlfriend left him and that if I didn't want to go into business with him, that was fine, I just shouldn't have done it like this w/out even letting him listen to my arguments against. That's one of the key words, you can't argue intellectually w/ these people. Yet, they don't have answers for your questions, except to answer w/ more questions.
My wife stepped in and mediated a settlement to the dispute, because she knew that I was ready to start w/ the verbal nuclear missiles. Well the story does have an interesting if not a happy ending.
About a week and a half later, I was waiting for my database class to begin, as I was working on my second bachelors degree, when the Amway robot's younger brother walked by. He was at the University of ** working on a Masters in Liberal Arts, and his name is L**. L** and I exchanged hand shakes and pleasantries and were talking when L** broached the subject. I got real quiet and my eyes went black and became slits. L** calmed me down and told me not to worry, he wasn't into that. He said that S** had been leaving this crap around the office and when L** confronted him about it, a shouting match ensued and it almost came to physical blows and their mother had to step in and break it up. L*** makes my hatred for this crap seem mild, and that's saying something.
L** searched the web and found several sites. I'm assuming that Sidney Schwartz's site was one of them, and presented the data to S**. Also, S**'s brothers, who are his business partners in their law firm told him to cease and desist. It has never been mentioned again by S**. The thing that amazed me about this one is S** is an attorney w/ a successful practice in partnership w/ his brothers. St**'s wife is a CPA w/ a successful consulting business. Why seemingly intelligent and educated people like this would buy into this thing is beyond me.
We have remained friends, but I now keep an eye out looking for any tricks, as I don't know whether they are still into this or not. This Amway encounter w/ S** left me feeling angry and violated. You feel used. I think more than anything, what leaves you feeling that way is the fact that this crap has to be snuck in on you. What is it w/ this stuff that these people can't tell you what they're up to? If anyone has any answers, please let me know. I think I know and I'll take a stab at it. They know that this isn't going to work. I honestly believe that they are somewhat embarrassed by what they are doing. If it is so great and so honest, why be embarrassed and sneaky? Most people I know who are self employed are proud of what they do and don't sneak around doing it.
Well, that is my story and I wanted to put it out on the net. I'm not too worried about these people seeing it. If they do and don't like it, then maybe they shouldn't be in Amway. Let me leave you with what another friend of mine has to say about Amway. Amway, the stamp of white trash.
I want to applaud you on your site. Keep spreading the truth. Satan can't stand the truth and these people operate very much as I see Satan operating.
Also, have you ever noticed that when you're approached, the quality of the products or service is never mentioned? They only talk about how rich you'll get. They appeal to the baser instincts of mankind. This one of greed and lust for power.
Thank you.
Interesting
Interesting site. I agree with you that Amway may not be the best opportunity when it comes to network marketing. However, there are many reputable companies out there with many reps and distributors doing anywhere from fair to midland.
No one puts a gun to these peoples' heads to spend their money foolishly on motivational products. In my opinion, if they are not self-motivated, they should not have tried to start their own business in the first place. Mind control might be a little strong, but I do know several Amway people who seem to be gluttons for punishment. But MLM is not inherently bad, immoral, or wrong. One might parallel your observations to that of Corporate America.
At any rate, your site is interesting and informative. It gives potential MLMers a way to look at all the angles. As you probably realize, I am involved in network marketing. However, I also have owned my own sporting goods business for most of my adult life, so I feel I can say that networking is truly an exciting concept for people who are fed up with Corporate. Granted, most people will not attain the top status in my company. I myself am far from it. However, I am no farther from the top here than my priest is from eventually being the Pope. Or the than my mail carrier is from being the Postmaster General.
In my opinion, it doesn't matter what kind of structure one works within. They are all "pyramid-shaped" with little room at the top. There just seems to be fewer roadblocks(discrimination, nepotism, etc.) with MLM than within IBM or whatever.
I think one problem is that Amway "sells' these people a dream. Nothing wrong there. But if they want to think big, they have to act big by treating their MLM as a business, not a $130 crap-shoot. In my opinion, new MLMers need to focus on first making a few hundred extra dollars a month. Grow from there.
The last thing I will do before sponsoring anyone from now on is to send them to this website, because I think it does have some valuable information. I think this could become an excellent weeding out tool. And it's free! No need to worry about accusations of earning money outside the scope of my business.
MLM survivor
Hello, Just thought I would say Thanks for putting up your page! I too, lost an 11-year marriage, house, and thousands being a "winner", being on the "10 steps to success", helping "other people to succeed", you know the mantra.
I am a single mother, but no chance of re-uniting with my ex (the man I left because he wasn't Diamond material) as he has since remarried to a girl who doesn't expect him to STP or listen to tapes or read books. After my sponsors and I came across Sydney's site, with it's listing of "Cult Style" tactics that Amway uses, I felt like I had been punched in the stomach... over 5 1/2 years of programming, lies, and deceptions hit me like a ton of bricks. Even after a year "out of the System", I can find myself repeating (In my head) the trite slogans and "love bombing" phrases, and just wanted to encourage you with your Site. We need more and more survivors to speak out and prevent others from being sucked into this pit... Worse than anything else, it degrades and corrupts the very things that most people are looking for: A Belief in Almighty God A Belief in their country and patriotism A Belief in themselves and their family's love and concern
So many people are looking for "meaning in their life" or even a reason for existence, or a desire to Belong. They "sign up", maybe just hoping that this thing could help them financially or even bring them into contact with others who want the same things in life; only to find after countless thousands of dollars and/or years of their life that the "wonderful people" who cared so much for their success just wanted their "tool" dollars. That precious small amount of disposable income that I shelled out, believing their cries of " you gotta spend money to make money" and "This is not an expense, this is an investment in your future!" I sold my computers, my furniture, even pawned what little jewelry I had so that I did whatever they told me to do to become successful--after all, "What do you want out of this business - and what are you willing to sacrifice in order to get it"
Unfortunately for me, I sacrificed the things in life that I really wanted,( a happy marriage, a modest but nice home, vacations with my spouse,etc) for what Amway and the System convinced me I HAD TO HAVE!!! I was not happy with the blessings the Lord had given me - but allowed myself to be consumed by Greed.
I'm sorry, just had to vent. I still get so angry sometimes, not just with the "Amway wolves masquerading as lambs," but with my own naivete in believing in the basic goodness of people. Once again, thanks for helping spread the word, and please keep it going. If collectively "we" can spare at least one person or one marriage, it will all be worth it.
Take care and God Bless,
I was scammed
[Following is a three-part message from a former distributor who tried to return tapes to his upline. It has been two months since he originally posted, and he still has seen no results. This would appear to be in violation of Amway's own rules as outlined in the Business Compendium and other places. . .]
"Tools buy them and succeed. If your not where you want to be you have not absorbed enough information from the tools" ever heard that one? We were in for 4 years and beleivers. Know how much money we spent? I am not one of those people who bought tools and that is it. I was out showing the plan and sponsoring up! But in the end we were the losers. We lost financially, Time and almost a marriage. I love that one " the problems you have now are not a result of the business" yeah right as I look back now that was a crock.
Over the past 9 months I have tried to recoop some of the tool money In fact only $600 dollars worth. But this is what I could gather together of unused unopened tools. I totaled it up and called interNet. They said no problem we will take them back, but what is your "number"? Number I dont have one. Just call your direct they will have one and take care of it. I followed this advice after a conversation and delivery of these tools, one month at least later I get a call saying they are unable to return the tools because it would be to disruptive and cause to much of a problem. they said they would sell them though. I did not care what happened to them as long as I was reimbursed. After 6 months i was $68.00 out of $600.00. Can you believe it? I want to take action and do not know where to turn. I signed nothing that said I would accept these tools and I have never heard of not being able to return a product, especially one in good condition. I think the thing that really gets me is that my direct showed me his tool bonus check and his product check. Care to guess which was bigger???? What I do not understand is why? Why couldnt he just return the tools? I know there is a huge pride and ego thing on the line I learned that in my 4 years. One was never to return tools just move them to someone else. Thanks for listening. Can you help me ??? email address interNET or GH*** OR Dexter Yager or ED** anything Thanks
I was scammed Part II
Thanks for responding so fast and with some good ideas. I am not sure where I got your address from because I just went looking for whatever I could find. I told my story in bits and pieces to a couple of addresses, trying to get some results. It is just not fair. I bought into it. The reason we got out was because of the tool system worked. When I started questioning and trying to get some refunds, we were turned away. Black balled. No one will speak to us, not even people we were really close to. My upline diamond was GH**, then ED***, then DS***. I know there are others in there but these are the key players.
I was scammed Part III
Thanks for following up. Since our last conversation I have gotten the ear of a Diamond and the Amway Corp. Once I did that my Direct has tried to buy my silence for $100 out of $600......He still does not get it.
He denies any knowledge of how to return any tools to InterNET. Oh yeah no one in his upline which takes us up to TB*** [a Diamond personally sponsored by Dexter Yager!!!!] knows how to return tools either. I just can not believe it they say they are your friend but as soon as you stop forget it.
I will keep u posted but check in from time to time. Thanks
Hi,
Please send me more facts and figures about the $$$ side of the tools business. I have always thought the business to operate unethically, but I would enjoy learning more about this particular subject. I appreciate your help, thanks for your time.
Dexter Yeager
Even as an active distributor with a considerable non-direct business, I find Dexter Yeager to be an odious figure in the world of Amway. Unfortunately, my organization is part of what I call the "Yeager bubble" even though the senior leadership goes to considerable lengths to disguise this connection.
AmWay Tools
I too am one of the people who got suckered and is sitting with about 80 tapes, or $560.00 of subliminal bulls**t. I got into the business (look I even call it "the business") early this year, and I am just glad I saw the light before I got too involved. I am one who also strongly believes that the AmWay Corp. itself is good, but that the WWDB and the other organization are quite corrupt. Thanks for putting up your site, I will direct any people who ask me questions about the business to your web site.
Amway
Hello, After reading some of the e-mails on your web site, I feel that I should myself contribute my thoughts. My wife and I have been contacted by acquaintances about Amway. We were nearly convinced that this was a real business opportunity for us (I'm retired and my wife will be in 4 years). On the first meeting, it took an hour before the word "Amway" was mentioned. Right then, doubts started to creep in. But, well...this was, according to these people, the opportunity of a life time. So we met a second time extensive 2-hour meetings) and they knew how to skirt our questions. THEN, I decided to go on the web and logged AMWAY.I just wanted to get more info. And I did get a lot. Especially the other side of the coin. I'm so happy that I did inquire, because we were about to say YES. Ten years ago, we invested in real estate (co-ownnerships) we thought that would be a concrete way to save for our retirement. We lost everything ($50,000) because of the market failure. Had I then done the same research, things would probably have been different. With Amway, the "loser" attitude is real...we feel that we are not opportunists...we'll never get rich...that's what they say...but that does not warrant stepping into this world of deceit.
I feel now that we are not alone in "seeing the light". Fortunately. Thank YOU.
Following is a lengthy, four-part message. The writer is a fast learner!
I was just looking at this original message you sent to me way back when. Pardon me for my English. I have doing a lot of thinking, and I wanted to get your opinion on something. I think I am finally realizing what it is you have been, or did tell me. You see, a few months ago I came across someone who use to be in Amway, in fact, he used to be an Emerald. . .until he lost his business. He doesn't like to get into it with me, but it is something that bothers him to no end. Among so many things he told me about the organization he associated with, he told me that besides earning most of their money from selling tapes, they also made money off of their OPEN meetings. This, I never knew, as has begun to bother me since you mentioned it again.
I have been an Amway distributor for a year and a half now, a part of ** organization in Detroit, a subset of the Rhino organization. I have pursued this business with much passion, but have found it difficult to put my whole heart into it, because I have an even stronger passion for coaching and teaching young kids. I could never get myself into looking at cars, homes, vacations, etc. . .I would love to have these things, but as I was told by my upline, it is good to know about them because sometimes they are other people's dreams. My dream has always been, since the first time I saw "the plan," I want to coach and work with children, young and old.
As I think about, I don't see, and you can correct me if I am wrong, I don't see Amway as the "bad guy" here. I don't even see the distributor organizations as bad, they simply just believe in what they do. Of course, I also once heard, if you tell a lie long enough, you will believe its true. Anyhow, my knowledge of Amway is that they sell products, mostly soap products, makeup (or Artistry), and vitamins (Nutralite). They began as salesmen, and most of their business continues in this manner today.
Do you think that the idea of network marketing, and how it has evolved, took Amway by surprise? What I mean is, when they started making a lot of money in the mid-80's, that the growth was so enormous it got out of control. . .I mean to say, in the end, they made SO MUCH MONEY they would never turn it down, and have since learned to live with it. Am I on the right track?
Anyway, it is something I have been thinking about. I do believe the Amway leaders, and I am speaking of DeVos and Van Andel, are good men. It seems as if it would be hard for them to control 2 million distributors and all their actions. I don't know, I thought--maybe--you could clear this thought process up for me.
Part II
Hi again, since we last spoke, yes, I have done a lot of thinking. My best summation is this at this point. I have chosen to set Amway aside and focus on my coaching career. I will still apply the hard working and people principles that I have learned in that last year and a half, but with a new perspective. I am of the firm conviction that to have what we want to have in life, we must be willing to do a few things. 1) work hard--there is no substitute. If you cannot do this. . .2) to be and do the best you can at the task you are given 3) to do what you love, and love what you do--and 4) to care about people; young people, old people, rich people, poor people, ambitious people, and lazy people. There are enough people out there hurting, we don't need to call them cows, and then with open arms invite them into a business.
I have done a lot of reading at the website you pointed me too. [I directed him to the former site of Sidney Schartz, Amway: The Untold Story which is now available at The AUS Mirror Site and Combatting Cult Mind Control] Much of the reading material is familiar, I am very aware of how a distributor organization acts when it is together. Some of the comments seem made from hurt feelings, which is understandable, but with a new perspective, a positive one, they can take their Amway experience and learn something. Life is a choice, and we should always maintain that choice, regardless of the things we hear and the things we see.
I have always felt a little uncomfortable during our distributor functions. . .my upline direct said I might be justifying my decision to stop building. . .however, I think that I was just out of my environment. I belong on the basketball court and the soccer field, working with kids. Sometimes the songs, cheers, and little sideline quotes of "man I'm excited, aren't you?" and the evangelism made me feel out of place. At a recent leadership conference in Chicago I can recall sitting through an hour and a half of Lennon Ledbetter's speech. He had a lot of good things to say, but man, it went for a Looooooooong time. Not a real problem with that, but sometimes, I wonder if these guys just like to talk. Also at that conference, Jim Pare admitted to feeling like a fake doing all of his speaking engagements. I credited him for admitting that, but then I wondered, if he felt he was a fake at diamond while speaking, then what about the newcomers who were hearing him for the first time?
If in my life I have financial problem it will be because I have not taken care of my money. My upline reminded me why I originally wanted to build the business, because I worked for the Michigan Basketball team for four years and saw the lifestyle D-1 coaches go through, so I JUSTIFIED quitting that dream for Amway. Now I realize that I have always been ambitious, my dream has always been to fight the struggle of coaching, to be different, just not through Amway. So I have learned something.
My upline was very courteous, asking me to continue to encourage my downline's dreams, which I would always do. . .with one asterix, that they make sure they are doing what they are doing for the RIGHT reasons, and not because someone has told them it was. We should make our own decisions in life, not because our friends, teachers, upline, downline, sideline told us so.
Part of me feels sad, sometimes I miss the relationships I built, but for the most part I can see what happens when you begin in Amway. Sometimes, you almost become too positive, too convicted, surpassing a line that shouldn't have been crossed. . .one where your opinion is no longer your own, but that of a tape. Diamonds and downline regularly admit to this, which I guess is okay, as long as you believe in what they believe.
I want to research more into Amway. As a coach, and as I pursue a master's in sports psychology, I am interested in what and how people are motivated. This reading material about tapes and functions is interesting. I know I have written much, it might be hard to respond to it all, but I would appreciate your time.
What do you perceive to be the future of Amway organizations? Will they be cleaned up? I feel as if someone should make themselves accountable, I've seen too many forlong eyes in Amway crowds. I don't necessarily want to see Amway disappear, they just need to make a firm commitment to HOW they want their business built.
Quick question: if you receive a $6 check after spending $200 in Amway products, why don't you receive any money when you spend money on tools? Would that make it more fair? Or would that make it more illegal? Just wondering.
take care, and warmest regards,
Part III
Hi again, was waiting for your reply to my most recent e-mail. A few more questions came to mind as I have done more researching.
1) The ten customer rule. For some reason I never looked at it in the SA-4400, nor was it ever told to me that it is the rule. No one can receive a performance bonus without doing this. Why is this? If my thinking is correct, if the distributors merely consume their own products and do not sell anything, does this make Amway a pyramid?
My first thought after reading about the ten customer rule [The Ten Customer Rule, which has recently been modified to the 50 PV Rule, stated that a distributor was not eligible to receive a performance bonus unless he had sold product to 10 customers that month. The rule has never been enforced in any way that we are aware of, and many AMOs dismiss it as something that the "retail groups" in Amway have to pay attention to, but our group doesn't. . .] was. . .back when the upline kicked off HSD, [HSD stands for Home Shopping Delivered. This is a new program, introduced widely throughout North American Amway in March of 1997. The HSD program is based on signing customers and downline distributors up for an automatic ordering system. Each month, there order is automatically placed and billed to their credit card.] there was a big promotion for quick start, signing up 9 people on HSD, and yourself (10 customers). Hmmm.
Secondly, it really doesn't make sense to buy books from your own business, unless someone is earning profit from it. They could make a reference list, which there is, and simply buy the books from the bookstore at a cheaper price, considering the shipping costs, etc. The objection to this point has always been, a person will be more likely to read a book from his own business, or listen to a tape in his hand, than if he were to go out and actually buy it. But than, everyone is on their own when it comes to showing the plan, and no one keeps track of the plans shown. It doesn't matter the number of plans shown, but the number of people in seats.
Another thought: for all the talk about goal setting, the process in the business is amateur at best, and perhaps this is why distributors have so much trouble. A lot of books are referenced too, but it takes a lot of planning and thinking to build any sales business. But perhaps they can't take the time to do this, or you are supposed to do it with your upline, but even they may be amateurs, and not necessarily know the best way to set goals. And I don't mean Amway goals, I mean life goals!
Finally, where in the Amway literature does it say that if you do not participate in the SOT program you cannot receive profits from your downlines business, or your own? I can't find it anywhere, and now I am wondering why wouldn't someone be upset with this. If it is a sales business, first and foremost, the SOT, BOM, S & R program is designed simply to keep the machine running. But as I feel now, even THE SYSTEM cannot sit down with you and map out a plan for your life. Even if you sit down with your upline, they are more inclined to have you set your goals around the amway business, instead of where your heart may really be. . .as for me, coaching.
For all the praise we heap upon the athletes, singers, boxers, comedians at functions, why do Amway distributors (for the most part) forget that they can be successful at something outside of Amway, without the tapes, with themselves and their family, with their mind open.
I am writing a lot, and I am sure, after reading many of your e-mail comments that have been published, you have a lot to read. . .but please, I need some of these questions answered. My last question is this. . .when thinking about the reason for 4 functions a year, I was always of the opinion that it was to sharpen your mind, to recollect yourself and motivate your business. But then I thought, when are the most tools bought. . .during the functions! I always consumed more at a function than I did in the time in between. The excitement was so high, the pressure to build so extraordinary. And as I think about it, all motivational speeches are fleeting. I know, I'm a coach. They work best right before a big moment, a big play, etc. Couldn't Amway organizations go to one function a year, one meeting a month, and the month or two preceding the big funcion, promote like hell. Go to weekly meetings, 4 a month, a S&R, all to promote this biggest function of the year. And then when it is over, build your sales business, meeting once a month.
Of course, this wouldn't work, because the business is dependent upon excitement of new people, and finally, money. It's a machine, an incredible machine that can't stop. But I think it's gotten out of hand, too many people with too many opinions floating around. Too many people out there with their own vision of the business telling people too many things. It has lost control in the united states.
It makes me sad. Amway has done more good for more people than perhaps most businesses, but it has also gained the worst reputation. Somewhere in between, I believe, is the true Amway.
I have heard that HSD has ruined some Diamonds businesses, because their business became strictly sales. . .but that's what Amway is, a product and sales business. Man, it's just so confusing, and perhaps again, that is why I am stepping aside. . .so many things in there, so much junk I never knew and was told not to worry about, if you accept it you will be successful. Which is true, but you don't know what it is your accepting. When you do something without knowing the consequences, well, that's not exactly right.
Why are our diamonds flying out to India to build out there, they could spend less money going and helping the people who have shown their commitment to them, showing up at all their meetings, listening and reading and getting their butt kicked in the field, their head slapped silly and never understanding why someone slams the door in your face. "They just don't understand!" you are told. No, we don't understand, because apparently something happened in the past to this person, and now we face the consequences.
I don't know, right now, I'm still thinking, thanks for your time and response,
warmest regards,
Part IV
Hello again, thanks for your response. I saw last night that the website [Amway: The Untold Story, see above] has been closed, or shut down because of a legal suit. However, I did find other links and have somehow been drawn into all that I've read. I must admit, I am always skeptical when I read anything, but almost everything I have read seems so familiar.
I remember my first contact, by phone from my Direct. I mentioned he knew me from someone I coached with, no one I knew, but I said I'll listen anyhow. I did, I saw the plan, got excited and started showing the plan, mind you, I had no clue what I was doing. Any of this sound familiar?
When I look back, I would like to think that everything I listened to and did was for goodness, which some of it was, but one thing doesn't sit right. Once you get in, then you find out about all the costs of being core, which I accepted because I wanted to succeed, and then you find out about all the functions, meetings, and seminars. You discover that you might have to build an out of town group, in fact, you should, because you make all your mistakes in town. But, I didn't learn this until after the fact. Soon, I gave up a little of my coaching career, which hurt, but I could coach when I was free. But then I thought, all these meetings are at night, all the seminars on the weekend. Even at a high pin level, I couldn't coach the way I wanted. I would have to rearrange my schedule around the business. So I did. As a STUDENT teacher I would arrive at the school, 7am. Teach all day until 2:15. Tutor at 2:30-3:00. Freshmen Soccer practice from 3:30 6:00, girls soccer from 6:00-7:30. . .drive an hour to a meeting, get home between 12 and 2am, depending on the amount of association you do. You get the point, and you know I was told that it was all for the dream, a big dream, and at 21 years old, I was further ahead than anyone.
But that's it. . .further ahead than what? What's the rush? In my mind, I'm thinking, can't I go after my coaching career with the same love for people, with the same creative thinking, with the will, ambition, and persistence to succeed? Of course. Unfortunately, I have seen many people fall into the same trap, regardless of whether they are in Amway or not. They quit thinking and let others do the talking.
Like a tape, or a function, or a book. You always retain the choice to listen to what you want, granted. . .but when I chose to formulate my business around my thought process, it wouldn't work. I was too nice. I read one day that the best dreamers encourage others to dream. So I did, and I discovered being nice, not pushy, doesn't exactly work in sales. You don't have to be mean, but you must get your point across, emphatically.
Encouraging others to dream, in my mind, means to discover what you love, and to make what you love work. But that doesn't have to be Amway. . .and that is what bugs me. The tapes reinforce the fact that if you don't have guts, you'll quit. If you don't have a spine, you'll quit. If you don't change your life, by building Amway, you'll quit. Ever heard of rational lies? Somehow, the Amway leaders do justify their businesses because they bust their butt to get there, and then make you feel guilty for not doing the same. But then say its okay to do what you want. Where's the common line? Just too many conflicting opinions.
My first function I attended I approached an Emerald. I said, "what is a key to building this business?" He hesitated, because he wasn't my upline, and then said, "be like a duck, look calm above, paddle like crazy underneath." Is that bad? No, so why not come out with a full pamphlet indicating the hours, time, energy it takes to go diamond, or even direct.
I know, I know, I've heard, but that's the power of duplication, someone will have the time to do that. So why is everyone running around screaming go diamond? Everything evolves after you get in, after you've gone to a function, always after the fact. Is that entirely bad? I don't know, but that's the way they do it. But I do think it is misleading, and some people out there, most people, shouldn't be mislead. Plain and simple.
I've written a lot, had to say some things. . .could you update me on the Proctor and Gamble lawsuit. I read through some material here, but I don't think I have the clear picture.
best regards,
Re: Interesting
I appreciate your response. MLM is still a kinda scary thing. My biggest reservations are the fact that you(the whole multi-level organization of the company) run out of people to bring in. That's is the hardest part for me. Sponsoring people knowing that it WILL fizzle out. That's why we choose to mainly "share" the product with people. Everyone uses long distance, and it's cheap.
Otherwise, I agree in theory with most of yoru points. Especially with regards to Amway.
Talk to you later.
This page was last updated on Sep-16-98