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The following posts have been reprinted in their entirety from posts e-mailed by readers of this website, except that headers, names and locations have been removed. These posts express the opinions and experiences of their authors, and this site publisher makes no representations about them in any way whatsoever. Re: Amway and Network 21 Hi I'm surprized - you don't seem to have much bad news on Amway distributors. I fish for a small local angling club, and we can probably dig out more crap just between the few of us. How about the lot of good and positive Amway and NW21 has made to thousants of people? Just asking

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I have had a friend trying to get me into the "thing" for the past few months. When I ask him questions he has to check upline? I check your site and have found the answers to most of my questions, however I can't find it all. I would love to show him the answers to my questions when he has to ask someone else. Is there a book or something with all of this information in it?

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Re: Amway   Hi, I find it amazing that there is so much to be said about a company that ,even in its own country,only 20% of the population have even heard of it.

 

I have heard many amazing stories about peoples "experiances" with Amway corp. and frankly find alot of them inflated and largely without basis.

With regards to being ripped off.How can you be ripped off by a company that offers 100% money back on its own products?If it is by unscrupulous distributors then what have been Amway's reaction?Many people that I have spoken to in the past have not even taken these matters up with Amway!!!

I genuinely feel for anyone who fails in any business but look at what conventional business failure costs-health,homes,families,do I need to go on?

It costs less than #100 pounds to get started in Amway in the UK refundable for 6 Months!!!I can't think of any other business that offers this.Maybe it is because it is so easy to start that if expectations arn't met quickly then it is easy to walk away and blame Amway, but if you had to invest #500,000 like starting a big name fast food franchise you would make sure it worked.

Over 3 million people are distibutors world wide,It is in its 40th year of operation and many of the largest companies in the world choose to move their products through the network.Doesn't that at least say something? Well I am sure alot of people will be upset by this but so what there are always critics

I will leave you with this thought Nobody ever erected a statue to critic

[Or to an Amway distributor. . . ]

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Re: Amway and. . . Tripod???

It's pretty interesting that you would promote a site like Tripod.com when you would rip on a site like Quixtar, in which all IBOs do is promote a site. Since you are promoting a site and suckering people to believe your side, shouldn't you be shut down? Why should anyone believe you? Proctor and Gamble couldn't win against Amway, but what makes what you're doing worse is that you are spreading gossip and slander and probably gaining profit from it from Tripod. That's exactly what they proved Sidney Schwartz of doing. Sidney Schwartz was paid by P&G to spread gossip about Amway. At least when Amway did something wrong, they admitted it and apologized. I will be showing your site to the people in Distributor Relations at Amway and because of possible legal tanglings, your site will most likely be shut down. Just pray "Big Brother" doesn't find you. By the way, where do you get your biased information? Are you that bitter against hard-working Americans?
Sincerely,
A Concerned Citizen

[Again. . . huh? First of all, I don't "promote" Tripod, I use them as one of my web hosting services. That's what they are. They host web sites. Second, the only slander involved here is the above from this anonymous e-mailer. Profit from Tripod? For WHAT??? They host my web site. Complain to distributor relations? Go ahead, make my day! I'm not a distributor, chump. You think the people in Ada are God or the US Supreme Court? It's just a business. Since they can't even control their distributors, what on earth makes you think they have any control over me? As for where I get my "biased" information, if you bothered to read the site you would know that I got it from my lengthy experience as a distributor and as the employee of a diamond. And no, I'm not at all bitter against hard-working Americans. I'm trying to save them a lot of money, time and heartache with the information posted here.]

Re: Quixtar

a guy that i met through a long time friend talked to me about quixtar today (07-18-99). after about a half hour of talking to him he said i would have to see the full presentation, and blah, blah, you know the story. so i told him that i'd talk to him later in week. now i know you are probably cringing right now but my only question is it worth it to get started if you aren't going to put the effort into the tier below you? (which i'm not). by the way he tried to make it sound like i could understand the whole concept to the company and how it work but by the time my hour was up with him it didn't take a genous to figure out it worked on a tier system. a little surfing on the web and i had all that i needed, thanx for putting up the info.

PS: i already gave him my phone number, is there anyway to get rid of the barage of calls i expect or am i looking at multiple number blocks?

[This letter doesn't win the prize for the great number of consecutive "Amspeak" sentences, but I think it's a close second!]

If your pin doesn't change, it may be that you are doing what most other people do - sit in front of the TV most of their life, expecting other people to do what they won't do, so they could become rich (and famous).
If your pin doesn't change, you have to become better, not bitter. Life ows you nothing. It start with you, and we call it attitude. If you have a negative attitude, you will attract negative people, and that's lowering your lid of achievement on youself. If you associate with positive and successfull people, chances are you will become a better person and your level in achievement will raise, no matter what business you are in. I don't know what turns you on in life, but chances are there is still a lot you really want to do before you up and die one day. Maybe you won't be able to get to it all, but would it be nice if you could do some of it? This business is not only about the money. It's also about becomming a better person, and it makes a difference in many people's lives. It has in mine. I highly recommend you read "Awakening the Giant within" by Anthony
Robbins.

You know, people say to me; Yea, you have a nice house, 3 cars, boat, and some other stuff they envey me for. Maybe that's because I'm prepared to do what they won't. They say I'm lucky. I am fortunate. The only thing I'm fortunate in is that I understand that if anything is to happen in my life, I, and nobody else, can make that happen. I determine my own future. You can too.

If you've seen the Amway business plan, look into it some more. There's more than meets the eye. Some negative person probably talked you out of even investigating it properly. You want other people to prescribe what you can or not - fine.

Never say you didn't have the opportunity. This is it! Hope you find what you're looking for in your life.

Regards

I don't understand why people are always out to make other businesses look bad. I will never understand it, for it just makes yours look bad. I happen to like that Amway and Quixtar business and it looks like to me it is working.

But like with any big company or group of people . I don't care of they are, there is a few bad apples. But then I guess that makes everyone bad. Well I have been to churches that had bad people in them, but you don't have every Tom Dick And Harry writing bad thinds about it.

You see I just don't understand what it is that gets you off talking bad about some else.

I guess that is how some people get their jollies!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks

Re: Amway and Quixtar

Dear Sir(s)
I have been involved with the Amway business opportunity for only three months now so I can't quote you a lot of facts and figures and the like. What I can tell you is that feel sorry for you, who ever you are. If you have nothing better to do than to print negative material about a company that has positively affected thousands of lives, I really do feel sorry for you. I would ask you a question; Have you found a better financial vehicle since you have terminated your affiliation with Amway, and if so please share it with the rest of us. If you can show me beyond the shadow of a doubt something better I would love to see it. Until you can just shut up!.

As to the making of money off of tools, so what!? My upline shared with me recently (voluntarily and with out any coercion) that there is a lot of money made on tools. I think that is awesome, I will one day be a Diamond (regardless of what rhetoric you or others write) and when that day comes I don't really care if the money comes from the products or the sale of tools, or the royalties that come from tools (and I think you wouldn't have either if you had had the balls enough to reach for such a lofty goal instead of becoming another whining crying poor me.)

They say that hell is when the person you are meets the person you could have become, I wonder how the day will feel for you when you finally wake up and realize what you threw away.

As you said yourself, this is business. THAT is explained to every person who has ever been involved with Amway. The purpose of a business, any business, is to make money, and every business takes investment so get over it.

I challenge you to find a comparable training system for success (that has produced the the same astounding results of the Yeager system) that is cheaper, or more effective.

By the way how much money have you dumped into this worthless site, better yet how much are you making from it?

Answer me this: if there are so many things wrong with Amway business than why has it existed for forty years, why do thousands of people and major corporations join the cult every year, why has Merril
Lynch suggested that more corporations join, and why does The FTC use Amway Businesses Model as the benchmark for measuring all other MLM's?

Listen if you have a need to spout off about something why not choose a more worthwhile cause. Why not the tobacco industry which has withheld vital (life threatening) health information from its consumers and the general public for the last thirty or forty years, and why their ad campaigns have been aimed at teens and kids for the last several years (NO BRAINWASHING THERE IS THERE) . I don't know maybe those kind of details escape your obviously narrow mind or maybe they just aren't immoral enough for you.

Like I said before I have only been a distributor for a few months now and maybe I haven't done as much research as you have, but regardless of what you know, or think you know, I want you to think about this: WE (all of us brainwashed, immoral Amaziods wasting our money on worthless tools) WILL BE LAUGHING REALLY HARD (especially at you) ALL THE WAY TO THE BANK COME THIS TIME NEXT YEAR.

P.S. Keep your eyes on the net, and you ears to the ground; QUIXTAR.COM is coming like a freight train, and nothing will stand in it's way, least of all you.

Re: Amway Widow

Hi there,

I've been reading the e-mails for the past 2 nights and finally feel so validated. My husband decided nearly 3 years ago, over my very strong protests, to become an Amway distributor and our relationship has never been
under such strain as it has been subjected to in the last 3 years. Lest anyone think we had "issues" before we got into "the business" (as our upline has suggested), we have known each other for 20 years and have been married for 15. We have four children, ages 7 and under. We have been through quite a bit -- finished our last 2 years of college together on a shoestring budget, my husband has been laid off twice, we lost over $10,000 in a fraudulent investment scam and have mismanged our money in other ways. None of that compares to the strain of the past 3 years. The changes in his behavior since joining Amway are astonishing. Nothing has come between us as the Amway business and the Yager system have.

In nearly 3 years, my husband has not missed one open meeting, local rally, "net sem," or long-distance function. As I write this, he is in Charlotte for yet another Family Reunion, yet again leaving me alone with the little ones. Our fourth child was born nearly a year ago -- he left us to go to FED when she was only two weeks old -- I begged him when the tickets went on sale to skip it -- the system has such a strong hold on him that he couldn't do it, and in the twisted fashion so typical of those who buy into the system, he truly thought he was more of a man for leaving us so that he could get more of the "personal growth" that was going to "set us free." I can't compete with this. Before he left yesterday, I told him I wanted to see a
marriage counselor when he got back. He was completely stunned.

In fairness, Amway itself is not to blame, although I have never liked the MLM concept. Also, although my husband has spent thousands of dollars in the Yager system, he does not STP enough -- he's reached the much-touted 15-plans-a month level only about 5 or 6 times. So who knows, he probably would have had more success by now if he was consistently showing it. However, it hasn't been for lack of trying. He has a shoebox full of paper scraps and business cards of people he's "contacted" (ugh), at least half of whom he can't reach, 25% of whom reject him on the phone, another half of that agree to an appointment but don't show up. That leaves about 10-15% of the contacts he makes willing to sit down and see the plan. The sheer numbers of people you have to go through are staggering. Of course, he started out with our families and neighbors, then people from church and school. The change in our relationship with many of these people echoes so clearly with what I have been reading in the other posts. When I tell him I want to go back to "normal," the way things used to be before the business, he looks totally disgusted with me.

I did attend some meetings and functions with him, at one point even buying plane tickets for his parents to come stay with our kids so we could go to a Family Reunion (28 hours on the road and 6 people in our hotel room -- I was the only female). I did meet some nice people and some outright jerks. For example, I recognized one of the posts on your page to be from a lady named **. She is crossline from us, and she really is a class act. She was able to make the business work for her without it turning her into a thug. I do believe in a lot of the positive thinking things you are taught -- it has worked for me in other areas of my life. I just think that some people can apply it to this business and be successful and others can't. The sad thing is that you are made to feel inadequate if you can't apply it ("Anyone who wants to succeed badly enough will succeed"). I really want my husband back. No amount of material success and security is worth the conflict we hae been experiencing.

Do you know of any chats or boards specifically for people in my situation? I am not a Tripod member -- does it cost to join? I would really like to find other people who have been through this too and how they survived it. Thanks.

I find it ironic that you work so hard to denounce a corporation (the people or the system is not the target here) and I think it funny that you also try to make yourself sound as a "MLM survivor". To me, you are a motivator as your site gives the impression of someone or something which is scared or nervous by your zeal to denigrate. Trust me, I am not a fanatic or a fool, only a person trying to increase my income. To me, however, your endeavors are fanatical in appereance. With this effort to create such unrest, you are not responsible enough to attach a name to your accusations, therefore, you lack credibility.

First of all I would like to commend you on standing up for what you believe to be true. However, I believe a lot of people are missing the true magic of the training system that wwdb provides. Show me another example of an organization within this country that stands up for the principles this great country was founded upon. Show me an organization out there that prides themselves on a 1% divorce rate. Show me an organization that cares whether or not parents spend time with their children, instead of their children spending time at a daycare. Show me another organization that will take the time an effort to nurture a family into believing that they can do anything. Show me an organization that truly promotes debt free living. If there are people out there that believe money is the key to happiness, I'm sorry to tell you it is not.

Read any self-improvement or success book out there, (aside from the wwdb system) and you will see that the system that wwdb provides is not only to make money, but to build and edify people into the leaders that they can actually be. I joined Amway 4 months ago and since then I have gotten two merit raises at my job, my marriage has never been at a higher point, I am more excited about living because I have dream, and I know your'e probably not going to like this, I've made some money. You see in order for the wwdb system to work for you, you have to be teachable. If you are not teachable, and really do not want to be a success you won't be. In order to be a success you have to be able to learn from those who have achieved success.
Go ahead and read some stories about those people in history who have made a fortune and find out how many found success immediately. Now look at those stories and find how many of those people lost their friends, went bankrupt, had people laugh at them, and the list could go on. The point being, a true leader never gives up on his dream.

Another point you might want take note on is that, the wwdb doesn't have to tear people down to get their point across. They don't have to make fun of people or justify their system. If you truly want the system to work for you, and you truly want to reach success, then don't do it at other people's expense. As long as there are people out there on the streets barely making a living, children never seeing their parents, debt towering over households, and people just looking for a little hope, I will thank my living God for this business. If you feel that money is the only thing to aspire for in life then I can honestly say I feel very sorry for you, because you seem to be 10 times more selfish than any diamond I have ever met. If it is a crime to seriously care for people, and offer hope to those less fortunate then lock up wwdb and throw away the key, because that is the true heart of the system that seems to be so misunderstood. Thank you for your time and I truly hope you are living your dream, because I am.

Re: Primerica Financial Services

I'm trying to get some information on "Primerica" Financial Services. I recently was roped into attending a "seminar" and found it to be a clear cut case of a pyramid scheme, although less obvious than some. I would
appreciate any .available.

Thank you

GET A LIFE!

Dear sirs, I have look though you e-mail and find it very interesting.I am in amway and never bought tools or functions I could not afford.Maybe at these functions I lost out on information.But that was my choice.Most people I find critical of amway, get in then just sit and expect them to be rich.It takes work .But I have found that if you really want to change your life you will,and if you do not you do not.You will always be a prisoner if you listen to evey neg. thing.Nothing is perfict but I find that Amway is the fairest and staight forward co.The co. never promised me anything.The only thing I knew unless I changed, I will forever be where I will be.Thanks and have a good day

Re: Excel

To be honest i am looking for any thing on Excel that you have ?

Be fore you write you should have some research from a professional background to back up your claims and falsehoods. Check out the site www.firedup.org I'm sure Dr.Shad Helmstetter would love to hear from you.

[Once again, I take strong exception to accusations of publishing falsehoods. In a head-to-head confrontation with Dr. Helmstetter, I'm quite confident that my information is far more extensive and complete than his. Are you familiar with our country's laws pertaining to slander and libel? I am!]

Imagine that, a business about making money. How stupid we all are to not be paying EXACTLY what the stores and manufacturers pay to make and distribute goods and services. As a matter of fact Im writing this on my totally free PC and with totally free electricity eating my totally free burger from McDonalds. LOL Unfortunatly there has been bad experiences in your endeavors and an apology is in order. But if you have a bad experience with a Ford will we see a Ford bashing site also. Thats youre right but to spend time focusing on the bad and crummy in the world why not at least see the mediocre, maybe even the just over mediocre..lol. Just came across your site and wanted to post an opinion, probably wont get posted for all of your ARMY to see but oh well ,again youre right to do so.Ive been involved for 5 years and again IMagine just like a traditional business ,Ive had ups and downs. To be told otherwise is abold face lie. But There have been truly more ups and we are succesful in this business. Good luck on whatever your purpose is and We'll see where it all ends up in the years to come. Who is standing and who is not.

[If people are going to write to me, they really ought to read the site and read my responses. I spent as much time working for a diamond as this person has as a distributor. And yet the writer tells me I've had "bad experiences" and expects an apology. For what? Having more information than she?]

Re: Amway/Quixtar

Dear sirs or maams.
We just wanted to drop you a note to tell you that we understand that there are always two sides to a story. We have had an incredible upswing in ex-amway distributors resigning to be involved in the quixtar business model. Most of these people are stating that they did not produce any effort and therfore did not make any money. Also, they were not open to learning how to be successful in this type of business. You know that until something is sold nothing seems to happen in a free commerce society. So thank your lucky stars that someone had the guts to go out and sell something so that people who choose to allow someone else to decide their worth could do indentured servitude the rest of their life. We have had a private business using amways servicing centers and expertise, to generate a fair income, and have helped many others do the same. So if you didn't make it, some do! Therefore it does work. Like it or not. I was not successful as a slave, working my guts out so my bosses wife could be on the beach, have their kids in private schools, live in the nice homes, and have the options that most people dream about. So I found someone who was successful, attached myself to them and allowed myself to be mentored. I also found peace of spirit, and you cannot put a price on that. In closing,,,One mans dream is another mans nightmare. Thanks for the chat. Bye the way.....Love your site......

Re: Quixtar

Hi,

I'm glad to come across your site. My husband was at a meeting the other night, i believe for Quixtar, and wanted me to go to the next one. I've had a bad feeling about those meetings. It's in regards to shopping on-line and it's being done in Toronto. Do you know anything about Britt-beavis worldwide, their name is being used in this? And they say their technology partners are IBM, Cambell Ewald, Microsoft, and Fry Multi media, what is their involvement in this?
if you can share anything else with me about them I'd like to know.

thanx for your site.

Re: Amway China

Saw your article on China and Amway -- have you considered the possibility that the Chinese Government clamped down on direct selling because it encourages the growth of capitalism in a country that is so staunchly Communist that it publicly kills political protestors (remember Tian-an-men Square) ? The "real" danger of Amway-like businesses in China is that they undermine the principals which an ivory-tower Socialist Elite has been shoving down the throats of the common people since the turn of the century.

[Then why did China let Amway start in the first place. . .]

Re: Quixtar

Just a note to say THANK YOU for your diatribe on Quixtar. It's exactly what I've been looking for: a objective
opinion about this. My friends are all getting involved thinking they'll be millionaires by 2001. I even invested in it and then realized I'm just another Amway distributor till 9/1/99. Which was not disclosed to me till I signed the papers. I'm getting out of it NOW.

It was promoted to me as a business started by Microsoft, IBM and the "Owners of the Orlando Magic". I feel like an idiot!!!

Anyway, thanks again for your article.

My husband was attracted to join Herbalife by the product, it worked on him. He lost almost 15 pounds in two weeks. Then he was given this business opportunity and he joined. Thank God that find your websites and others on the internet, he is going to quit this "business".

I wonder if you have any information on the product of Herbalife. Why it worked on my husband? Although he lost weight, but seeing him losing that much in such a short time scared me. We'd like to have some more knowledge about the product.

I don't know whether my ISP accepts your return as I'm not an expert on e-mail. Sorry. But please try to return any information you got.

Thank you very much.

Sorry, couldnt help myself (refering to Subject). Please, get your facts straight.You undermine any legitement (sp) concerns by your ignorance of what is going on with Quixtar. Have you ever owned your own conventional business? I have. The overhead is outrageous. The small amount we have paid for tools and seminars in the past three years is less than we spent in 3 months for the business we owned. Every conceivable expense that would normally be required in a traditional business is outsourced for the IBO
with Quixtar. Manufacturing, inventory, lawyers, paperwork, product developement,etc,etc,etc. Picture a Costco where you go to buy your stuff every month till you die. Costco doesnt advertise, they let their
costumers do that for them. What if they offered to profit share with you based on the volumn created by those you refer. Sounds like a smart thing to do as a consumer. Well, costco will never do that. If you were going to attend college to learn the neccessary skills and information to become a competent engineer, doctor, whatever, would you expect to do well without attending class or using tools?(books, tapes) Im afraid that what I see in your web-site is alot of blame-shifting whining. Get a life! It's frustrating because I for one, (and I'm sure you and your's will consider me brainwashed) Have profited in every way from my involvement in first Amway, and now as we "grandfather" into the Quixtar model. Instead of trying to interpret the meaning of what you hear from a negative filter or paradyme, why not objectively ask questions and get valid answers for your concerns. The INA comments made on your site were particularly ignorant. IT IS PERFECTLY APPROPRIATE,to refer to the Quixtar model at business meetings because all of INA will be moving to that Model. I quess there were some Bad apples in other organizations within Amway that were not informing people that in order to begin building a business prior to 9/1/99 they would be starting in the Amway Corp. Because Amway and Quixtar are sister organizations, Quixtar has contracted to utilize Amways fullfillment
infrastructure and compensation plans, allowing us to help IBO's develope profit and provide training in preparation for the launch.Do you think that Microsoft and FRye multimedia (Tada) and IBM are stupid. [No. I think that they were hired to do a job. They are not "partners" with Amway/Quixtar, and Ken McDonald sent IBOs a message about this quite recently. And yet YOU accuse me of getting my facts wrong. . . ] Do you think that they are partnering with us for nothing? They want to be part of what we are doing. Do you realize that because of the 40 years of building that the Amway corp has done, Quixtar, as a sister corperation will be able to deliver products and services to anywhere at the cost of 5-7% shipping to
anywhere in U.S. at a 99.8% accuracy in 1.4days? Do you know that everything sold has a full 1 year guarentee, and if you dont like what you get ,they reinburse you for the cost of the item, plus shipping to you,
plus they pay for return shipping. WHo else does that? I Bought all my families christmas Presents thru my business during a close-out sale(we have great sales) had them wrapped and shipped to my relatives in Oregon(no tax) and only went to the mall for a cafe' latte' and to look at the lights. Quixtar is to Amway what Mercedes is to Chrysler. Mercedes and Chrysler are owned by the same people but you wouldnt call a chrysler a mercedes. The DeVoss and Van Andle families who own Amway and now have developed Quixtar own multiple businesses. Just because they own the Orlando Magics and a yaught building company etc, doesnt mean that the Orlando Magics are really the Amway Magics. Basically, all our life we a consumers, Participating in someones marketing plan. Why not our own. Buy stuff you are going to by ANYWAY, get membership prices, refer others and profit-share. Are you so brain washed that like sheep you obediently take your hard earned cash and spend it in places that will never cut you in? Something is wrong with that thinking. No one seems to mind it that all the retailing giants collect our bucks. There was a time in this country where people were used to keeping commerce among the people. You traded eggs for some fresh milk, or some carpentry for welding. Why not harness our consumer power and redistribute the wealth. Did you know that if subject to the compensation plan of both Amway 2000 and Quixtar, the 140 Billion that Walmart did last year, would be enough cash to pay 100,000 IBOs $300,000.00 per year? Hey, Im tired and it's time for bed. Let it be noted, I am extremely proud of Amway, Quixtar, and INA, and because we have listened to the tapes, and attended
functions, and read success and self improvement oriented books, we have added thousands to our yearly income, and we are helping others to do the same. It does work, if you work it. P.S.I dont know about other leadership organization but in INA revenues from tools is less than 2% of their income. People drop out of college all the time. Does that mean college doesnt work or did the student lose their ability to be consistant and work hard toward their goal. It's very human for people to have to be "right" In other words, if they change their mind, or give up, or are too scared to step out of their comfort zone, rather than say that it was'nt for them, or that they didn't stick with it , its much more comfortable for their ego, to blame shift, and make the previously embraced opportunity the bad guy. I'll admit that there have been many times I've had doubts about my ability to stick with it and succeed. But again, because we stayed committed and were willing to learn and grow, we are having alot of success. Good luck with whatever you do, and just maybe, you ought to put your zeal and efforts into something more productive and positive.

Re: Quixtar

I'll take it that you have not personally seen the quixtar oppurtunity. cause it sounds like alot of here say?

Re: Quixtar

hi!

i thought i met a nice person. then she came over with books. i was..#$% ^&^& ??? then she started talk the Quixtar...right away,i figured out this would not work...mathmatically speakly ! i told her the material is the money maker for people who sold them $100+ a piece. but, i am too much a nice guy..she will be back! i hate to see people being 'brain washed' - mind is a strange thing ! what a waste.

sour grapes

More from Larry. . .

[Larry, who inspired many of my comments on the page "What Distributors are Saying About Quixtar" has been upset with me because I haven't posted all of his e-mails. So -- heeeere's Larry!]

Part I

Well congrats on finally updating your webpage. I noticed that the tone was decidedly less direct on your part. But it's still . . . interesting. I offer the following points for your consideration:

1) I noticed that the "Distributors and Quixtar, Part II" link is inactive. What's supposed to go there?

2) I noticed you put my entire first email to you on the site. I applaud you for this. However, at the end you say "[For my responses to this letter, please visit "What Are Distributors Saying About Quixtar", which is a cop-out, since in those responses, 1) you didn't respond to everything in my email; 2) your responses were tainted with misinformation and misquotes. I called you on these points in a later email that you rebutted simply with "there's nothing wrong that I know of." Why not put my second email on your site as well?

3) Your "Quixtar Rules" section is interesting as well.

a) In response to the 4 rules you quote, you say "I guess the Independent Business Owners are really independent, aren't they?" So which is it, Ruth? Do we obey the rules, or not. I seems like either way, you have a slam against us.

b) as far as the comments from people are concerned, it's obvious that they were either taught wrong (it happens) or they misunderstood (that happens too). Points:

"My husband and I were solicited to join INA (Quickstar) which we were told is a sister company to Amway. We paid a $161.00 for our pin number but when we received our kit, it was all Amway products. Our pin card for INA (Quickstar) also has Amway stamped all over it." (It should have been explained to this person that If you sign up before 1 Sep, you are signing up as an Amway IBO, with the understanding that you have a chance to establish a network which could be inplace for the Quixtar launch. Therefore, any current kits and cards are Amway kits).
"We were originally told that the new Internet mall will incorporate the same "point system" as Amway and all retailers must submit to the point system to be a part of the mall but the whole thing so far seems to be centered on Amway. Everything from their literature, the pressure to go to meetings, Anvox system, buy their books, tapes etc ... none of which my husband and I are interested in, in the least. (They're right, it is centered on Amway. The plan is based on Amway's. The infrastructure is Amway's. The customer base at launch is Amway's. The startup capital is Amway's. The reputation that is driving companies to be a part of this is Amway's. So what's their problem? If it's the system, then fine, don't be a part of it. What's their point?)

"You are right in what you stated on your web site, that there is a lot of hype about this mall. There are no real solid answers to any of our questions regarding it. We have been told that it will be the largest Internet mall and that new stores will be added daily, but as far as who is going to be apart of it, no one really knows. And this makes me very uneasy." (Two ways to approach this, both of which are fine. Take this person's approach, which is to wait and see what happens. Or take my approach, which is to be more scared of missing out on this than of whether or not it works. He (or she) will believe it when they see it, and I'll go on faith. Isn't it interesting, though, that most business successes (Amazon, KFC, McDonald's, Amway, radio, TV, the PC, etc.) are a result of faith acted upon in the face of skepticism?)

"I have more questions at this point then I do answers." (GREAT!! That means he/she is thinking, right? So, do you act on the idea that it might work, or freeze in case it won't? That's up to each individual.)

"if we cannot recruit people for Quixstar why the videos they are putting out do exactly that? There is no mention in the new video (Net Gain) about waiting till September 1, to become a distributor which leads me to believe the whole thing is misleading. I'm wondering also why INA (Quixstar) (which we are supposed to be a part of) is holding symposiums starting this month?" (You can recruit for Quixtar now. You just can't sign someone up in it now. In other words, I can tell you that this is coming, and tell you how to position yourself for it, but when I sign you up, I MUST sign you up in Amway. If the meetings are doing it right, this point should be made clearly during the presentation.)

"Amway distributors are not allowed to sign up, register, or preregister those persons interested in joining Quixtar, until it in fact becomes a company. If this is true, why are meetings still being held to gain new recruits for Quixtar. You can recieve your access number for a nonexistent mall in a company which does not exist within a few days. I was at a meeting last night and there was another one scheduled for tonight." (The first sentance is %100 correct. When you sign someone up, they must be signed up in Amway, with the understanding that they will be able to be Quixtar IBOs on day one if they choose with a network in place. That's the advantage of signing up now. If you don't see it that way, then wait until 1 Sep. But please don't mischaracterize it as improper.)

Peace & GOD BLESS!!

Part II. Larry put a lot of words in my mouth with this one. . .

So, Ruth, with all of the FACTS available about Quixtar over the past few weeks, the latest update to your site about it is about one shady character:

"So -- there you have it, folks. An excellent example of the quality of ethical and legal behavior we can expect from Quixtar and its distributors, complete with appropriate earnings claims."

(Ah yes, how I'd forgotten how much I love to be generalized along with everyone else. That's the American Way, eh Ruth? You certainly know alot about me. Did we ever meet? Beware of such behavior, Ruth. It's low-class. Don't behave like you accuse me of behaving.)

I'll ask again, since you never did answer before: what, exactly, is your experience with E-commerce? Do you run a business online? Research from the cheap seats doesn't count, either. You pride yourself on how much your personal experience in an AMO validates your site, so I feel like I'm being fair in demanding a similar experience base when you criticize Quixtar.

Some questions, based on your experience:

1) Why was USA Today stupid when it quoted a projected 1st year volume of $3 to $5 billion (Amazon.com is $605 million)?

2) Why are the following facts irrelevant:
a) The website will be housed in 40 separate web, data, and application servers, and will be mirrored
at a second site
b) A $22 million supercomputer was purchased to handle the traffic
c) Multiple DS-3 circuits will handle the traffic to the server
d) 150 full-time staff has been devoted to Quixtar
e) 6000 people were just at a function in Greensboro where a company spokeswoman spent two
hours displaying actual pages of the Quixtar site, talking about the merchant partners,
and answering questions
f) Wired, Business 2.0, Network Marketing Lifestyles, and USA Today have all published articles
favorable to Quixtar. Why are they stupid?

3) Why am I being the abject criminal you accuse me of being when I say to my prospects that
Quixtar is as close to a sure thing as they come, given:
a) A key challenge facing ecommerce companies is distribution, which we've excelled at for years
b) A key challenge facing ecommerce companies is establishing a customer base, which will be in
place on 1 Sep 99 fopr Quixtar.
c) A key challenge facing ecommerce companies is advertising, which Quixtar gains from the word of
mouth of it's IBOs.

4) Why would e-commerce professionals get into my group, as they are doing now? Given your
extensive ecommerce experience, why are they stupid?

5) Why don't e-commerce professionals bash Quixtar on your site? Do you not post their emails?

Peace & GOD BLESS!!

Part III. More words placed in my mouth. . .

"Which facts are you referring to?"

Selective memory loss, Ruth? I'll repost the facts FROM THE EMAIL YOU JUST
ANSWERED:

a) The website will be housed in 40 separate web, data, and application
servers, and will be mirrored
at a second site
b) A $22 million supercomputer was purchased to handle the traffic
c) Multiple DS-3 circuits will handle the traffic to the server
d) 150 full-time staff has been devoted to Quixtar
e) 6000 people were just at a function in Greensboro where a company
spokeswoman spent two
hours displaying actual pages of the Quixtar site, talking about the
merchant partners,
and answering questions
f) Wired, Business 2.0, Network Marketing Lifestyles, and USA Today have
all published articles
favorable to Quixtar.

(From further in the message YOU JUST ANSWERED):

a) A key challenge facing ecommerce companies is distribution, which we've
excelled at for years
b) A key challenge facing ecommerce companies is establishing a customer
base, which will be in
place on 1 Sep 99 fopr Quixtar.
c) A key challenge facing ecommerce companies is advertising, which Quixtar
gains from the word of
mouth of it's IBOs.

Also, I've got a mailing from Amway regarding Quixtar which, among other
things, mentions that the current plan will be the Quixtar plan, AS I SAID
IN MY VERY FIRST EMAIL TO YOU (remember that one, Ruth? It's the one you
call me a fool that you haven't changed yet, even thought it's wrong).

"Don't you think it's significant that an individual with a 10-year
> history of convictions for fraud, illegal pyramid schemes, and
> infomercial fraud has become the "official" sales trainer for an
> Amway/Quixtar organization? I certainly do. Let's see, what is it that
> leaders are so fond of saying, "where you are in five years depends on
> the books you read and the people you associate with." So Storms is
> welcoming a criminal into his organization and making him official
> trainer. And you don't think it's significant?? I beg to differ."

Two points about this one Ruth. First of all, at least we know something
about Trudeau's past experiences. That's more than I can say about you.
For the umpteenth time, Ruth, what, exactly, is your experience with
E-commerce? Do you run a business online? Research from the cheap seats
doesn't count, either. You pride yourself on how much your personal
experience in an AMO validates your site, so I feel like I'm being fair in
demanding a similar experience base when you criticize Quixtar. Secondly,
I'll completely grant that it's a dumb move on Storm's part. But my point
is, DON'T use this to make the insulting and hateful statement about all
Quxtar IBOs (me included): "So -- there you have it, folks. An excellent
example of the quality of ethical and legal behavior we can expect from
Quixtar and its distributors, complete with appropriate earnings claims."
There are plenty of people who are negative on Amway, and therefore,
Quixtar. But, based on your statement, I should generalize them all like I
view you and folks like you. And THAT'S not fair to them.

"And Storms himself made some outrageous claims. "Quixtar will be
> profitable from day one." Give me a break."

What's profit to you, Ruth? Making up the initial investment? Then
probably not. But if you mean the revenue on day one exceeding the expenses
on day one, then I'll bet you're wrong on that one.

"Did I say that was irrelevant? Gee, I must be posting web pages in my
> sleep while you're yawning!"

Not addressing the facts about Quixtar, and dwelling on the system, leads me
to believe that the facts aren't impotant to you. A.K.A. "irrelevant."

"Larry, you are too intelligent to be exhibiting such obtuseness. Earnings
> and sales forecasts are just that -- forecasts. Quixtar may indeed have a
> first year volume that high, although I highly doubt it. Time alone will
> tell. Some of the "forecasters" are hardly unbiased -- Kurt Salmon, for
> example, which has had business connections with Yager for years. Other
> "news reports" have just been Amway's own press releases, hardly an
> objective source. But the reason I don't see it happening is because it
> avoids the question of "where will the customers come from." Amway
> distributors don't sell to customers. So all of a sudden they become
> Quixtar distributors and they generate this huge retail business volume?
> I don't see it happening."

Oh, where do I begin. How can you call me obtuse, when you misquoted Ken
McDonald, won't elaborate on your e-commerce background, and use the
appointment of Trudeau to make a hateful blanket statement about all IBOs,
just to name a few. Never mind that, though. Your lack of research into
the FACTS about Quixtar shows through in the second part of your statement.
Before anyone can receive a bonus check, each IBO must have 50 PV done by
members and clients. Unlike before, however, each IBOs volume is tracked by
Quixtar directly based on the activity of the site, so the upline direct has
no say in it. Isn't this the kind of improvment you claim you wanted? [Yup!]

"This seems to be tacitly understood by the corp. people at Amway. For
> example, Ken McDonald's recent message where he states: "but maybe the
> most exciting is the place where you and your organization gets the most
> PV, it's called "QUIXTAR
> Exclusives." This will be an xclusive area for distributors."

Wrong again (forgive me while I yawn . . . . . . . ok). The exclusives area
will be available to anyone who shops on Quixtar. That's IBOs, members, and
clients. [I'll take Larry's word on this, although the written information coming from the corporation seems vague. I asked Larry to fax me a copy of what he was referring to, but he hasn't wanted to do that I guess.]

"According to McDonald, many of the Amway-manufactured products won't even
> be featured on the website -- you'll have to know how to search for them
> by stock number, for example. This does not indicate to me that they
> believe retail customers will play a very large part in their "success.""

Wrong again (forgive me while I yawn . . . . . . . ok). There are three
ways to search for a product not featured: name, stock number, or type
(i.e. shampoo, toothpaste). That's like any other e-commerce site (but,
with your background, I know you already knew that).

"> << Why am I being the abject criminal you accuse me of being>>
>
> Again, Larry, you're too intelligent for this."

Too intelligent for what??? Again, your quote: "So -- there you have it,
folks. An excellent example of the quality of ethical and legal behavior we
can expect from Quixtar and its distributors, complete with appropriate
earnings claims." Since I'm an IBO, then you said that this is the kind of
behavior you can expect from ME. And the behavior is criminal, correct?
So, what's wrong with my inference?

"FWIW, there are some e-commerce pros who are questioning Quixtar. Do a
> web search."

Then why aren't they on your site?

"> BTW, Larry, how come you're not using quixnet yet? I'm waiting to find
> out if you can still access my site. . . :-)" [Larry had assured me that he will let me know on 9/1/99 whether he can access my site from Amway's ISP.]

Lack of research to the end, I see . . . . go to Quixnet.net yourself and
see what I mean. The engine that powers the filtering on Quixnet is
basically the same as the one I use now -- and I get to your site just fine.
The only way for me to block your site is to use IE 5.0 features to do it
locally.

Peace & GOD BLESS!!

OK, Larry, I posted your e-mails. Happy now?

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