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The following posts have been reprinted in their entirety from posts e-mailed by readers of this website, except that headers, names and locations have been removed. These posts express the opinions and experiences of their authors, and this site publisher makes no representations about them in any way whatsoever. Re: Quixtar You are an idiot....Say what ever false things you want about Quixtar, but when the site opens up and does nearly a hundred million dollars in their first month, you'll feel dumb.

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Re: Equinox, Part I

I ran into your site while doing some very enlightening research on Equinox International. Having gone through your site and the letters and testimonials regarding MLMs in general, I wanted to drop you a line regarding my recent (yesterday, Aug 18th) experience with Equinox International. A bit of background first. I am a successful sales rep with over 8 years experience in the high tech industry. I have worked for three different fortune 100 companies. At 33, I feel that I have lived a life full of experiences. I am currently looking for a career change to go into sales management. While scanning various classified and job sites on the internet, I came across the following ad on Yahoo's Employment Classifieds:

The Paramount Group; Manager; Raleigh, North Carolina Responsibilities: Candidates will be responsible for promotions and recruitment of sales representatives. Will also help train sales representatives. No previous experience necessary. Will train manager on all duties. Date Posted: 07/27/99 Posted by: Company Industry: Professional Services (Consulting, Accounting) Function: Marketing Department: Marketing Openings: 1

This was what I was looking for. I sent an email to the contact requesting more information. I received a response requesting my resume. I was skeptical for a couple of reasons: 1) The email address was a hotmail address 2) I did a search on the Internet for The Paramount Group and found nothing, and 3) There were 11 other ads by The Paramount Group looking for everything from Sales Rep to Manager to Marketing Director to Director. I responded to the email stating that I was looking for something with an established base pay rate, health benefits and retirement benefits. I received a call from a person stating that my resume was strong, that they were looking for sales people, but that they would like to talk to me about a management position. He invited me to come talk to him and his Director at 1:00 PM. It would only take about an hour and we could go from there. He gave me directions to a known office park in my area. I thought, "OK, not a hotel conference room". I have been approached by Amway "reps" several times and had learned that scam long ago. I go to the location and there are 3 or 4 people in the waiting area. I signed in and was asked who my contact was. I sat down and watched as a girl came out and got each person, one by one, and took them back, one by one, through these double doors. While waiting, the "receptionist" started up an amicable conversation, asking me where I was from, how long had I lived in the area, etc. Then, I was called back and walked into this room with row after row of chairs and a table covered with products. My first thought then was, "Damn...another MLM!", but there were offices on either side with people on the phone, looking very busy. I figured that one hour, what could it hurt. I was introduced to my contact. Again, the questions of how long I had lived in the area, etc, came up. Then, a young woman came up and started her pitch. It started with decent business information regarding middle man, distribution channels and mark-up. Not a bad deal so far. Then, we watched a tape by the founder, Bill Gouldd. I thought I was watching an infomercial. Big houses, big cars, Gouldd was deathly ill and learned about homeopathic medicine and detoxifying his body. Total load. Then, after the tape, a man, who we were "VERY lucky to have with us" came up. He was a waiter in a previous life, yada yada yada. Very good speaker, very funny, and very convincing. The "urine water", "light bulb", "Bianca flame thrower", all the tricks that I have read on your site were done. Then, he went into the compensation plan. You CAN make money selling the product, he said, but if you want BIG money, you hire a sales staff and get them promoted, get a percentage of what they sell. The percentages didn't add up. He continued with the "whisper tunnel" theory, and more Equispeak. He then showed another tape of Bill Gouldd and the success stories of Equinox. All during the entire presentation, people all over the room were oohing and ahhing, laughing on cue, cheering, clapping, etc. When the tape was over, the speaker returned and said "We know this isn't for everyone. I am going to go to the back of the room for about 30 seconds. If this isn't for you, please feel free to leave now and we wish you luck". Now, I should have left then and there, but I was curious as to how this side-show was going to end. He returned again and then it happened. Buy the training guide, buy some product, etc., etc. When all was said and done, my sponsor asked me how it was, did I have questions, etc. I told him this was not what I was looking for and that I wasn't going to commit to anything and that thanks for wasting 2 hours of my day. He then asked if I would talk to the speaker as his mentor, trainer or whatever the hell it was, was not there today. I asked where he was on the food chain, and he said he was a supervisor. I then asked how long he had been with the company and he proceeded to tell me 5 weeks. Now, math is not my forte, but I was told in the presentation that to reach manager, 2 months of 5K in sales was required and to reach supervisor, another 2 months of 5K ( or 10K, I don't recall now) was required. Hmmm....5 weeks and he was where it was "supposed" to take 4 months. I thought that he might be some super salesman, but I knew that wasn't true from his total lack of communications skills, probing, etc. He took me back to talk to the speaker and he (the speaker) immediately went on the defensive when I told him that benefits were important since I had a family, a guaranteed base would be required, etc. He then went to tell me that he knew of a couple paying for their healthcare and was better than any healthcare I was getting. Not true, I told him, as I was with a Fortune 50 company. He said, no, no way they were giving me good benefits. He asked me to come back Saturday and hear this speaker (who, incidentally was on the video tape with her husband whom she had met through Equinox). I told him I would think about it. As I walked out with my sponsor, he again said I really should buy a product and check it out. I told him no, but I would consider coming back Saturday. As I was walking out, I passed two women that were in the group watching the presentation. They were supposedly "newbies" as myself. I overheard one say to the other that this was a good class and that "We should get some out of this one". I went home angry that I had fallen for the Amway scam again, but decided to do some research. That is when I came across your page and the FTC suit, filed with 6 states (one of them being my state, North Carolina) and the history of Equinox and Bill Gouldd (with two D's). I wrote an email to my sponsor with 10 different URLs pointing to pages on the web regarding Equinox and that since Equinox had had all assets frozen and that NC was one of the states in the suit, I would be writing the Attorney General, Yahoo regarding the classified ad, to the FTC and the ownership of the group leasing the office space. I am sure that this is not the last I have heard from Equinox, but I am going to do whatever I can to see that they are stopped in my area. There were several young (obviously college age) people in that group and I am sure there will be several who are sucked into the lie. I will keep you up to date regarding any information I get it. If you have any hints, ideas, people I can contact, etc. regarding how to go about it, please let me know.

Please write back, should you need, to ***. I am assuming that all email addresses, etc, will be removed before posting this on your site.

Part II

Hi! I wrote you last week regarding my introduction to Equinox and wanted to give you a follow up. As you may recall, I was duped in via an ad placed on the Yahoo Classifieds looking for a Sales Manager. I wrote to my "recruiter" a rather scathing email telling him I was going to contact Yahoo, the NC Attorney General's office (re: FTC suit against Equinox), among others. As of today, 8/23/99, his ads on Yahoo are no longer available. A small step, but a step nonetheless.

No need to respond - I just wanted to let you know that I too found your site from Quixnet.net

I have been reading your site with a lot of interest. I would definitely never go into AMWAY! However I confess being involved with Excel. Not extremely involved because I don't have the time and because by nature I am not the pushy type. But I am nonetheless recommending Excel when people ask me about an opportunity. I have been involved for over a year and met all kinds of people, some of which I did not like, but I also met some of the key people, like Kenny Troutt, Steve Smith and Ken Hilton who have made an excellent impression on me. Also the service is very good and the prices very competitive. If I was not an Excel representative I would still be a customer, if only for the rates. Obviously my idea is not to try to convince you about the qualities of Excel. But I am concerned about recommending a company that persons like you might perceive as a scam or a pyramid. If (based on your site) I compare AMWAY with EXCEL, I observe that Excel cannot be accused of being cultlike: there is no pressure to keep attending meetings. They only pressure you into getting proper training. The market for telecommunications appears to be huge: they don't even have 3% of the US market. They merged with TELEGLOBE, a very reputable canadian corporation whose stock I am following with interest. Nobody has pressured me to buy TOOLS. For the peace of my conscience, please let me know what could be wrong with Excel. I honestly want to know before I get too much involved. I welcome your comments.

My cousin has been in Amway for about 4 years, and now he is starting with the QUIXTAR crap. I can not take it anymore, he suckers in all my family members into giving him money for kits, which they never use. He claims it works, but I've seen the sites, and I am convinced it doesn't, and won't allow him to pull this shit, on my family anymore. Please help, I wonder if you could help, by giving me some Info I could shut him up with. If I have to hear him talk about the "great" Quixtar, I am going to kill him, and he keeps claiming Microsoft has Invested 230 million dollar, I don't know about to well, but I know they are not backing Quixtar. Can use please help me, please give me some info that will just shut him up for good. I may not be able to save him, but If I can confront him the next time I see him, maybe I can save the rest of my family from being sucked in. I hope you can HELP, please, I need help. I can not thankyou for your sites and others like them, they help to show, what I have known all along, AMWAY/QUIXTAR is TOTAL CRAP.

thanks,

my wife saw info on channel 2 news out here in ca.and told me they were put in jail, yes I was one of his prey I quess my Q is : is there any recourse for those who were scammed or are we S.O.L (sh_ _ out of luck) please E me w/ any info and BTW your site is great!!!!

I recently heard about the FTC visiting Equinox. I, too was involved with them part-time from 3 Jun until now. I purchased $5K and only saw minimum results. I believe I was the only active person in the office from the time I signed up; I recruited a few people located out of town, but since I worked full time, my sponsor handled my supposedly downline. What I mean by that is, I am not sure if he put them under me or himself, since it was never confirmed if they signed up or not. There was never anyone else who signed up after me in the office I worked out of. I am trying to get on with my life. I never received checks from the company only from my sponsor's account, the excuse was: "the system is having problems, but we'll fix it, we'll get you in the system." Is Equinox really going to trial? Because my sponsor said everything is good to go, and that was only a visit because they're going on the Stock Market in a year or so! If there is going to be a trial, I definintely want some type of compensation in return! My girlfriend just opened up a shop and made a small order from the company, I have warned her too.

Thanks for listening,

I have just read through every one of your posts about Equinox and all of my sick feelings about this company are true. I was introduced to this "opportunity" about a year ago through a help wanted ad. I was already a distributor for Starlight International (a company that I have nothing negative to say about) but after sitting through what I was led to believe was going to be an interview, I was absolutley dumbfounded by the skill these people had mastered.

I went to a paid training that weekend just to see what it was these people were being taught that other company's failed to do. Honestly, it was amazing. You were given scripts and told not to alter them in any way. The longer I sat in the training, the more I realized that I had fallen for every line, of every script. But instead of running the other way, and being incredibly unhappy at my job, I dove in headfirst.

I allowed my upline and other "associates" in my office to put me down, insult me, and destroy my fragile self esteem. The longer I was involved, the harder it was for me to look myself in the mirror. I was playing along in an elaborate facade and hating myself more and more every day.

It took me about 4 months to muster up the courage to stop showing up. I physically cringe when I think about that period of time in my life. I have never felt so disgusted with myself and the things I did to try to make it work.

I do not have issue with the concept of network marketing. I continue to retail Starlight International products and have many friends who successfully work the business. But never once in my 2 years with Starlight have I ever been made to feel like I was stupid or not good enough to represent the company.

I am interested in any info you may have on Starlight? I only found 1 negative post on your site. I believe Starlight to ethical in their approach to networking and their products to be of the highest quality.

***Equinox won't even tell you anything about the ingredients in their products stating in meeting after meeting "Do you go into McDonalds and ask what the ingredients are in a hamburger. All you have to know is that it works"***

Please respond with any info. I am interested in getting some money back from Equinox if it is possible.

Could not download the piece on Primerica...... Would appreciate any information on this multi-level marketing company. Thank you for your help. Our e-mail address is

I read your article on the partner stores linked with Quixtar. When I read things like this, it truly amazes me at how closed up the human mind can get. So closed that the person becomes totally clueless to an opportunity practically smacking them in the face. I've read your stuff before and I see your negative attitude toward Amway and Quixtar. You have your opinion, and I dont wish to change that. But lets look at the facts. Amway is a 40 year old, debt free company with business in over 80 countries. They did over $7 billion in sales last year and over the years have made more millionaires than any other company except Microsoft. Quixtar has been predicted by experts in the field to pass all of that its first 12-18 months. Quixtar is not about affiliate programs. Companies like Apple and IBM have built special web sites specifically to link to Quixtar. The ideas behind Quixtar are going to truly change the world. Anyone will any intelligence, who takes a look at the plan with an open mind will see this. The rest of you will just have to sit back and watch it happen like so many have done in the past. But, hey, thats ok because the world still needs "employees". September 1 will be the day your education begins. Let me know if you need access to Quixtar... I'll send you my IBO#.

I hope that I am not violating any Internet rules, (I am not sure what "spam" is) and I trust that my question is relevant. I am interested in any info regarding MLM and coral calcium. The company is Ericssons-Preventive Medical Group out of Sweden, I think. The product, coral calcium, is from Okinawa....thank you.......

Okay, a couple of things - with any MLM company, you get out of it what you put into it. Seems like there are awful lot of whiny people out there who expect to make a purchase (aka - sign up), sit back, and become millionaires.... Maybe there was misrepresentation, who knows? Maybe they didn't check things out? Like any other business, it would be great if it weren't for the people involved! Things happen, you make the best of them and move on. I really wonder if some of these same people who complain about MLM companies are the same ones who complain about unfair life is and how their boss (or whoever) treated them so badly, or the neighbors are always causing trouble, or anything else that makes them feel better! Just a thought.... At any rate, you do seem fair in reporting comments and suggestions, however perhaps a wee bit biased regarding what monsters MLM's are, so maybe I will find my 15 minutes of fame on your page - LOL. And, btw, I met my husband in Amway, he's the most wonderful man in the world, so they were right - Amway will give you everything you ever wanted! And yes, we are switching over to Quixtar on Sept. 1, and if we become millionaires - WOW! If not, hey, we still get products at a discount!

Just a quick note to let you know that I really appreciate your site. Last Thursday I was invited to a meeting about a new Internet business. I'm pretty open minded so I decided to see what it was all about. After two long hours of sitting in a living room with people that had cult like enthusiasm and listening about the "owners" of the Orlando Magic, and how Bill Gates sponsored this Quixtar program, and getting a talk of how my current plans of finishing college and becoming a CPA were bad and how I could make over $100K in 2-3 years and retire at the age of 25 I was very confused. If this is the best program why isn't it listed in national publications as one of the top 10 careers in America?? If you could send me some information about facts that are not announced at these meetings I would appreciate it. Thanks for a great site.

Hey I just wanted to ask you if you have ever heard of Excel and if you have could I please have your opinion on it.

Okay, so I can understand the comments you've made regarding Quixtar. I really can. I am saying that as someone who has recently (in the last two weeks) signed on with Quixtar. I tend to be a little bit concerned by a "too good to be true" scenario myself. But, I think the plan that Quixtar is based on is brilliant. I did not have a negative or positive impression of the company prior to my current affiliation. I have written and re-written sentence after sentence of what I want to say to you because I don't want anything taken out of context or to provide misleading information because I am new to this business.

I can tell you this though. The premise behind quixtar is brilliant in my opinion. Yes, you may be able to do shopping elsewhere on the internet. But, I would rather do it all from one location and in manner that Quixtar talks about being. Do I expect us to have everything we hope to the moment 9/1/99 rolls around. No. It is a new system and like all new systems I expect it will have some glitches. But, whether it is through Quixtar or another affiliation, the trend of e-mail shopping is here to stay.

Besides, with all due respect, why do you care so much anyway? If you don't want to participate you don't have to. Right? I do need to read more of your other e-mails because I don't know your whole history and it sounds like you have one with MLM. As it stands now though, if nothing else comes from my investment than over time I make it back through savings of my own, I'll be happy. But, the alternative is also rather appealing. I am an unbiased individual in all of this. I am also interested to see what happens on 9/1/99 and hope that even a fraction of the projections turn out to be true. I am doing research and trying to make sure I have all of the facts, so I do appreciate your web site. I just hope I find more info in yours to warrent the negative information that you are putting out that seems to be as loosely backed up as the claims you suggest are being made by Quixtar unfounded.

Part II

Okay (again) so I did just read your story and I apologize if I sounded like one of those ignorant people you refer to. I understand better where you are coming from and appreciate more the info you are sharing. I did wonder about the cost of functions and the cost of the tapes (since they all seem to say a lot of the same thing). However, I am lucky enough to be in an upline that seems to be genuinely interested in seeing eachother succeed and they share the tapes with each other and the books. I also hesitated a bit when I first started because everyone is so very nice and the "cult" connection did not escape me either because I am far away from my family. I do believe that Quixtar is going to change things some because a lot of what you are talking about will not be necessary so much. It really is a good plan, if it works. As I said in my prior note, if I just make back what I've paid, I will be happy.

Anyway, once again, I appreciate your comments and the efforts you are making to keep eyes wide open. I will take close heed of your warnings also and continue to do my homework so I can protect my investment. Please do not publish my note because I would hate to have anyone make the connection with my meeting tonight and the circumstances I've described. Thanks for your consideration. Best of luck to you. I will let you know how I make out.

My *boss* is now asking us to join Quixtar. After watching a silly 30 minute video about "The Future of Business" (those of you who have seen it, what information is actually IN THAT VIDEO?) we were encouraged to contact him for information about "residual" income. When I think "residual" I think residue. As in scum. Anyway, what can we do? What if he looks at his butt-kissing Quixtar suckers as most favored employees, while the stupid ones without vision (I guess that includes me) sit and play with themselves at home (as most Quixtars must think we do)? What about pressure? What about using COMPANY MONEY to fund his pipe dream of quick money? The future of business, indeed. Fantastic site. I showed it to a dozen people, and all but one of them was convinced. Still working on him. When you get time, could you show me the secret Proctor and Gamble handshake?

Dear Sir,

I don't know if I should laugh, cry or jump off the nearest building... obviously I've been reading all the Amway related information over the past few days and I just had no idea. Ive been a distributor for nearly four years and as you can imagine an unsuccessful one, what was I thinking (actually I wasnt) After being trained for so long not to have a "pity party" or be "negative", I'm finding this difficult so bear with me if I wander. I'm feeling so many different emotions right now I don't really know where to start. I feel sick and embarressed, I really thought I could help people and make a difference but all I was really doing was making my upline rich. Ive been on Amvox, SOT, BOM the works and even sold household items to get to a major function about 1000K's away. I've been a go-getter, done most things they told me to do and still failed, I was told to sponsor up, be more consistent it never occured to me that it might be the "systems" fault that this business wasnt working. After reading your site I feel relief and sadness that I wasn't only one Amway happened to......I dont feel like such a loser now. A small message to Amway Distributors bagging this web site, your not doing yourself any favours, you do actually sound like cult members and I should I know its exactly the same way I sounded only a few months ago. Go and ask your upline about the "tools scam" I did and I got an honest answer but then she justified it by saying, well until we go Diamond we can't change anything hmmmmmm. Don't listen to tapes for a month or attend any functions and see what happens oh and watch some TV. To all the people who hate Amway Distributors I say fair enough, in our defense though most of us thought we were going to do something good and honest, we were wrong. I spent over $15 000 trying to build my business and yes Im bitter and hurt but I'm also starting to feel free you can't believe the relief you feel when you say NO MORE. Two people in my group have renewed their distributorships this year, one of them is my Dad, is there a kind way to break this news because like me he has no idea either. Just so you know, this crap happens in Australia to and yes I'm part of Yaegers group. Thanks for letting me have my say I really needed it.

All the best and keep up the good work. Soon to be former Ambot *s*

We are a level headed, morally conscious, Christian family (mom,dad, 3 young kids) who have been Amway distributors for 2 & a half yrs. We will be building the Quixtar business come 9/1/99. We follow the business plan and the teaching of our upline. We follow the success principles taught to us, which can apply to any business or profession out there. This is a people business and there may be a few people out there who do not treat this business with the respect it deserves but that is the same in every profession. We do not condemn a whole profession just because one teacher or priest does something wrong. We blame the individual himself, don't we? But for some weird reason, people assume our whole business is flawed because of the few bad stories they hear. Stop judging the whole business based on a few bad stories. Consider the success stories. I personally have seen a lot of them. I have also seen some failures, not because of the business but because the people chose to give up on their dreams and would not put in the required effort it takes for success. And it does require effort. Anything worthwhile does, wouldn't you agree? I can understand where the negativity comes from. If I was weak and quit our business now I would probably be bitter too. I would be pointing out to others everything that I thought was wrong so I wouldn't have to blame myself for my failure. That is what people do. There are a lot of quitters out there, in everything... high school, college, university, jobs, marriages. It's no different in business. This is common sense stuff!! I know you may think you are providing a service but did you ever once think that maybe you are wrong. If I had been unfortunate enough to have listened to you and not began our business, my husband & myself would not be learning the skills we need to build a successful business, have a good relationship with eachother, our children and people we meet. Our children would not be learning how to work hard and to dream and pursue those goals & dreams, whatever they might be. Not to mention the income we would be missing. The friends we have made in this business have turned out to be more ethical and loyal to us than people that we know outside the business. It is not a mystery why, they learn these good principles through the books tapes and functions we attend. You yourself are not involved in this business. You are taking secondhand information (often from other people who are not in this business and do not understand it), you are looking for any inconsistencies in what others have said, twisting it and then you're spreading it around. I suggest to everyone, in anything they are looking into to check it out for themselves, not to listen to people like you who have not bothered get off their bottoms and find out for themselves. [And I would suggest to you, before you write such nonsense, that you click your mouse a few times and find out who I am. The information is available at mystory.htm. It just so happens I was a distributor for more than 10 years, and spent five years working for my upline diamond. So don't tell me I haven't "found out" for myself! I've found out far more -- from the inside -- than you're ever likely to!] This is a good, ethical business. I know because I have been involved for 2 &1/2 yr.. as an Amway IBO. We will be switching over to the Quixtar business because E-commerce is where we believe the future of distribution lies. There have been others who broadcast this sort of negative information and it later turns out they are on the payroll of competitive companies. [I assume you're referring to Sidney Schwartz. Have you even bothered to check out that what you're alleging is true, or are you just taking your wonderful ethical leaders' word for it? The man received some consulting fees -- a very small amount -- quite a few years ago. One time. Big deal. That is hardly "on the payroll." Amway is trying to prove some stupid conspiracy theory. They can't prove what doesn't exist.] What is your motive? I don't expect a response but I do expect that you post this for others to view. It just might make a few people check things out for themselves rather than relying on your information. [And I suppose you verify everything that your upline tells you, rather than relying on their information. Right.] I hope you can sleep at night knowing that you are responsible for stealing the hopes and dreams of people who are looking for a better life. I don't see you offering any alternatives!! [I sleep very well, thank you, knowing that I am helping many people avoiding wasting the years that I wasted and being controlled by the unscrupulous and deceitful "leaders" of the Amway Motivational Organizations. A good alternative would probably a part-time job at 7-Eleven. Have you made a profit yet in your business? You don't even mention that. Or are you doing it all for self improvement. . .]

I know you won't remember me, given the volume of mail you receive, but I wrote to you last November about the experiences my husband & I had in Amway. At the time I told you how my in-laws, who were our sponsors, were pressured into buying $2,000 worth of Double-X to complete their qualification for direct. When they went direct, they pushed their sponsor up to Emerald. This situation was the final straw for my husband & I, as my in-laws only had TWO active legs when they "went direct", and we felt they were pushed to go direct just so their sponsors could receive some hefty emerald bonus money, as well as an increase in system money. Well, we left the business, turning our downline over to my in-laws.

It has almost been a year since we went inactive (and we didn't renew our distributorship either, which surprisingly was not questioned by my in-laws), so I thought I would update you on the situation. My in-laws only qualified two out of the twelve months in the current fiscal year, which is about to end. And yes, they qualified because they were pressured to "buy up" for those two months. When their upline wanted them to "buy up" for a third month, my mother-in-law (who has become greatly disillusioned with the business) put her foot down and said no. As a result, they did not re-qualify as directs this year, and their sponsors will fall from emerald to sapphire. My in-laws finances are in a shambles, my father-in-law works six days a week, 14 hours a day and they can barely make ends meet because they are LOSING $1000-$1500 a month on their direct distributorship. Their relationship is also very strained; she would like to quit, but he wants to keep going. Neither my husband nor I can understand why they go on with it. They have even been screwed out of their "tape breaks" by their upline. And their accountant can't understand why their business continues to show a loss (in truth, it has never shown a profit in the past 8 years). He warned them that if they don't show on profit on their next Schedule C, they are risking problems with the IRS. (I am not an accountant, so I don't know what those problems would be---this is just what my mother-in-law told my husband).

All in all, it is such a sad situation. Yet I know, after reading so many other e-mails and visiting so many other sites, that it is the norm, rather than the exception. I just pray that sites like yours can help people see the truth behind the AMOs so they can avoid the pain my in-laws are going through.

It's so sad that you gave up on yourself and lowered your life to bashing the best business on Earth

We were hoping to read something about Primerica, but the pages are never available (won't come up after refreshing) on any search engine. Do you have any more information we could access, with the excepetion of their homepage? Thank you. We need this info ASAP

"Get a life" and leave the dreams of other alone

Hello. I thought I'd put in my two cents, being a new Quixtar recruit. I was approached about the Quixtar opportunity without a word about Amway. Being 23, a recent college graduate and unhappy with my current job, and still a little bit naive about the real world, I was lured in by promises of a six figure income within a year's time. I met with the guy who recruited me and a woman my age, and we talked about the wonderful and exciting opportunities I would have with this new company, Quixtar. I was given two video tapes of their "Industry Briefing" seminars they hold and an audio cassette entitled, "How Fortunes Are Made" by Paul Zane Pilzer. I was also shown article after article about how e-commerce is going to change the way business is run. It was pretty much a huge whirlwind of information and pressure and I felt as if I was being sucked in. The man who recruited me was also really good at playing on the tidbits of personal information I gave him. For example, I had expressed to him how important my family was to me. Little did I know that this is the whole idea Amway works around, you recruit families. I think he saw that I was a little homesick and that I had come from a big family, and he saw pay dirt! They immediately wanted me to attend one of their industry briefings, which I had planned to attend, but cancelled because of last minute reasons. Thank God I did, though. I'm afraid of where I would be now if I had attended that meeting. They eventually talked me into going to an industry briefing, and it was pretty scary. I would definitely say it was cultish. Has anyone noticed how they all use a lot of the same one-liners and the same stories over and over again? I felt like I was listening to a broken record!

Needless to say, I didn't get sucked in. Maybe I am not as naive about the business world as I thought I was. And if I am, at least I know that I have the common sense not to be involved with a scam like this!

Sincerely, Angry Quixtar Recruit

It has occured to me that if you spent half the time building an Amway business instead of bashing it, you could afford that staff of hundreds to maintain a decent web site. I've been involved with this business for 7 years, and I wouldn't trade that for anything. And no I',m not a Diamond, and no I haven't always made money, but that's only because I haven't always put in the effort that it takes to build a Big business. But I can tell you I've been involved with other traditional business that I have owned in the past, and I can guarantee you that there is not another business out there that can compare. Just look at all the business that start up every year and fail, how about all the people who enrolled in college and quit - does that mean college doesn't work, of course not! I have learned more about business by being in this business than from all my business admin. and mngt. courses in college, and have been able to take those principles that I learned from the "System" to help my other business ventures to be more successful. Yes the figures in the SA4400 show that the average person who becomes an IBO makes a small amount, but that includes all the people who got in (maybe thinking there was money in their kit) and never did anything, or maybe they just became a distributor just to buy their products at wholesale. The simple fact is that after reading your web site, all I see is someone saying this won't work, but isn't offering anything better. So why not just let people try it for themselves to see if it will work for them. Because believe me after seven years I haven't invested near as much as even one year of expenses, or capital that I have in some of my other "traditional businesses", but the return on investment has been so much greater.

All I know is that I am confident that I am offering the best business opportunity out there and no one has been able to show me anything better. Ain't It Great!

Now I will admit, I am new to this business (6 mo's) But what I have seen so far is encouragement and positive support. My wife and I have always kept a tight budget so we know what we spend on things. We are buying things through the system that we would otherwise buy somewhere else. We have gotten checks back for 60 to $100 . Now in my book that's more than I have ever gotten back from Costco or Safeway.

The point is I guess that I would never try to change your mind, you are quite convicted, and I admire that. I hope your quality of life is better than your angry attitude. Oh ...by the way....what have YOU done this week to improve our world or community?

Would love to hear back from you......if you have the courage.

I appreciate your response but I really did not want one. As per "my story", I am quite sure there are a lot of similar stories. The difference you see is that I read and follow the principles of Robertt Schuller's, Possibility Thinking. I'm not sure if you've ever read it but it's very good. From the title you can tell that it talks about not thinking negative. That just because one person has failed in their attempt for success, that you should not use that in determining your success. There is probably a lot more to her story. Going to every upline function and meeting is not a guarantee for success. I'd like to see how many plans she really did show, consistantly. Following success principles found in the 100's of books on the market is what you really need to succeed. It sounds like she has also failed at other things in her life. There is probably a lot more to her story that she lets on. The bottom line is she gave up. I know people who have built it right and have fully retired with a great lifestyle.

As far as Jeff P.'s comments, I have been all through his site and read his claims about the business expenses. Pretty accurate, but I know about of traditional business that have much much much higher expenses. And yes, some of them fail and go bankrupt and others persist and succeed. Just like in our business. Have you read the stats on small business bankruptcies lately??? What is the difference? Guts, hard work, doing what is uncomfortable and believing in what you are doing. My emerald, I know, earns over 10,000 a month and that is from his Amway income alone!! That really makes 9000/YEAR look like nothing in expenses. (My direct makes over 5000 a month Amway income alone.) It's all how you have structured your business

As far as the Sa-4400, the average income figure is based on the number of distributors with active ADA #'s. Have you ever heard of the 80/20 rule. Look it up sometime. It applies to everything in life. 80% of the work is done by 20% of the people. It's not something we made up, it's a common principle. How many of those 700,000 people never even showed the plan or even sponsored anyone. Many of them only got ADA#'s to buy products at wholesale. I know many people who have done that. Problem is that is screws up the average income. We have sponsored people that got their kit, got excited about a better life and then did nothing because they were afraid to call people or were too busy playing hockey, or didn't want to go out at night because they'd miss their favourite tv shows. That is their fault/ their choice but everyone of them will find an excuse why they did nothing. That is what people do. A small few will do what it takes and a majority will prefer to sit at home. That is why there are so many people on welfare and drop out of college, quit on marriages,etc.etc.etc. This is a people business, Ruth, and people are complicated.

You do not need to respond as we do not need or want to be "saved" by you. We are on the right path and nothing that anyone has written can say will make us change our beliefs. We have been brainwashed by society long enough that if we get a job we will be set for life. Well that isn't true. We've seen too many examples of people getting laid off before their pension, or before christmas.

This might be hard work and a lot of other people may have failed but the difference is we will not!! That is our choice. Sorry to disappoint you.

To whom it may concern... First of all, i am extremely glad I found your site... This quixtar thing that is supposed to be huge sounds like a huge fantasm of the e-commerce world...After reading your site and all the info on it, I have truly decided to pass on this program.... here are a few reasons why...(I apologize if I ramble on...)

I am from North Idaho, however I am currently living in Northeast Louisiana. I was approached about getting involved in Quixtar. The individual that brought me the information also extended me an invitation to go to one of the "meetings" last week (August 20, 1999)...He stated that he was one of the "first in the country to know about this" I thought the scenario seemed a bit "shady" so I didnt attend the meeting. The individual tried to get me to sign up before the meeting and be his so called "partner" in it, handling his computer and web work. I told him I would get back to him. Just this evening, an old friend from back home in Idaho approached me on AOL with the same scenario... he said "you should sign up with me right now... give me the OK and I will sign you up tonight at the meeting"... I guess the "meeting" was up in North Idaho this evening (August 24, 1999)... he stated that he was one of the "first to know about this program in the nation".... Havent I head this before?

I took it all into consideration, and when I asked a few questions, like how do I make money? or what can I expect... ? or what do I have to pay to enter...? I got null for an answer...?

I am a college student, and need to save every penny that I earn or have... sorry Quixtar... but I havent heard enough info at all to take a chance... and I think my friends have royally been FOOLED by this AMWAY in desguise program that will bring them TONS of money, however, the people involved who try to recruit their friends might end up extremely lonely soon... I feel there will be alot of friendships lost over this one..........

Thanks, I will stick to my college education... and while my friends are broke and wondering why their "pot of gold opportunity" was gone just as fast as it began....well, you get the picture!

I apologize if I rambled on senselessly

Thank You for your time,

Having been an AMWAY distributor for several years I see your comments as typical amongst the many, many previous accusations, legal attempts & other things 'barraged' at the AMWAY corporation, or possibly just its' founders Dick Devos & Jay VanAndel. While I understand perfectly how and why you feel the way you do, it is obvious to me that you have NEVER thought out just whay they developed the company the way they did. It also shows me that you honestly DO NOT care about anyone else other than yourselves. The AMWAY concept, be it in its' original 'distributor recruitment' form or the newest form that utilizes the INTERNET to accomplish much more of the same, is the absolute best way to take advantage of what our government allows business people of all kinds to take advantage of in the simplest manner possible. It does cost, as does any franchise, or other type business you are able to 'buy into' in the U.S., but the reciprocal effect (which most people never notice or simply choose to ignore, or even get upset about) is that your efforts in any AMWAY business actually HELPS those you 'recruit'. NO OTHER BUSINESS DOES THIS. Not many typical businesses, with their pyramidical structure; i.e CEO >PRESIDENT>VICE PREDIDENT>UPPER LEVEL MGR.>LOWER LEVEL MGR.>MANAGER>SUPERVISOR & THE LOW LEVEL 'PION' do anything NEAR to this. Please tell me that whatever business you work for actually rewards you each time you increase business. You CAN'T, can you???Well, AMWAY does do that.

Get real gentleman & ladies, if you pass this by you are truly disclosing your ignorance to the entire internet community. Good luck in your present "job"s.

I like your site very much and you have every right to have a site of this nature. I know a lot of people who gets very nice monthly checks from amway in the thousands, and don't work crazy hours and long commutes to get that money. For $99.00 I don't see the harm in trying to have a dream. I guess picking up extra shifts at Wal-Mart would be a better choice in your eyes for trying to make money. My wife and I used to sit in front of the TV all night long doing nothing productive. Now we spend time to together working on OUR business, it has actually helped our marriage. People by Mcdonald's franchises for hundreds of thoudsands of dollars and it takes them many many years to make turn a profit. I understand that you must not have been able to be a success in amway but maybe you never tryed. Oh well, life goes, on harboring so much resentment will lead you to a short and unhappy life.

Freedom of speech you got to love it.

Thank You... After reading Nightmare Builders I will ask for a refund on the purchase of a starter kit last night. You have hit the nail on the head,and discribed the very things that I feared and noted at the meetings I've been to. I just hope I can obtain a refund. Once again thank you for your efforts

I was reading your articles about Equinox. I understand that their marketing practices were unethical, but one of their products releives my father of serious arthiritis pain. Can you please help me get my hands on as much of this product as possible as they obviously will not be making it any more?

Hi, What is the latest information on Primerica that you have in this website? My wife and I were introduced to this MLM a few days ago and we are researching the bad as well as the good on them Thanks!

Hello

Just wanted to drop you a line. Im also a Amway IBO but changing to Quixtar. I have no problem with your site I actually send people to it so they can see both sides of the story. Theres problem's with any business. Ask me Im a man who owened a franchise at one time you talk about a scam maybe you should start a sight about that business. I have talked to alot of people in the same possition as me and you wouldn't belive what iI have heard. For all the people who think Amway and the system is bad you should try the franchise system of ownership what a joke.

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This page updated Aug-25-99