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The following posts have been reprinted in their entirety from posts e-mailed by readers of this website, except that headers, names and locations have been removed. These posts express the opinions and experiences of their authors, and this site publisher makes no representations about them in any way whatsoever. Re: Quixtar Hey, Really struggled to find you in the search listings, last week you were in the top ten now your buried 5 or 6 pages down. Don't you think it's time to give up this personal crusade and do something constructive with your life, after all you're never going to compete with all those positive quixtar sites now are you? Have you had a look at the site, I think it's quite impressive, what about you? PS. This is not spam, I'm from the UK (yes I'm an amway distributor in the UK, I'm actually a happy one which is something yopu seem to report doesn't exist, and no I'm not a Diamond raking it in, but we are making enough NET PROFIT to allow my wife to stay home and bring up our son, which is what she wanted to do.). We don't have quixtar yet so you can't get in with me so I'm not promoting anything at all to you. We will of course have quixtar in the next couple of years and we can't wait, what a forward thinking move by one of the greatest companies in the world, in my humble opinion. All the best for your future

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Re: Amway/Quixtar

I accidently stumbled upon you site this past week while researching Quixtar. It is appearant that a lot of work has gone into the site which leads me to this question. Why? Obviously you have a vendetta against the Amway Corp. or it's people. That is fine and I am not here to tell you otherwise. I just would like some back round on you before I start believing you views.

Are you an individual, or is there a group that mans this site? Do you do this full time? Please give me some backround...

I am a 32 yr old professional who has recently signed up in Amway and now Quixtar. I make a very comfortable living but saw potential in making a dual income so that is why I joined. I have had instant success. I realize everyone is not cut from the same cloth and that is fine by me. I know I will succeed. I already am. From my short time in this business (three weeks/ 14 IBO's under me) I see that most people only will go half or quarter speed and that slows them down. I read some of your emails and it appears that people stupidity is what misled them along the way. I could be wrong of course. I have a mind of my own and make my own decisions. But, some of these people appear to be week. ie., If you dont have the money, dont buy the tapes. That college kid wasnt't too bright. You mentioned in your articles about some IBO's who misled people or "lied." My response is... Let's take the Roman Catholics. Well, if one priest gets caught doing something wrong, dont punish them all. Same thing with Amway, (I think it is the largest MLM around), well I am sure their are some IBO's misleading people, Don't punish all of them. There is bound to be mis information and some bad apples in Every bunch.

I would just like some insight from you to better understand you stance on Amway/Quixtar.

Re: Kevin Trudeau

I'd like to give my opinion concerning a negative and very sarcastic letter I just read about Mr. Kevin Trudeau. Being raised in a very loving supportive middle-upper middle class family, I was brought up to "not cast the first stone", "not to throw rocks in glass houses" and "to forgive those that have made mistakes along the way".

My parents have been successful Amway distributors for the past 20 years and in the 80's were introduced to Kevin Trudeau. They became friends with Mr. Trudeau, even though their businesses did not join. Throughout the years my parents have "practiced what they preached" and remained friends with Kevin, spending quality time with him whenever schedules would permit.

Three years ago Kevin and my father were having lunch, chatting about business and family. My dad told Kevin that he was concerned about his daughter's safety as she drove a very old 'modified' van across the state of Florida to visit him. He explained the situation of his daughter being a quadriplegic, living an independent lifestyle on a fixed income.

At that time my parents were nearing retirement age and decided to cut down on some of their business activities. Without hesitation Mr. Trudeau offered to pay for a brand new van for the disabled daughter. Within a few months the van was purchased and modified with a fully accessible system for a wheelchair driver.

Kevin Trudeau has also treated my parents with the utmost of respect, has been generous at picking up the tab when dining out and has taken my father on the most fantastic fishing trip of his life. I will always be grateful to Kevin for the respect and compassion he has shared with my family.

Signed, A very happy disABLED woman, who drives a beautiful new van.

Hiya,

I have a friend who got involved in Omegatrend and I am worried that he has not had access to an independant and informed viewpoint on how the company works. I think also one of the big sell-points for him was that "It's not Amway". I have read on your site that it *is* in fact Amway based(even if they aren't associated), and I think he needs to know some more details on what he's getting himself into.

My biggest hope for him (and my biggest worry) is that he already has another job... My hope is that since it is just easier to get up and go to work rather than chase potential customers, his interest in Omegatrend will eventually fizzle... but my worry is that since he can actually afford motivational type tools that he may get brainwashed.

But I can't think of anything harder than to get a MLM company working in an isolated rural area in Australia, as is the situation with my friend... I'm really really hoping he will run out of steam and get on with his life.

I need some links which focus more on "Why this is *not* a good business idea (at least for the people on the bottom)", rather than the "How to leave a cult" type links, which I'm sure he would find offensive!!

THanks for your help, and keep up the good work.

Re: Amway/Quixtar

I wanted to write this for all current distributors, and to distributors who are battling with the "should I quit" question. I don't know if this is a plea, a criticism, or just an explanation of what happens when you are in amway. And I don't mean to generalize amway as if it were a disease, it is important to note that amway's tactics, their AMO leaders use teaching tactics that result in something like a disease. It is a disease of the mind.

As you can well see, most of the arguments on this site revolve around the business of amway. Is it good? Is it bad? To be quite honest and frank with you, I could care less. Businesses will succeed and fail because that is life. Good businesses are usually well organized and sell a good product well. I'm not writing this to discuss business. I want to point out to the readers something that is embarrassing to me, but also something that, as I look upon it, has helped me understand how we think.

I am an ex-distributor. I am full of amo double-speak and I know what tapes, books, S&R, functions, go-getters, quitters, Rhinos, losers, diamonds, pearls, emeralds, etc. are. I know that I'm not a quitter, I am someone who chooses. I choose to write this because right now I have the time. That's it, no agenda, no response, no bitterment, but there is sadness and regret for those whom I hurt and for time and friends that I lost. Someone on the radio said the other day, "this is life, lighten up!" I don't know exactly how to do that. If I knew how to lighten up I never would have joined amway, but I did because I thought I was different. Which brings me to my point.

Those who are reading this can look back at the previous sent e-mails. I wrote a message in group 1 under a sub-heading that you wrote: "this writer put a lot of thought into this. . ." I would like the distributors to read this to see what I said. As I look back at it myself, it makes my stomach cringe, I really had no idea what I was saying. I believed in what I was doing, in what I was saying, but everything I said sounds like an amo tape.

I've been looking over all the pro-amway e-mails and so many of them are full of thoughtful, well-meant words. Distributors are caring and motivated people. Distributors are also pushy and rude. People are caring. People are rude. There really is no difference. Amway distributors, however, are like children who repeat bad words, or children who copy things that they see on TV. They are impressionable and gullible, searching and hoping for every meaning to life, for everything they do to relate back to amway. They think that they are destined for the business, they think that they are winners. But just as I thought I was a winner, I thought I would never make it outside amway. Look back at what I wrote. It's scary!

What I regret most about being in amway is the fact that I stopped thinking. I allowed tapes and speakers to speak for me. For example, in group e-mail #36 there is a response to your website that begins "It has occured to me that if you spent..." Let's look at this response.

The first sentence I can guarantee you came from an upline speaker or tape. If you spent half the time building this business instead of bashing it...That's a tape speaking. Look at the second sentence--"and no, I'm not a Diamond...but that's only because I haven't always put in the effort to build a BIG business." This sentence saddens me. This person is really in trouble, probably cries every night before he goes to bed, probably wishes and wishes he could build the business, and somehow, a tape, a speaker has convinced him that he's not working hard enough. What hogwash! I thought the same thing, but this person needs to realize that he is a hard worker. Why should a direct or diamond make him feel guilty for not working?

The 3rd and 4th sentence talk about failed businesses and college. Again, those are arguments he heard in a meeting, or on a tape. Did he really come up with that argument on his own? Did he really research this business and say, I'm doing this because college doesn't work for some?

He claims that his "other" business ventures have been more successful because of amway and its teachings. How? And where did that argument come from? I used to say the same thing. I used to say that amway made me more successful outside of amway, but in reality, it didn't. Why? Because I wasn't thinking for myself. In other people's eyes (outside my family and friends), of course, I looked like a winner. But what they heard from me was a tape, a book, but not my mind. What they thought was great was the double-speak of well written words and well-rehearsed speeches.

Near the end this writer argues, "all I see is someone saying this won't work, but isn't offering anything better." Where did that come from? I know, because I heard the same thing in a meeting, I heard my direct say the same thing to me. Is this writer talking, or is it a tape? What does another offer have to do with anything?

Ain't It Great! And where did that come from? This is my point, even if you are reading this and shaking your head. Are your arguments for the business yours, or are they the arguments of a tape, book, speech. I thought when I was in amway I thought for myself, but I realize that I thought through a tape. This is the danger that sickens me, and this is the danger that frightens me. I'm not writing this because I think I can argue better than an amway distributor, I write it because I'm afraid for you. If that statement does anything I hope it just makes you think.

I know all the amo arguments and defenses. I know what people used to say to me as they shut doors in my face. I know how my family looked at me as if they lost their son and wondered if he'd ever come back. I know how I looked at everyone else when I was a distributor and felt sympathy for them, because I thought they were missing out on the greatest business alive. And now I feel sympathy for current distributors, because they believe so passionately in their dreams. Because finally! finally someone has asked them to write down their dreams, to talk about them and make them seem real. All I went, I presume, is for someone out there to understand that dreams are our hidden secrets. You can boast about it, you can write it down, you can sleep on it, and you can keep it quiet. Every day a person dreams, a mother about her new born baby, a father about his son. A teenager about a new car, and a football player about a touchdown. One person I know looks forward to playing soccer everday, simply because he can. And no, it's not because he has a lot of money.

There is no money in a dream. There is now way to defend a dream. You don't have to. It doesn't come from a tape, and it doesn't come from a book. You cannot make it come true by saying you will. It will not happen by saying it won't. Dreams are those special feelings that only we know about, and there isn't a tape/book/S&R/Function/or item of money that can buy that. This website cannot steal it. Your upline cannot give it to you.

What is my point and what is my plea? I wrote to you again in group e-mail 3. I am the fast learner with the lengthy discussion. Since that time I have watched and listened. I know that Quixtar is out there. I also know that the other day a friend of my brother "contacted" him. From what my brother said, nothing has changed. I hope that this is a warning. I don't hate amway distributors and I don't hate anti-amway sites. I think it is interesting to see how we can all make lengthy discussions out of nothing. I don't understand why I am missing out on the greatest business opportunity, and why if I did miss it that would bother me. I am not an mlm survivor, I am not a bitter ex-distributor. I am not a loser or a quitter or someone that gave up on my dream. I am simply someone with an opinion, and wondering if anyone out there will listen.

Amway is not a perfect business. Amway is not a bad business. But that is not a reason to stay in. Why are you really there? And before you answer that, think for a second before a tape is the reply, before your upline's voice echoes in your head. Why are you really there? Do you really know?

Nope just getting started, but where else can a guy willing to do the work and put in the time have the opportunity to retire. Even if it takes 11 years like Larry Winters, faith and works pays off. You've obviously found your little niche in life, and I applaud you for that, you are correct in you belief that for the average joe on the street no mlm is worth his time. The average joe is looking to get rich quick, no such thing. The life a diamond leads is second to none and even you must admit this. I'm not sure I have what it takes, but thanks to you and your companion sites I have encouragement that if I'm willing to stick it out I'll succeed, noone you've mentioned had a problem with the corporation, just the people and I long ago learned to put principle before personallities. Thanks for the info and the encouragement. Keep up the good work.

Thanks for taking the time toreply Actually loved your site(don't tell my upline{:>}I prefer having both sides of the story. Can't make an informed decision without them. Keep up the good work

Re: Amway/Quixtar

Wow Ruth, what happened to you to make you so angry with a company? This anger isn't good for you, have you read "Seat of the Soul"? If you put in as much effort to just about anything else, as you do to slamming Amway/Quixtar, you would be very successful !!

Re: Amway and ProNet

I know the breakdown of tools profits for upline directs, emeralds and diamonds within ProNe. In ProNet, all new IBOs are informed up front that their upline directs, emeralds and diamonds buy tapes for less than $6. You worked for one diamond. I don't know the structure, width and depth of his businesses, nor do I know anything about his tool business, so I can't comment on it.

I do know my upline direct keeps 50 cents of every tape I buy. I buy two per week on the standing order program, so that's $1 per week he makes off my tape purchases, or $52 per year. Whoopee. He has about 100 people in his group. That means he makes about $5,200 a year off of standing-order tapes. He makes about $75,000 from Amway a year as a year-round Ruby Direct. I don't know about your calculator, but on mine, $75,000 is bigger than $5,200 every time. Yeah, I know, that doesn't include income from meetings, books, seminars, etc..., but there's no way it can add up to $75,000 a year, much less more than that.

Meanwhile, because I do virtually all of my shopping through Amway/Quixtar, I generate about 450 BV per month. There is a 4000-level IBO between me and my ruby direct, so he is at the 21 percent bonus level and my ruby direct is at the 28 percent level because he is a ruby. 28 percent minus 21 percent = 7 percent -- so his income from my purchases is about $32 per month, not including his Ruby bonus, his Founders Ruby bonus, and his other bonuses for running ruby volume 12 months out of the year. My upline 4000's 21 percent comes to about $94 -- but that is shared with me, of course, because I am somewhere between zero and 4,000 on the PV chart.

So, my Direct makes about $32 a month of my product purchases and $4 a month off my tape purchases. I think -- I'm not sure, but I think $32 is bigger than $4. Now, say he gets all $5 from the monthly open meeting ticket, and all $15 from the monthly seminar. He doesn't, of course, but if he did, he still is earning more off my purchases than off my system participation.

I don't know what my upline Emerald keeps. Probably $1 per tape. That's $104 per year. Again, whoopee. He spent more than that on one airline ticket to come to my city and do a large home meeting for me -- probably triple or quadruple that amount when you consider airfare, hotel, meals, rental car, etc...

He tells a story that perfectly illustrates why bigger pins should make a profit off tools -- a revenue source available, incidentally, to all people in the business if they build their business to direct or above.

He lives in Dallas, and had a downline in Austin who was on the system but often complained about the cost of the tapes. The downline, I'll call him "Jim," asked Pat to come to Austin to do a large home meeting for him. Pat said he would, for $125. The guy nearly choked and said, "You mean I gotta pay you to do a meeting for me?" Yes,Pat responded, because it would reimburse hime for the cost for gas, a hotel, meals, etc..., as well as partially compensate him from time away from his family.

Well, Jim was about to go ballistic, when Pat said, "That's okay Jim, you don't have to pay it .. we have a system that reimburses us for those expenses."

You worked for a diamond, so you have knowledge of his business affairs. I dated a girl who worked for a large convention hotel here in Nashville -- a site of many Amway distributor conventions. I asked her to look at the cost of meals/rooms/etc., versus what distributors are charged. Guess what -- she looked at several different conventions, including some ProNet, some Britt Worldwide, and some Yager, and found that in every case distributors were getting a bargain. Most non-Amway conventions of that size charged their attendees at least 50 percent more. Her analysis -- the diamonds make some money off of conventions, but not a fortune, when you subtract from the fees what the hotel charges the diamonds for the rooms, meeting space, meals for the IBOs and set-up/tear-down and cleaning service.

Do Diamonds make money for speaking at conventions? I sure hope so. I sure hope that when I am a Diamond, no one would have the gall to ask me to take a weekend and fly to some city, stay in a hotel, make speeches and stay up late greeting people for no money at all. I once attended a Century 21 real estate convention and they had motivational speakers in -- not even people who had any real estate experience, just motivational speakers. I am sure they paid those people.

I guess we just disagree on the value of the tools.

I go back to this -- I can not train people all over the country with the skills they need to build a people network very quickly if I have to drive or fly all over the country to do it. I can, however, offer them an inexpensive training system that they can access at their own pace and on their own time, much as I did.

I often listen to tapes at 2 a.m., when I finally have a spare 30 minutes. I don't imagine my upline diamond wants me to call him at 2 a.m. to ask his advice. So I buy a tape from him and he makes a little money on it and I learn how to build a large Quixtar business that will allow me to retire at 36 years of age. To me, that's a bargain -- and even better, I save more on products than the system costs me because I am loyal to shopping through my own business. So I get invaluable business advice from multi-millionaires for, essentially, free. That never happened in my regular job. (I don't currently have a regular job -- besides Quixtar, I consult for an Internet content company that helps web sites develop "sticky" customers. I used to be a business journalist, so when I looked at Amway and now Quixtar, I had access and the know-how to research it far more deeply than almost anyone.)

My main complaint with your site is that when there is a development that undermines your attacks you don't post them.

For example, your site remarks that five partner stores doesn't sound much like a big virtual mall. But of course, Quixtar opened with 50 partner stores, with incredible variety and major names, and the company has repeatedly said it would be adding more as time goes by. Your site should reflect that information but it doesn't. [As a point of information, I tried for nearly two weeks before I could get this information, because the site was so inaccessible. . .] The announcement of the first five stores was what in the news business is called a "teaser." It was also good PR -- it generated news stories in advance of the Quixtar launch.You get more stories by announcing stores in small batches, rather than all at once.

Also, your site mentions Quixnet and hints that the "family friendly" ISP is Amway's attempt to filter out sites like yours. That just isn't the case. Quixnet is the same as many other "family friendly" ISPs. It filters out pornography, hate-group sites, etc..., and the filtering is controlled by the subscriber, not by the ISP. And Amway doesn't even own Quixnet, to the best of my knowledge. They are merely a reseller or marketer of the service, just as they are of MCI long distance. The only difference here is, the service has been co-branded with a Quix--- name. Of course, MCI service through Amway is called "Amway MCI" and the voice messaging service is not owned by Amway, but by Voice-Tel, but they call it "Amvox."

If you are going to run a site attacking Amway, Quixtar and the tools side of the business, you should at least make every effort to be accurate. Errors like those undermine your credibility.

One more thing on the tools system. I believe that Quixtar will widen the gap between Diamonds' tool income and Quixtar income, with Quixtar income growing much larger than system income. Let me explain why:

Quixtar makes so much sense --

1. People shop online because it is more convenient and the prices are better. Compared to the Amway business, it will attract more people.

2. The new client-member-IBO structure allows for people who want access to good prices, products and convenience to do so and they won't be urged to particpate in the system. The old Amway business really had no such place for such people. You either got in to build it, or didn't.

3. Because E-commerce is so hot right now, there will be many people who become IBOs and refer the business to other people casually, without intending to build large businesses, but will be IBOs instead of members because the cost differential is so small. (It is $20 to be a member, $100 to be an IBO, but each new IBO gets a voucher for $70, so the cost to be an IBO is really only $10 more than to be a member.)

4. I tell people who want to be members, not builders, to go ahead and pay to be an IBO because it doesn't cost much more and if they like the site and the prices and the convenience they are just naturally going to tell someone about it so they might as well make at least a little money for doing so.

5. Only those people who become IBOs for the express purpose of building it are urged by me to participate in the training system.

As a result, I truly believe there will be "accidental directs" in Quixtar, people who get an IBO because it's only $10 more than a membership, and they refer four or five friends to the site, and a couple of those people decide to really build it. Hell, it's easy to show the plan now -- the site has a link to a series of pages that shows the plan for you.

So you can see how it is quite possible that there will be numerous people making $10,000 or $25,000 a year just casually building a Quixtar business without really getting into the system.

Well... enough of this. You have your opinion and I have mine. In my opinion, it is okay for the Diamonds, Ems and directs to make money off the tools for the same reason it is okay for the grocery to make money off food. They provide a valuable product or service and deserve to make a profit off of it.

Consider this: my father owns a printing and copy shop. A franchise of a big chain. He paid tens of thousands of dollars for one high-speed copier, in hopes of turning a profit at 6 cents per copy. Xerox made money off that "tool." Yet my father has no control over whether it will be profitable. He can't control how many people come in and how many copies they purchase. He can't control whether the competitor down the street cuts his price to 5 cents a copy, forcing my dad to lower his profit margin or lose all the business. And he can't control whether or not another competitor opens up nearby, and takes away a third of his business.

Now my dad is a Quixtar IBO. He spent a couple hundred bucks to register and get our tool system starter box and he spends about $200 a month on tools and meetings. He CAN control how many plans he shows. He CAN control whether or not he shows the plan and the web site to enough people to register 10 of them. He CAN control whether he helps them show enough people to register 10 each. And he CAN control whether or not he helps his frontline ten people learn how to teach their frontline how to show the plan. In other words, my dad has tens of thousands of dollars in a copier that is nothing more than a Las Vegas-sized roll of the dice, but only a few hundred in a business where he absolutely CAN control the outcome.

Your site says not everyone can make it in Amway/Quixtar. Of course, that is wrong. Everyone who is an IBO today can become a diamond, emerald, direct, or whatever pin and income level they seek. To become a Diamond, they merely need to sponsor 6 people and help each of the six build a network of about 75-100 families who want to shop at a discount, have stuff delivered to their home, and have the right to do the same thing.

Anyone can do it, but not every one will.

One other problem I have with the anti-Amway sites is they tend to define success in Amway/Quixtar as Diamond. There are tens of thousands of emeralds and directs who make excellent incomes, and hundreds of thousands of people for whom an extra $1,000 a month = a huge raise, relief from debt and an upgraded lifestyle. My upline 4000 makes enough now that his wife no longer needs to work. They save money on daycare and she is home with their child every day, which is the reason she got in the business in the first place. Their Quixtar income, minus their tools expenses, still is enough to allow her to quit a good CPA job, especially when you factor in savings on day care costs. (They save on day care about what they spend on tools, so once again, the business system is essentially a freebie for them.)

Enough... I've written a novel.

Have a great week!

I have an interesting experience. I was setting out on the quest of setting a web design client up with a catalog of links, some to e-commerce.

At a Kinko's I met a guy who said he was with an outfit starting an online mall.

We traded business cards. In a mood to accept risk and manifest success (and- I admit -with my bullshit detector off) I actually paid for an IBO.

I guess it was because I wanted something to work and I was listening to myself instead of to this guy, who was just all positive.

In the process of deeper questioning and working through issues related to online marketing, I quickly got to a "Wait a minute!" point and asked for my money back. The guy wasn't so quick on the follow through and I haven't seen the credit card statement yet to tell whether or not I actually have a rebate. He did say he was eager to please on that point.

There is supposed to be a bunch of people in Austin working on this website technology, but here I am in the same town and instead of good solid answers to basic web strategy questions, I get revival tent smiles and answers that sound a lot like "better minds than ours have figured this out".

This is a town where people regularly speak to levels of technical detail that would kill most people.

Have you heard anything from the Austin situation?

Re: Quixtar

An error message 404 is received stating that the site cannot be located. Be give me the log-on address for Quixtar. I have an IBO number.

Re: Trek Alliance

So you have to knock people down instead of beat them huh. I am with trek alliance and have met Kale Flagg and Rich Von, and I have never once heard them gloat or boast about there money. They are family oriented and love what they do. They left equinox, cause the owner is a looser. I have been very successful and have only been with Trek for 4 months. I am glad you have your 43k a year job, i just can't wait to make that a month. I would rather invest in my future instead of someone elses. Why don't you try to outrun people instead of put them down!!

As we're Direct's we are responsible for our own organisation.

What I can tell you is we don't make any money out of selling tapes, books or seminar tickets.

The only income we make from our business is from our net retained amway bonus and 4% royalty cheques, we've even helped downline go Emerald and make more money than us!!! so perhaps not all amway is the same???

I think this is the main reason your site upsets us so much, you do tar everyone with the same brush, and we're not all the same.

I also don't think the vast majority of organisations are anything like as bad as you paint them to be, sure you'll always find people who didn't make it in amway, you do in all walks of life.

That doesn't make them losers in life though, well that's not what we promote anyway.

In my own experience the people who did not succeed did not do the work to succeed, or they wanted to do it their own (untested) way and their way did not work, but that's their own fault, not their upline's and certainly not amway's.

by the way What DID you think of the quixtar site, I've answered your question now you answer mine.

All the best,

We all think we are doing the right thing, but people who bash others are never right. You are trying to make a wonderful organization look bad because of a couple people out of a million. There is no way you will ever make that right, and Tripod will suffer more than it will gain.

Nothing you can say will ever change that.

Re: Amway

I am sure you will not keep this because it is not negative about Amway. I have been in Amway for 7 years. I have gone to functions and bought the tapes. I don't have a pen level because I did not show the Amway plan to anyone. But I have grown as a person from the books and tapes and if I never make a dime I got other benefits. You don't have to go anywhere you don't want to WE DO LIVE IN AMERICA. You don't have to buy anything if you choose not to. If you choose to buy tapes and go to functions and you feel it did not work. Quit! How many tapes and functions can you go to or get for free. You paid for them. GET OVER IT. If you have tapes you never opened they couldn't have done you any good. Why as an intelligent adult did you keep buying something you did not use. Ever opportunity can be good or bad. Every Business has people with different personalities in it. If they brain washed you why are you not diamonds? Because it isn't brain washing. People who make choices take chances. How long will you sit around and cry about something you failed at. GET OVER IT. LIFE DOES GO ON.

I think I've found the main points of disagreement between the pro-system and anti-system people through our exchanges.

They are:

1. You only consider Diamonds to be making "big money". But I consider anywone who achieves their goals through the business to be successful. My upline Ruby makes more than the average salary of 99 percent of all Americans from Amway. He has the freedom to retire at any time and he is only 32 years old. Remember, the plan shows how to go Diamond, but it also shows how to go Direct and Emerald. Interestingly, you allege that directs lose money. But every single direct I know -- and I know 27 of them in various parts of Amway (ProNet, Britt, etc...) all have profitable businesses. How do I know? In general, by looking at their lifestyles, knowing they don't work regular jobs, or their wives retired young.

2. You tend to look at the system almost entirely from cost while I look at it from a cost and benefit analysis and assess that for me the tools are worth more than I pay for them.

3. I don't mind my upline making money off the system, especially the tapes. Why would I go to some seminar put on by non-Diamond/non-Amway distributors to learn how to build an Amway business? What can they teach me? Also, you are wrong that in most businesses the industry doesn't make money off of training. Real Estate companies put on conventions and seminars, charge their own agents for them, and make money off them -- and the speakers include hugely successful real estate brokers ("big pins"), who are, no doubt, paid to be there.

4. You don't believe everyone can "make it," whereas I do. All you have to do is build three groups of customers/distributors who collectively purchase and/or sell 7,500 pv worth of products each month and you are a diamond. Anyone can do that, but not everyone does or will. Remember the model -- sponsor six, help them sponsor four each, help them sponsor two each, and if average spending per person is 100 pv per month, that's a direct. Can anyone find six people? Yes. Can anyone help each of those six find four? Yes. And so on...

5. Your analysis must be flawed as to Diamonds making more off the system than off product flow. A diamond with 1,000 people in his group, making $2 per tape, would make $208,000 a year off of tapes if every distributor bought two per week, which we all know doesn't happen. But a group of 1,000 people each hitting 100/200 pv/bv per month would generate far more income from products. The Diamond would get a minimum of 7 percent on all that bv -- and that's a minimum if every single one of his frontline were directs, he'd get the 3 percent differential between their direct bonus (25 percent) and his ruby bonus (28 percent) plus the 4 percent residual off each direct leg. That alone would be $168,000 a year. A ha! you say, that is less than the $208,000 tape income. Yes it is. But you know and I know that not every single person in a diamond's frontline goes direct. Some will go 2,500 and stop. So he gets a higher percentage off that business. And there are also Saphire, Emerald, and Diamond bonuses, Founders Direct, Founders Sapphire, Founders Emerald and Founders Diamond bonuses, and scads of free trips worth thousands and thousands of dollars. So that $168,000 is waaay low. (My emerald makes $22,000 a month from Amway -- that's $264,000 a year, and that doesn't include his various Amway bonuses, only his monthly checks. As he goes Diamond, his tool income will increase, but so will his product income. If every distributor is conscientious and shops almost exclusively through the catalogs (and they should -- the prices are almost uniformly better), product income would always oustrip tool income.

THe problem is, too many people get in, do about 22 pv a month and buy everything else at Wal-Mart; buy tools but rarely show the plan and at the end of the year add up the numbers and say, "this doesn't work and it's costing me money." They're right, it's costing them money. Any business costs money. I just am a little smarter than those people -- I show the plan. I pass out for free tapes that I paid $6 for because I understand a basic organizing principle of economics: the speed of information flow dictates the speed of economic growth.

Let me tell you a quick story about two of my downline IBOs. One is a broke single mom barely making ends meet in residential real estate. The other is a couple who are comfortably middle class, nice home in the 'burbs, etc... The single mom, I'll call her Pam, drove from Philadelphia to Nashville for the sole purpose of asking me to see the plan and meeting my upline. Then she scraped up the entry fee and got started. She drove from Philadelphia to Dallas for her first convention, cleaned houses to pay for her second convention in Houston, and drove to both New Orleans and Atlanta for the next two. She buys and listens to 2 tapes a week. She buys the books. She attends the opens. She attends the seminars. She buys extra tapes to learn from, and buys various prospecting brochures, tapes, etc., sold by Pronet. She also subscribes to Amvox and checks her messages daily. Because she is broke, she spends about 50 pv per month. But she is loyal to her own business -- if she's buying it and Amway sells it, she gets it through Amway.

The other IBO, call them the Smiths, don't come to anything. They don't buy tapes. They don't listen to tapes if I send them some. They are not on Amvox voice mail. They sure aren't reading books like "The Magic of Thinking Big."

Last month, Pam sponsored a dozen people into Amway because of the coming of Quixtar and because, having listened to the tapes and gone to the seminars and opens, she knows the latest information about Quixtar, e-commerce, the economy, etc... and there is no question she is not prepared to give a consise, factual answer to. (She knows what's going on in the economy as well as I do and I was a business journalist for 10 years.)

Last month, the Smiths sponsored no one. Mrs. Smith did sell a few boxes of some new product to her neighbor, and they did almost 200 pv. Then she called me to ask me why her bonus check wasn't bigger than she though it would be. I got the message on my answering machine and called back and had to explain to her that she hadn't hit 300, so someone upline from her kept the difference between her 3 percent and their 6 percent. Then she also asked me over the phone, long distance, how to explain Quixtar to people. Like I could explain that over the phone in 5 minutes. I did my best. They still haven't sponsored anyone. She called me two days ago to say she understand Quixtar. I suggested she sign up for Amvox and the weekly tape program and attend the monthly seminar and one open per month at a minimum, so she could learn how to build the business.

"I don't have a business," she said.

Until she takes it seriously, and takes it upon herself to learn the business from people who know the business, she's right, she doesn't have a business. Pam, on the other hand, will in all probability hit silver this month and Direct (now called Platinum) in six months.

I've shown exaclty 6 plans for Pam. My uplines have shown about 6 more for her. Because she invested in the educational system and the great prospecting tools ProNet offers, she's going to build a large income without very much help from me. All I did is tell her the day she saw the plan that if she wanted to succeed, there was a training system that if she wanted to she could avail herself of. She did, and the benefit to her is already far ahead of the cost she has incurred. (Incidentally, I've invested more than $1,000 in supplying tools to her because her group was growing fast and she needed them but the real estate market is pretty soft and she hadn't sold a house in awhile. I guess I'm one of those greedy people trying to make money selling tools, huh?).

I am not, and never have been, an Amway Distributor. I have been approached, more than once, by Amway distributors offering me the opportunity to become "financially independent" and declined each time after listening to their spiel. I first found myself uninterested because of a "nerdy" stigma I associated with the name; I could never tell someone "I sell Amway" without being embarrassed. I guess that came from the visual of an annoying door-to-door salesman. After listening to a friend tell me more about the company and its wide range of products, I realized it could be a profitable business for some people, but it just wasn't what I was interested in doing. And that's the bottom line...Amway isn't for everyone, but does that mean we have to bash those who are trying to make a living of it? I read many of your articles and am amazed that you're actually implying that these people who behaved immorally or committed crimes did so because they were Amway distributors. I wonder how many Walmart managers and employees were involved in one form or another of theft or lying last year, and did so, of course, because they were employed by Walmart. The statistics are: given any large group of people, the percentage of them who have done something wrong in their lives is 100, regardless of their line of work. It's true that a company's staff reflects greatly on it's image, but you cannot hold these tremendous corporations responsible for the lack of morals in their workers/distibutors. As far as brainwashing is concerned, there is no such thing. God said " My people will perish for lack of wisdom ". If you follow your own selfish desires to 'get rich quick' and fall into the hands of another who is getting rich quick off of people like you, and, admittedly me at times, fess up to the fact that you allowed your hopes for instant gratification to interfere with your better judgment. There are swindlers out there, and there are people who are trying to earn an honest living, and I can honestly say I believe Amway, just like every other corporation on this planet, has both. God gave us brains for a reason--CHOOSE WISDOM!

I finally got on the Quixtar site (for curiosity sake). It took several tries over several days. They didn't even have it up when promised. It is just all Amway products as far as I can see. And the site itself is dull and unimaginative. Truly unimpressive. If there were links to other vendors, they weren't obvious. I haven't talked to my girlfriend who was trying to recruit me. She has been very silent. I don't know if she is disappointed. I would be under the circumstances. Shame on Amway!

Hello. I stumbled over your site last evening. In fact, I was trying to go on-line to Quixtar.com and was having numerous problems. It was bouncing me around and would not let me into my virtual office and member perks and such. SO - I was searching the web trying to find another site to send an e-mail to when I found your site.

I actually spent almost two hours reading through your e-mails and articles and reading your book review! Boy, did my stomach hurt. So many of what was sent in on the e-mail mirrors (no pun intended) my thoughts and feelings so much. My husband and I became distributors in 1992 - two weeks after we were married. We were introduced to the business by an associate of my husband. They were truly nice people. Our up-line are nice, Christian people; however, there is sOOOOOOOO much emphasis put on "the team" and not the other areas of your life. The Team comes before your family, your church and all social events. The Team has weekly, monthly, quarterly events that you need to attend - "if you don't know, you won't grow". So many times when I couldn't find a sitter for the children, I was made to feel badly by the up-line ladies. "We all have to get sitters too". It seemed that my "J O B" family was more understanding about sick children than that of The Team. Sometimes the hype would just get to me. Back in October, I prayed that the Lord would give me direction. I was having hesitations and not really sure about the business. The very next week a former down-line called me up. She wanted to sign back up. She had been away from The Team for almost two years and missed the people. We took her back with open arms - but I had some hesitation. She, in the past, had written several bad checks or would order products and never come to pick them up. Or even worse, I would drive 30 miles to meet her and she would never show. Luckily, I was able to credit her items and did not loose money, but it was a hassle trying to get the money from the bad checks, plus the service fees. HOWEVER, we took her back. It was great for four weeks, she was ordering, going to the meetings and everything. Then it came time to sign-up. I told my up-line about my hesitation, but they went ahead and told her to order the new kit (with the sample size products in it). Right around $150. Then within a two week time period, the check for the kit and her weekly orders were rubber. This was around $300. I still have not seen the money from her after repeated phone calls and such. My up-line said "its a tax write off for bad debt".

>From that time, I went from a "core" player to a whiney, excuse ridden Team player. I just didn't want to be around the hype. We were on SOT, Book of the Month and always hit "100" PV. During several months last year, we did 300 PV personal. YEAH. After spending almost $600 per month, we got a whopping $75 bonus check for each of those months. It didn't seem to pan out in my mind. Our up-line had a "special event" that the 300 pv people were invited to( sorry, the word invited used to mean "at their expense", not at your expense). So the cost of the dinner theatre trip was equivilent to one of those bonus checks.

Then it was the first of the year - Dream Night. Our daughter was the sitter for the people we shared the room with. Two weeks after the function, they quit. Our up-line said that they had let their newborn "steal their dream".

I started again giving excuses of why I couldn't go the the meetings. Then we bought a house and our time was consumed with that. According to others - our house was stealing our dream. Just recently was FED. My husband had to work all weekend at his JOB. Yet, our up-line Emerald called and gave a three part message on how he should fein a death in the family just to go to the function. It that ethical????? Sure, we all want time off from work and sometimes we call in sick just because. BUT, saying that a family member has died just to take a weekend off, get sitters for the kids, drive 300 miles on a holiday weekend for THE TEAM???????????????????? Ironically, just three weeks prior to this message, my grandmother did die. I was able to get time off from work, but my husband who works retail was not able to get off from work to go to a real funeral. My point is if he could not get time off for a real funeral, WHY would he be able to get off for a FAKE funeral??????? I was totally ticked after hearing the message. No, we did not go to the function, but we had several messages telling us about what we had missed. Also, if you don't go to a function, you are six months further away from Direct. We have gone to everything for almost seven years and guess what - our organization is still just my husband and I. We have had downline come and go - but we were saints. We kept hanging on just because our upline told us to.

I had hoped that Quixtar would be a turning point. However, as I mentioned in the beginning of this LETTER, I haven't been able to see anything yet. I keep getting knocked off.

Please give me the resource about the money made from the books and tapes. I found that quite interesting. Approximately two years ago, we bought around $300 tapes from the "suggested tape list" from our up-line, only to have that tape list changed a month later - no one said to wait until the new list came out, they were just so happy that we were "core".

I am terribly sorry to RUN on like this. As I said, there were so many simularities to me that it almost made me ill. Also, if you don't mind, which Diamond did you work for. We are in Bill Britt's organization. I was just curious.

Thanks for letting me spill.

Part II

You know we hear from The Team that what we do with our life is what matters. That is true, but you know just the other day I saw a picture of a small boy, standing near a lake with green grass. The phrase had the jist of - 100 years from now who will care what car you drive, what house you live in or how much money you make - but the difference you have made in a child's life. WOW - will my son really care if we are Diamonds (or less) or will he remember my husband and him riding bikes in the evening. Or even like today, my husband had the day off and they spent the morning together now - not five years from now. That I think is going to make the difference in this world. What we give of ourselves to our children, not the things.

I am glad I stumbled onto your site. I will keep in touch and will continue to read the updates. As you said "no the site does not have the bells and whistles" but who needs pretty pictures when it is the message that counts.

Thanks for listening.

Duh, I'VE got better things to do with my time, it's but fun, but now I'm making $$ in this business that all you can do is bitch about, are you making any money talking to me ? NO? then I guess we're done talking !! Bye.

this new quixtar site is a real joke. For starters, they are charging a whopping 14%shipping charge, whereas Amway charges 4% for the same products and priced exactly the same. Customer service is a nasty joke, if you can get in and send an email, they don't return a message. 99.99% of the time, customer service is too busy and can't get in. They have an 800 number for customer service, and say that they are available 7:00am to midnight est, try calling after 5:00pm and you get recording that normal business hours is 9-5! try calling 9-5 and always busy. Ordering is a nightmare, if you are able to get in to the shopping pages(usually, page comes that says too many users try later) everything is so slow that when I placed a dummy order it took me 15 minutes to order 3 Amway products! This Quixtar will die a quick death if they don't get there shit together.

I am just finding out about the deceptive practices in the AMO's. I do have a couple of questions concerning what was said in your testimony: 1) How did the Diamond actually lose money on his Amway business--was it a paper loss--like deductible expenses? I'm afraid I don't understand how he could--I mean the math doesn't add up. 2)What AMO were you involved in? I'm in the Britt organization. My upline Emerald claims that he has never made more than 10% of his income from tapes and other tools. I don't know whether or not to believe him. Thank you for your time and consideration. I look forward to hearing from you.

 I have been involved in amway and now quixtar for a very long time, the truth of the matter is it is a wonderful opportunity but you have to really work at it, a lot of people get in expecting something for nothing, have you ever been in? If not then you should at least have the honesty to check out the whole story before you start printing wild hearsay. One more thing if they are so bad why does the federal government use them as the measuring stick against which all mlms are judged I realize that some people have said things that are not true about quixtar and amway this is unavoidable when anybody who is willing to buy a kit can get in. I also noticed the only time you list a persons name who said something is when it was said to point out the false hoods in something you had just listed as being said about the companies if you had investigated these companies you would have found they have a very strict code of business. I had not heard of most of these so called widely circulated rumors, how much checking do you do on these mlm horror stories before sending them out over the web? Who pays to keep this site operating? The sad part is that some people who could be helped by this are being driven away by the rumor mill that you take such pleasure in repeating. most people are not willing to accept delayed gratification. This does not make the offer bogus only not right for them. if you would care to show some of your proof that the company has done anything that violates the business code they set up. I will gladly check it out.

To Whomever: I am trying to get my daughter out of the Amway cult. Is there a way to do this.

Hello,

Could you forward me the message from "The Microsoft Rapid Response Team?" I have some IBOs that will not get off my case. They used the Bill Gates on the Jay Leno bit on me. If you can't forward the message to me could you send me their e-mail address?

I check your site several times a week. Please don't stop doing what your doing. These IBOs tell lie after lie. The girl I work with told me that she has replaced her income with Amway. After a long debate the truth came out - she only makes $800.00 a month. That's before she pays her downline, after that she's left with $400.00( not to mention tapes, books etc...). I bet that's a lie also! Now of course with Quixtar she tells me that she and her husband will come pay off my house for me next year. They also said getting into Quixtar would be like starting getting in on Microsoft when it first started. I thought that was a really good one! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

Thanks for letting me vent,

Hello my name is *. I have been with Equinox for two months. My best friend has invested $5000. I have no intentions on investing money, but I want to do this to help her out. Are the products really as good as they sound? I may be selling an entire home unit to a professor of mine, but is really a worth while product with a warranty.

I have heard so much about the big Equinox Scandal, but Bill Gouldd reassures us it was only a couple bad seeds who ruined it for us. He has fired all of his trainers, so he can do the training personally.

I have noticed at the one seminar I attended they didn't focus on giving us knowledge about their products.

I don't know? What do you say?

I thought I would post my twi cents worth on all the hype surrounding the Quixtar business.

As a former distributor (2yrs) that quit shortly before the Quixtar plans were announced, I still maintain my AMVOX account. I am rather stunned by the hype surrounding the new DeVos and VanAndel venture. Many of the daily messages from Diamonds and Ken McDonald make very wide claims of grandeur and innovation. Here are some of the claims I have heard recently:

- Quixtar is going to revolutionize the Internet
- Quixtar is currently 1.5 times larger than MSN.com
- Quixtar received 20 million hits on 9/1/99 and continues to receive "an unheard of" (?) 10 million hits a day.
- The site will soon be hosted by 83 Compaq servers.
- The downtime exerienced on 9/1/99 was caused, according to Ken McDonald by a "silly little switch" which has since been rectified.

My comments: I think part of the harm caused by Amway/Quixtar is that most of the distrbutors believe information which is conveniently distorted or interpreted FOR THEM. Recently, I have been "lectured" by several distributors on topics regarding the Internet and Quixtar. Many of these distributors have in some cases never been online, or even owned a computer and have developed overnight into as they claim "ecommerce and Internet marketing Executives". I should add that I own a tradition web design an multimedia business and have conducting Internet development projects and marketing for in excess of five years. I also write various SQL, SAP and Perle scripts for use in ecommerce.

Here is my short analysis of Quixtar:

1- Positioning: Quixtar is one of close to a million online virtual malls and ecommerce sites that carry a range of products and services. Its presence has received very limited coverage (positive and negative) from Internet and traditional media.
2- Sales Volume: The number of hits per day is not unusual compared to other large sites. It is important to note than may of the hits logged are from existing distributors with a probable average of 4-5 hits per distributor (more if they are accessing the site routinely to show it to prospects). It should be added that raw hits do not translate into profit unless SALES ARE GENERATED(Quixtar to my knowledge does not conduct banner advertising or other campaigns that profit from the traffic). Furthermore, sales generated from the present distributor force can only be counted if Quixtar and Amway are on the books as one financial entity. For the founding families, the venture is not profitable if the volume generated by Amway is simply transferred to Quixtar especially given the overhead for creating the new upstart.

In addition, Quixtar is heavily dependent on retail sales generated through the client category. I find this unlikely given the present pricing and limited market for the Amway products. It is also important to know, as many of us current and former distributors know, new distributors in the business does not equal an increase in PV/BV (most distributors don't even maintain 100 PV per month). New distributors that are remote from their upline would most probably generate even less volume as they are less exposed to the pressure of the "system".

What does the above limited analysis predict for Quixtar ? Most likely one of three outcomes:

1- Quixtar will have moderate success and will continue to exist in the place of the old Amway joining the ranks of other average visibility MLM's online such as the recent NuSkin subsidiary: BigPlanet.com
2- Quixtar will as a result of high losses shift its presence to that of a more traditional online price club with small rebates to distributors and members for purchases thus relying less on the MLM system. Distributors would shift back greater emphasis to the Amway side of the plan.
3- Quixtar presence would be contracted out as a to other vendors to directly see their goods without rebates for distributors. This model is the event of a total failure. This would allow DeVos, VanAndel & Co. to recover some costs without loss of face from a total liquidation.

Signed,

I read some of your comments recently in an e-mail that my sister-in-law sent to me. She works in Seattle at Amazon.com. Since Quixtar is one of there competitors (her term) they track information written about them.

I would only like to mention a few things, as I don't want to waste your time. More importantly, I don't want to waste mine.

As with internet e-mailing, web page development, and all MLM's, the great thing about them all is that anyone is allowed to get involved. Unfortunately, the worst thing about them all is that anyone is allowed to get involved. You see, when I register someone, I can't ask them for a resume, or a list of qualifications. If they want in, they can get in. It is only after they register that sometimes I wish they would have blessed someone elses group.

Along the same lines, it is always the person with the least amount of tact and people skills that talks the loudest and the most often about their business project with "Microsoft and IBM". Too bad for those folks. They will soon realize that they reap what they sow. It is those with the people skills, tact, ethics, etc. that too often don't speak up. However, because they act in a professional manner, they usually do suceed.

I built my Amway business to the direct distributor level. Only 10% of the people who sign up ever reach that level. It's not because it doesn't work. That's just business. Business' start and fail every day. People should be so lucky to only have to spend a hundred dollars to fail. I'd hate to build a brick and mortar store, buy inventory, hire employees, and fail.

Anyhow, I hope someday you meet an IBO affilated with Quixtar that you respect. Someone who has integrity. And I hope that they are very successful in the business. Maybe that will warrant you writing something positive about a truly wonderful business opportunity. Again, emphasis on the word business. Too many think this is a Quixtar

"free-lunch-pay-me-for-just-signing-up-business" opportunity.

Sincerely

We appreciate you website to help ones like us that want to do a home based business and are not aware of the pitfalls of the MLM business. We were in agreement with most of the things you have observed in the MLM business. We have been in & out of the MLM business for many years. Mostly out because of the reasons discussed on your site. Just last week we joined another MLM because it seems different. We know, that is why we thought we joined all the others too. But most MLM company have a lot of people making a little money and a few on top making a lot of money.

What do you think about the ones, like this one we joined, where there are no salaries paid to any of the top people? Their money comes from them working the same program as all the other representatives. Also, they have a new patent pending forced matrix system that puts new representatives from your upline below you automatically. No one has control of where people are placed, it is done by computers. The computer fills in all open places on every level. However, if you personally sign up another representative, you receive another business center placed somewhere below you that has a new downline to 10-20 levels. Have you ever heard of a system like this? If so, what are the pros and cons?

Also, the company does not just sell one product from one distributor. There are several products, mainly telephone long distance, pagers and Internet service providers at this time. Electricity and cell phones are coming. If the products do not fill the quality control or price requirements then the company negotiates with another distributor. Is this a common type of program? Does this give us better products to offer?

We would like to do a home based business and the MLM business seems like it should work if the greedy opportunists are not involved. Hopefully, we have found one that will work for us.

Thanks for any input you can give us on this.

MLM Hopefuls

I am working on a post-graduate degree in business and I am working on a study of MLMs (which ones work, which ones don't, which ones are legal/illegal and why, expense/income ratios, etc.) I'm not an expert by any means, but I do feel that I can share some thoughts that are worth consideration (i.e. food for thought).

Yes, there are many scams that mask themselves under the MLM umbrella. However, there are others that are legitimate and legal and if represented properly, are reputable. I am not attacking your right to free speech or in your choice to exercise it, or even your point of view. I'm just dissapointed that you choose to only present information that is skewed towards one side, and not in presenting equal time to other aspects and considerations on this topic. Hmmmm....I guess free speech isn't always fair and accurate speech.

Although I found many items on your web page to be accurate in bits and pieces, I found that things were also being twisted, or taken out of context. Perhaps not intentionally, but the result was a somewhat slanted approach (as would any topic be presented in this fashion). Maybe that is your intention.

I am a little perturbed at your decision to present the perception of the Quixtar MLM from some unknown and possibly misguided fellow named "Larry" and his version of what he believed to be the structure of Quixtar. I'm not certain of the reliability of his information and I'm sure he wasn't elected to represent the entire population of distributors. Perhaps as a former journalist I'm bothered because I can't say I would use so few sources to represent the masses. I'm sure if you asked other distributors that you might find information that coincides with the information you have from the company representatives.

Imagine if Pepsi-Cola (just as an example) had you speak to a guy in their sales department about their corporate strategy or a new product line strategy. He'd tell you his version of what he thinks it is, and most likely he'd be a bit off base. Now imagine talking to the people he has trained with somewhat inaccurate information. Wouldn't the misunderstanding be multiplied? Is it fair to say that some misunderstanding on Larry's part is possible? Could it be that some distributors spouted off their understanding of something and that the misinformation continued to spin out of control?

Are you correct that some people are misrepresenting the Quixtar web site and what it is all about? Absolutely! However, I'm more likely to believe it is the Distributors themselves causing the confusion, not the actual opportunity or what the corporation is producing. Are there people involved who misrepresent information? Sure. Are there people with integrity and honesty involved? I think that's pretty likely too. I'm just dissapointed you don't explore that aspect of this subject. I guess I'm just an incurable diplomat.

There are truly some scams out there masked under "MLM". I don't believe it is accurate to apply the same scam label to every MLM. In my opinion, if this Quixtar is represented honestly and with accurate information I don't believe that "scam" applies in this situation. O.K. I conceed that there is no guarantee that everyone invovled has the integrity and honesty to present Quixtar accurately particularly at the onset of this, what... 8 day old MLM?

Again, I'm not intending to be argumentative here. I just hope you'll take this point of view as something to consider as you continue to look at the entire picture, and not just a corner of the puzzle.

I was sponsered into Amway in 1992. The business became an expensive hobby for me. I purchased many many tapes, bookes and materials, attended every meeting and function for years (I was single so my time was available). My business never grew because I failed to consistently contact people and show the plan. I did show it some, and did sponser a few people but not at the level that my upline said was necassary to actually build the business. My upline did tell me that unless you show the plan consistenly 5-7 times per week that this would only be an expensive hobby and that I should not waste my time, effort and money on the motivational system. Although the system would help motivate me to go out and show the plan more. (I do believe in God's Word and He says that action comes by faith and faith comes by hearing. ( and that means hearing, and hearing, and hearing.) ) So I kept plugging in and spending my money (I did enjoy the functions) but still never really showed the plan enough to build a business. I started to accumulate some credit card debt .

2 years ago I got married. My wife isn't extremely positive about the business. She went to 2 major functions. She is an early to bed type and got ugly tired. She also feels that the products are too expensive.

With marraige came quite a bit more credit card debt in which we hit a $$ wall and had to cut back somewhere. The only place to really cut back was the system. I realized that I knew what I needed to know to build the business, and until I was showing the plan consistently I should not plug in. I did realize though that when the time would come that I would want to build a business that the motivational / information system would be necessary for my group to stay together. I also did realize that a tape didn't cost $6.00 to manufacture, and that there was tremendous profit in the system. That does not bother me for I know that the profit is available to me and to anyone who wants to build a large network and promote the system. After I quit plugging into the system I was also introduced to all of the AUS and less than positive experiences on the internet, etc.. I devoted much time to learning as much as I could about the other side of the MLM coin. During all of this time I have been working a dead end job in the food service business. I have always been self employment minded and felt that food service was (and is) temporary. Recently I have discovered that I have some musical talant and would like to pursue some sort of proffession as a vocalist and/or musician. I have purchased a keyboard and am looking into lessons. It will take a lot of time, effort, energy, and money. And along comes Quixtar. I have been totally out of the Amway loop for about 2 years now and do feel some guilt and regret that I didn't build a large MLM business years ago. Although the negative expeiences that I have encountered about MLM's has opened my mind, I still feel that Amway / Quixtar is an excellent financial opportunity for me and anyone who is willing to work at it.

There is also the spiritual aspect of the association to consider. As you know there are numeruos spiritual beliefs in this world, and most of them promote positives. Making THIS world a better place, and filling people with hope looking forward to a spiritual life after this physical one. From what I have experienced, the association of mostly Christian people in the organization is a great positive force in a society that seems to be moving the opposit direction. For instance, I was raised Catholic until high school. It seems that many children raised Catholic become athiests as adults as a result of the Catholic "System." While attending public high school I became an athiest, and vowed that there was NO GOD for 7 plus years. Until my first optional Christian worship service that was held at my first major business funcion. I went forward to accept Jesus Christ as my personal savior. I have also seen people in my small group do the same, as well as thousands of others in the different stadiums around the country. This seems to be an excellent opportunity to introduce and motivate people to live a more wholesome lifestyle.

The reason I am writing to you: First - is to vent a little bit while putting my experiences into perspective for myself while deciding whether to put my time effort, energy and money into Quixtar, and/or music, etc. Second - as others read both + and - messages on the internet they can learn from the experiences of others including mine. And finally - I am looking forward to a response from you regarding any and all of the issues which I brought up (Amway, Quixtar, music, marraige, spirituality, etc.) including any advice that you can give me from your experiences. (I guess that your book would be an excellent recource, and you would probably encourage me to purchase a copy. I would love to read your book but probably will not get around to purchasing a copy. If you have an extra one to send my way that would be great. I know that my upline has given me hundreds of dollars worth of their own personal books and tapes and I have done the same for my downline.)

I rarely use E-mail and I don't know if your response will include a copy of this message, but I would somehow like to save this. I would like my upline read this message and any responses.

I encourage anyone to E-mail me with their expeiences at **

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This page updated Sep-20-99