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	The following posts have been reprinted in their entirety from posts e-mailed by readers of this website, except that headers, names and locations have been removed. These posts express the opinions and experiences of their authors, and this site publisher makes no representations about them in any way whatsoever. Re: The Winners Circle Hello my name is * , recently a company called The Winners Circle open in my country. I am a former Amway distributor and I made no money with them, but I happen to like multilevel marketing. Do you have any information about this new company? I wouldn't like to loose more money. They have a web site at www.w-circle.com Thanks [Note: The Winners Circle has just become the subject of legal action in Florida. See article. ] Re: Amway Is there anyway you can suggest to get a refund all several hundered tapes we purchased as "tools" which cost thousands... we stopped the business and didn't renew about 2 years ago and wish we had stopped way sooner...any suggestions???Mike we have our first naby on the way now and need the lost income if at all possible...????????????THNAAKS FOR A RESPONSE
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Re: Amway and MLM

Sirs, The majority of your site is simply about Amway bashing. I am in no way a "Amway" lover, and in fact do not like them either. However, you seem to direct your anger to ALL MLM companies, when in fact, it is only a certain amount. There ARE legit, and "common sense" MLM companies out there that admit that it is not easy, and it takes time (2 years+) to build a good amount of money. This is my 2 cents into the whole view. Your site is increasingly one sided, which of course is against all MLM companies.

It is YOUR website, so you can do whatever you wish and I won't say anything more, but I implore you to check out 'good' and 'honest' MLM companies such as EmpowerNet (www.empowernet.com) or Mannatech (www.mannatech-inc.com). Don't take this message the wrong way though, I do believe that over 80% of MLM companies today are scams. Have a good day,

Thank you for your excellent web site. As I was reading the e-mail responses you have received, I was amazed to find so many people who are as disillusioned with Amway as I am. Actually, it is our distributor organization (WWDB) that I have become unhappy with. My husband & I have been distributors for two years, having been sponsored by my mother & father-in-law. During the last two years we were as core as you could be; SOT, attended every function, counseled with our active up-line direct, showed the plan 2-3 times a week, etc. As a result, after two years of hard work we reached 2500 PV and pushed my in-laws into direct qualification. However, my in-laws are two-legged (I kid you not), and they had to buy their way into completing their final two months of direct qualification (24cases of Double-X). They had no business going direct, but our upline Rubies needed them to go direct so they in turn could go Emerald. The whole thing disgusted me because I felt they were pushing my in-laws to buy a lot of product just so they could collect their Emerald bonus money. So what was the end result? My in-laws are direct, our rubies are now emeralds, and we have quit the business. We are off SOT & Amvox, are no longer attending functions, and we have turned our downline over to my mother & father-in-law. After what happened to them, combined with what we have learned about the tools scam, (I first came across Jeff Probrandt's web site about eight months ago, and that got me thinking that there was something terribly wrong with this business) it was all just too much. I have a conscience, and the tools scam doesn't sit right with me, or with my husband for that matter.

It seems to me that the AMOs have become a modern-day form of organized crime; as I understand the concept of racketeering, it definitely seems to apply to these groups. Why doesn't the government stop them? Are Bill Britt & Dexter Yeager that powerful? If you would like to e-mail back to me, that would be great. Otherwise, thank you for the opportunity to share my feelings and my experience. Regards,

I have extensively read over Amway the untold story site and was enthralled with it. I just decided to check out your site and I am so glad I did! Great job, your efforts are most appreciated and you will be blessed for your dedication to help people "trapped" in amway and other such cults. The reason for the immediate response to your staff is the shocking and almost scary similarity of the lawsuit shown on your home page regarding Taylor vs. World Wide, etc. and my wife & I. I about fell off my chair when I began to read the details on the first amended complaint. I e-mail Mr. Sidney Schwartz regarding any help or assistance from anyone who has dealt with the returning of tools to "upline" specifically Brad Duncan. Sidney was very kind to respond and give my name to someone who he believes can assist me and has dealt with the same situation. The shocking similarity of the rest of the details gave my wife and I such hope that there were other person or persons fighting back and exposing these fraudulent people for what they are worth! Our situation is very very similar with the above mentioned and we have many recorded conversations with our "upline" including Brad Duncan which I believe would lend credibility to the Taylor's and all who are going after WW and the Duncan scam clan. My wife and I would very very much appreciate it if you would pass our personal information to the Taylor's and anyone on their side and let them know if there is ANYTHING we can do to help or assist, to please please let us know! My wife and I were very much involved in the business for 3 1/2 years on the east coast and traveled extensively to Portland OR. for major functions and related business activities. We are about to present our case to our former direct about the tool return because I contacted Brad Dunces office and explained the situation to Deanna one of brads secretaries and her response back to me from brad was I needed to contact our direct. I have not done this yet because I knew it would be a fight and I knew I needed more "ammunition" before we launched an attack against these evil people. As I previously explained via e-mail to Sidney, we had our BSMAA form retracted and have a letter of retraction from the ADBA board and have our original PA-707 form intact, which was a legal and binding form distributed from WWDB prior to the release of the BSMAA from. Please forgive me for the long message but please pass our information to the appropriate people involved with the above mentioned lawsuit. I believe like I previously stated, I have some very credible evidence both on audio tape, written, and our own personal confessions of our horror story with the brad duncan "line!"

Any advice or direction you can give my wife and I would be very much appreciated! Keep up the good work and continue to expose the wolves in sheep's clothing! You all are doing a remarkable, admirable work! Like I mentioned to others, I wish we read your site and others like it years ago! We now know why we were harshly reprimanded for searching on the internet, now we are madder than hell and are determined to do anything we can to help expose these frauds! We both await your response and again thank you for your time and great effort to this site!

Take Care and Continue to Kick Butt!

I would be very interested in any info you may have on a new MLM called "The Tax People". Anything! I have a family member involved and would like to get some real info.

Thanks for all your work. It is truly appreciated by many.

Yes. The last time I looked there was a letter and press release at Nikkens home page from the ceo. I got out of Amway the first time I was lied too and was asked to lie. I was involved thirty years ago when Charlie Marsh and Chuck Yeager were the Amway heros. In Nikken we are up front as much as possible and squash rumors and other things that come with network marketing. There are a lot of fine companies around; Avon, House of Lloyd, Discover Toys, Tupperware, Mary Kay, etc. We have a young black lady friend who is in M.K. and is in her second car and thoroughly enjoys her work and gets to stay home with her child. It is saddening to see a good thing damaged by the Big"A". As in any other business how far you go has more to do with you than anything else. Some people are truely money magnets and would make it good no matter what they did or do. Education , looks, work have nothing to do with it. Ross Perot is a good example. We think that we can do it and at least everyone gets a chance to try and nobody really gets hurt unless they get greedy, selfish and quit their day job too soon. With a good system you just have to stay with it long enough to learn it. We have two kind of dists in our down line. The kind that work and get paid and the kind who never do anything and must have thought it was a free ride. They will be the future complainers ,I suppose about how "it" didn't work for them. Also you can retail or network or both. You can come in for nothing in some states or $49 in others and retail your heart out, or $500 if you want to network. Frontloading is not tolerated. But the people who work get the lions share of the money. The rest don't get anything. Also the levels don't pay all the way up as some think they do. In that respect it is not like the contemporary concept of the Pyramid setup. It is highly moral. However I have never thought it will be the huge driving force in the "New Economy" as some say. The internet will evidently be the biggy there . Thanks for answering. Sorry I am incapable of writing short notes!

First of all i'm not going disagree with you totality,because there are some pretty shady MLM's out there,but on the other hand there are some organizions that are honest and sincerely wish to help.The system has alot to do with how successful you will be.I have studied 6 differed systems within the one business and it was like night and day.Everyone has a right to an oppinion but you should do your homework on a business a little more thourghly.The amway business has 11 different systems and you are right to some extent.They arn't all created equal.

Hello, my name is *, I've been part of Equinox for about a month and a half, and have not been able to even recover half of my investment for going to the seminar (300+150 in expenses) I thank God I have the Internet to get both sides of Equinox. I do feel kind of ripped off, and it feels like in order to recover that money me or they would have to scam other people too. Well, my Mom had some success in Mary Kay, but she worked her ass too much and it was very risky, she said. Anyway, a lot of stories that I've read so far, is from people that invested too much money without learning to be a more effective sales person. However, as I read more about it, the more I realize that this is all or nothing, it's like give it up so that people you know give it up and all of them together will take me where the rich people are. I thought if it was for the better health of people it would work, because they do have good points, for the quality of products that they are, they still come out to be cheaper than it would if it was processed by the regular system. is that true or not? And if that one day means that, because of this network market (working together), we can have a healthier earth and life, then I guess it's worth the sacrifice. However, it's also a price that only rich people could afford to be long-term customers, and only if they see the quality of life attained by these products. Maybe you have some quotations (prices) of equinox's competition companies, that could really help.

Hi, My wife and I were in Amway about 10 years ago for a couple of years. We didn't invest a whole lot of time or money in it and nothing really became of it. Joined again in March because I thought Quixtar looked like something I could do (and with all the hype about e-commerce) I thought I'd give it a try.(My wife wasn't interested at the time)Anyways I took a cautious approach,talked to a few people but basically was waiting for the store to open. I was quite convinced that this was going to be something different from Amway and that with good stores and good prices why would you not want to shop there. Well good in theory, and hopefully this will change but for now, "I don't think so". If you think the store selection in the US isn't great then look at Canada's. IBM and Apple are not included. And when I look at the list of the stores, they are so specialized,I personally would hardly ever purchace anything from them. And the prices. Convert them to Canadian dollars and see how much you're going to buy. On another note, I read an article in "Network Marketing Lifestyles" April 1999 by Richard Poe (a sneak peak at his forthcoming book,"Wave Four" Have you seen the article? Would be curious as to how you would respond to it. Appreciate the hard work that it takes to get all this information and to keep it updated. Thank you. All the best.

Gary(30) and Anne(31) & Erin(1) (not their real names) the nicest neibors you could ask for. We would have dinner at each others houses in a nice upper middle class neiborhood in Oregon. Well Gary who worked for a family business that wasn't doing very well and Anne who worked in a dental office told us one night over dinner that they where thinking about starting a new business and that they might be looking for other partners but they don't want to let us know about it just yet. well a couple weeks latter we where having our usual weekend dinner at our house and Gary says that they had decided to go ahead with the new business and that we should look at some of the products that they would be selling in this new business. Well, my wife asked if this was Amway and they said that it was some dream builder business and that a lot of people have gotten very wealthy at it and we should watch a tape and my wife should go to a makeup show the next day and to trust everything that they say because they really checked this business out. The next day we told them that it was Amway and that we had checked it out on the web and that a lot of people have been hurt by this business.

For the next week we didn't hear a word from them, you have to understand we had become very close friends over the last 4 yrs I would say that we would have done anything for them. After that first week Anne came down to our home and started crying, She said that she couldn't understand how we of all people wouldn't support their new business and that they figured us of all people where smart enough to see that this was the only hope for our dreams to come true.

I realized that day how destructive Amway is.

It is now 2 yrs since Gary and Anne started their new business They have had 2 More kids and Anne Quit her job to stay home with the kids and they all of a sudden are trying to be everyone's best friend again. They are passing out a new business card something about e-commerce and that it isn't the old Amway business it is a new Venture we really have to look into. I know it is Quixtar and I am very sad for them. I have recovered from the loss of our Best Friends I have truly shed tears over this. I miss them and I feel sorry for them.

Thank you for giving me the ability to tell my story.

Im sorry that Amway didn't work out for you. I was interested about what you said about your upline diamond. Him making money of the tapes and seminars; how exactly was he doing that, if They say: all the money goes to the World Wide company who makes the tapes.

Hi,

I read the information on your "MLM survivors" Internet page. Two very good friends of mine approached me about "The Future of Business" (www.thefutureofbusiness.com). From the little bit that they have told me, it sure does sound a whole lot like (sc)Amway-for-Internet-users to me. In fact, they have used a lot of the same Amway buzzwords and catch phrases that Amway is famous for. "Get it now while it's still early!" "An excellent opportunity to make a ton of money without doing much work." Bla, bla, bla... Can you give me any info on "The Future of Business"? I don't want anything to do with a MLM scheme and this sure does reek of one!

Thanks,

Good for all of us for having the strength and maturity for taking responsibility for a failure, and better yet, turning it into something positive. This is healing and it feels damn good.

Equinox - what can I say that hasn't already been said. I invested $250.00, brought in $1200.00, they paid me $80.00, all in less than two months. Fortunately, it did not take me long to do the math and walk away, but not before a sponsor offered me a desk, phone, and shared ads, in exchange for special "favors"! The honest person I am, I returned unused product only to be harrassed by a collection agency for the cost of the product I returned. Unbelievable! Again I was fortunate. My sponsors were so eager to take my money, they failed to notice that I did not sign the agreement, therefore I had no legal financial obligations to Equinox. The collections stopped along with our relationship.

I am a dreamer. MLM's like people like me. I am willing to pay for information. You haven't lived until you've learned. You have to take risks if you are going to succeed. I am still involved in a MLM. I always try to remember my relationships with the friend, family member, or co-worker, that does all the "taking" and I do all the "giving". MLM's are the same: "Be Your Own Boss" and "Enjoy Financial Freedom", learn to say "no."

I wish all prosperity in their endeavors.

Learned from Being Burned...

Hi

Loads of interresting stuff.

Do you have any info on IBS a UK AMO run by Pat Gregory and Gerry Scrivens (both Diamonds)

LOS was Yeager, Harteis, then Gregory.

Quit Three years ago when I could no longer get in touch with my direct who moved and then quit.

Keep up the good work. I guess Amway just lost control

Hi Former Amway Distributor,

Your website has truly alerted us to a ton of Amway/QUIXTAR cautions. So many that I cannot figure out what to believe or not.

My wife and I have been recently introduced to QUIXTAR by a former colleague and good friend. We liked what we saw and heard about QUIXTAR until he mentioned "Amway". My wife has a cousin who was in Amway but dropped out for unknown reasons. We always considered Amway to be one of those Pyramid marketing models where you "must" obtain new members/sellers to build up your empire.

We do not like this form of advertising as it usually is jaded and not always truthful.

We do like the QUIXTAR mall concept with partners stores, but see that the "main" core mall products "ARE" Amway products !! The partner stores idea is great as it provides much needed variety, however, there are many more needed to be a super mall which QUIXTAR reps tout.

I have attended (1) S&R and I felt that it was staged only for my wife and I as I was picked on by the speaker and it felt like everyone there was to overwhelm us. It did not feel genuine, but I am also a skeptic of these kind of seminars. My wife loved the high energy speaker and thought the whole thing was fun and exciting. It was, but what are we not also hearing?

My friend is constantly going to Britt WorldWide seminars trying to learn how to build up his skills and "learn" how to sell QUIXTAR. He has mentioned the many books, tapes, and videos there for sale too. All of this, plus what your "mystory" says about how the REAL business is selling these motivational books and tapes...etc.. is so true, it's scary.

Please help me peel the QUIXTAR/Amway onion and answer these questions:

- What are the main reasons behind Amway's tained reputation? There products are good to excellent from what I hear from others. Is it mainly the selling/marketing model or the false advertising? Why is it that they have been in business for 40+ years and have international presence? They must be doing something right, no? What are some truths that QUIXTAR reps could NOT talk around pertaining to QUIXTAR/Amway? You list many in your articles but even my friend can talk around these issues.

The IBO cost was $99.95, but this includes a $70 valued select Amway gift pack, so the QUIXTAR IBO registration cost was around $30, $35 annually thereafter. It does'nt seem like that big investment and after 1 year I do not have to join again. Is there something I am missing here?

So far my communication of this website to my friend has resulted in some touchy conversations and I am not looking to deflate his QUIXTAR balloon, but I need to know FOR SURE, what I am getting into as an IBO. I do not want to promote something to friends/family/strangers that I truly do not feel comfortable with and I do not want to be a QUIXTAR / AMWAY / BRITT defendent when someone else challenges me about Amway's reputation.

Please help us figure out what steps to take next.

Thank you very much for your time.

PS: please do not post my email address on your websites or anywhere else.

Your site is great.

Thanks for putting such good info up. I remember a time when I hated and bashed folks like you. now I just want to help others not fall into the traps. What is the story on a co. called Trek Alliance, I know the founders and have worked with all of them extensively in Equinox, I dont suspect that they got nice or caring over night, I know that these guys are cutthroat to say the least. Thanks for any info on that.

i recently heard about a good opportunity for a job. I'm not sure about if this is really a m.l.m. kind of thing because its very different from any other m.l.m. scam. I dont't know my way around the web really good, but i would like to know were i can get info. and maybe warn others about this opportunity(if its really a scam). Its about Pre-Paid Legal Services and the way they work. Please help!!!!!! Thank you. I will be waiting for an answer.

get a life loser!!

I did some more research and found out Jewelway has gone bankrupt. There are still sites on the web promoting it, but they lead to the notice of bankruptcy. Ironic, isn't it? Thanks for the info,

I signed up in August during the big "Quixstar" push and before the big 9-1-99 debut. My sponsor is a very nice, Christian gentleman, whom I believe is very honest and sincere. I think he is being snowed and would not intentionally harm anyone with this. However, I can't say the same for his upline...beyond his diamond and above. I have never had an "inner peace" or been able to rest well ever since I signed on. The more I see and read, the happier I am that I have not actually sponsored anyone. I am not going to renew and have only lost my initial sign up fees for my start up kit. If you are considering Quixstar or Amway, please research it thoroughly and do your homework. It works for some, but I want to keep my friends and I want to sleep at night.

Could you please forward the User Name and Password required to access www.ask-an-emerald.com. Thanks for your reply!

I have been an Amway distributor (and now Quixtar IBO) for at least six years. My wife and I hit Silver a couple of years ago but that was mainly from sales of a single, very stressful month. We have paid many thousands of dollars to the Yager motivational system for its brainwashing services. Some ex - Amway Emrald tried to sponsor me in to NIKKEN a couple of years ago. He told me that the big pins get most of their money from the flow of books and tapes and so forth. He must be pissed off again because NIKKEN seems to be having a little legal trouble with its product line.

** and I are classic examples of people who have worked our guts out and spent lots of money with little to no financial gain. We are perfect "prospects" for a fan club like yours. At this time we are almost completely inactive in Quixtar because my plumbing business has become extremely profitable and I am currently devoting all of my time to it.

I intend to return to heavy sponsoring activity as soon as I am satisfied with the size of my bank account. Here is my issue: Why would a dude like me return to this system after being unplugged for so long as well as failing to turn a profit in past years of hard work?

Theory 1: I am an adult who takes responsibility for his own decisions and I am willing to admitt to myself the I have not yet done enough work CONSISTANTLY ENOUGH to turn a healthy profit.

Theory 2: I have been brainwashed really really well. And the debate continues..............

So you deal in only facts; FANTASTIC So does every two-bit reporter in the country.

Such a careful choice of FACTS merely expresses yet another small opinion.

I will be sure to call again when I am a Diamond. I can't wait to reveal all of the lies printed in the SA4400

Hi, I very much want to read the articles on your site. I can not get access to them, and can't for the life of me figure out why. I joined the Listbot, but that didnt help. What am I missing? I was recently "invited" to a Primerica meeting, and sensing that it wasnt a legit employment offer, started researching the co. What I found out confirmed my suspicions. The Federal Reserve Board held public hearings in April 98 on the merger between Citibank and Travelers, of which PRimerica is a subsidiary. The remarks by panelist Josh Zinner, with the Brooklyn Legal Services were very enlightening. He works with low-income seniors, and is well aware of Primerica's tactics, and calls them "predatory."

Thank you in advance for your help in getting access to your articles. I llook forward to reading them. Your site is making an important and valuable contribution, in getting the informaiton out to people. Keep up the good work.

My apologies. I can access the articles except the Primerica one about the Tangled Web. It requires a user name and password and wont accept any I use. Any ideas about how to access that page? Thanks

[The Primerica site is down, after some legal threats made to the site author. ]

My husband and I just bought into Quixtar through some of our best friends who are really into it. I have had reservations and we basically bought into it to get them off our case. But now they are pressuring us even more to sell to others which we don't really want to do. It was pitched to us that Amway has made more millionaires than any other business and makes more money than any other corporation in the world except for Microsoft. Is any of that true? [No. See www.mlmsurvivor.com/quixlies.htm]

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