They use Machiavellian processes so before joining, listen to a couple of tapes, especially from Systems that speak of networks for the 21 st century. The System is supposed to include a Learning & Development Program for those serious about the business, but how can any leader concentrate on developing a supportive team ("leg") when they're also told to "go wide" (up to 20 frontline at a time) to "maximise your profitability" ??...The tapes, books, meetings/functions & incentives operate like pyramids. Expect "Mentors" who speak of a "vital signs" chart (yeah, better follow this or you're dead in the eyes of your Direct) & who gets the reward ? certainly not the new recruit who slaves away (often on their own & inexperienced) to have 5 or more people to a major function ...The reward goes to the "Mentor" who manages to duplicate this poor lap-dog like obedience 10 or more times. The prize, a harbour cruise, special meal or for bigwigs, a holiday. Are you ready to trade your soul for this fabulous lifestyle ?
Re: S.O.A.P.S.
Thank you for your continued efforts of informing people about Amway. I believe that this corporation is going to crumble real soon. You cannot continue to be THIS deceptive and not eventually have your day of reckoning. s.o.a.p.s. started a protest in Raleigh, NC on 08/10/98. we picket in front of Amway meetings and many of the churches that are affiliated with amway distributors. I want my money back. I will not be denied. They just don't understand that when they sponsored me in this CULT, they sponsored a real bulldog. Thanks for listening.
I have spent the last 45 minutes staring at a blank E-mail screen, wondering "How do I get this message started? Where do I begin, and what exactly are my motives in writing in the first place? "
My wife and I have been Amway Distributors for the last eight years and have made the decision to step away from active participation in the business. Many people I had the opportunity to show the Plan to would ask "How long have you been involved?" The most accurate answer I could give was that there are really two measures of time in the Amway business. One is the length of time since signing the application, and the other is the amount of time you could honestly say you were putting in the effort required for the desired results. (referred to as "CORE" in our line of sponsorship)
It is my belief that the vast majority of people that have gotten involved in this business (as well as those who will become involved in the future) will never put forth the consistent, persistent effort required. I must count myself as one of them.
In the eight years of calendar time I spent in the business, I can honestly document a grand total of five to six months of "CORE" work habits. What results did I see from that effort? EXACTLY the results that were taught as being feasible by my line of sponsorship! (World Wide Dream Builders)
After spending six months in "the investigative mode" ( kitted distributor, on Standing Order Tape and 2-5 additional tapes per week, attending ALL functions, personal use 100%, counseling occasionally, reading voraciously, and Showing the Plan not at all) , I finally made the decision to GO!
Six months later we (my wife had decided to jump aboard) had 10 personally sponsored legs on standing order (25 total S/O) and receiving bonus checks. Our group volume had passed the 4000 PV point and we were on our way! I can remember the Rally we crossed stage at, being recognized for our achievement and the comment of one of the Directs escorting us on stage. "This is something that very few people ever achieve you winner, you!! (or something to that effect) I must admit that I honestly thought we had the "horses in the barn" and all we had to do was find the leaders in depth and GO DIAMOND!!
It was at this point that we really stopped our efforts at putting in new personally sponsored legs and our 4000 PV business began to fall back. That year at the 4000 level was our only year we were able to report a profit on our Schedule C. Our volume fell back to the 2500 PV level where it has remained virtually unchanged for the last seven years. I can attribute this stability to only one thing, and it is not my work habit!
It is the persistent, consistent work habit of my wife, week in and week out, taking Call-in, doing Pick-up, serving 8 to 10 customers every month, and maintaining the friendships with the distributors who hung in with us (duplicating my lack of effort unfortunately!).
I finally have reached the point where I feel the I have one foot on the dock and another in the boat that is starting to drift away. It's called "Decision Time"! And my decision has been to take the wise advice from John Sestinas tape and "look at this as a business, for business purposes."
What I see is a business that I am unwilling to continue working at at the required level for an indefinite period of time. The idea that one day you will have the opportunity to go to Fiji for six months and come back to a business that is twice the size is a fallacy from my observations. If you want your business to remain, you must continue to "pump the pump". My Direct told of his Amway sponsored trip back to corporate headquarters in Ada, MI where he saw walls covered with pictures of high level distributors who are no longer involved in the business. There is no such thing as "permanent income"!
I also see a business that over the last eight years has had an annual loss of just over $6000.00 per year. As a lifelong business owner I can honestly state that I have never been involved in a business that has lost money more than ONE year! If a business is not profitable, cut your losses and find one that is!!
I must admit, one of the hardest things in leaving the business has been sitting down with the distributors who have become some of my closest friends and explaining to them my reasons for this decision. Some may call me a quitter. But the words of Greg Duncan come to mind. Many of Gregs friends called him a quitter for leaving the medical profession (he was a plastic surgery intern) I repeat his words "I am not quitting an income SOURCE, I am quitting an income DRAIN!"
To those who are just looking at the business as an outsider, some advice. Take advantage of some of the books on the System book list. The value you will take from the business you will find within those pages. And don't accept everything you hear at face value. Use the brain you were gifted with! Do your homework!
To those of you involved in the business, responding to the information on sites such as this, some advice. Honestly ask yourself if you are willing to commit the rest of your life to the process and the results of building the business. It is not my goal to steal your dream. Just one persons opinion. Also.....to those of you who are writing your responses to this site and others both pro and anti? PLEASE!!! Check your spelling and read what you are writing before you hit the "send" key! I know that all you English Majors out there could have a field day with what I am about to send, but just understand that your views are much more likely to receive a fair hearing if they are expressed in clear and concise way.
I truly appreciate this forum that has been made available to us all. The Truth really wll set you free!!
Re: Equinox
First off, I'd like to thank you for maintaining such a great website - it's so well-done, you'd hardly know it was a part-time effort!!
Let me get to the point right away - I'd like to tell my story concerning one of the most abusive, deceptive, aggressively noxious companies ever - Equinox International. I can say these things with certainty because I was actively involved in the company for over a year, from Oct. 96 to Nov. 97. I went in a naive, idealistic young college grad, and emerged a cynical, abused $10,000-poorer person with an almost ruined credit rating and a failing marriage. (However, I don't want to sound too melancholy, so let me state right now that IT IS possible to put your life back together even after a harrowing ordeal like this. Today, my marriage is stronger than ever, I'm in law school, and my credit rating is nearly repaired. So it IS possible, just a lot of hard work to dig yourself out of the financial hole that your involvement in the MLM was supposed to alleviate in the first place!!)
So, back to my story - I got involved in Equinox when I first arrived in Texas. I was a recent college grad who had just found out that the liberal arts degree I had worked so hard for in college was darn near useless in the "real world". Also, I had moved from Cincinnati, Ohio to Killeen, TX. Not only was I homesick, but my spouse was in the military at Ft. Hood, TX, and the atmosphere of the place was typical of most of your parasitic-type military towns. (A plethora of pawn shops, used car lots and strip clubs, but very little industry to support a business class.) Spouses with way more education than myself were reduced to telemarketing or food service work. In fact, the entire job section filled up only 2 full pages in the local newspaper - yuck!!!!! Needless to say, I did NOT like my options there.
So, imagine my surprise when I answerd an ad that read "Recent grads - work for an environmental company in the Killeen area. College degree preferred. Call for interview." I thought "Great! I got a degree, I love the environment, and I'm stuck here, so what do I have to lose?" I called the number, and a very-perky, oh-so-understanding young lady answered the phone. She asked me a few cursory questions about my environmental awareness and my background (answers which would be used against me later), and scheduled my "interview". She sounded so happy to talk to me, I thought that I might have a chance of getting a good job (a totally scripted conversation, as I would learn later).
I arrived the next day, resume in hand. I signed in, sat down in the waiting room with a bunch of other people, and wondered why the other "workers" were soooooo happy to see everybody that walked through the door. "They must be making a really good income", I thought naively to myself. I was introduced to some of the other people in the office (my resume was never even given a cursory glance), and I was sat in a room with a few other people ("Hmm, what are those products on the wall for, anyway?"), and was rather puzzled when the other office workers sat in on the "interview". Then came the sales pitch, er, interview. (Remember, being a recent college grad, I had no idea that this was a high-pressure sales pitch. More on that later.)
So, after that, my (would-be sponsor) turned to me and said, "Well, what do you think?". Truthfully, I didn't know what to think, but the products sounded good, the concept sounded okay, and the people seemed nice. "It sounds pretty good", I said, playing right into her hands. Then she introduced me to her "boss" (actually, the leaseholder and top distributor in the office). She had been edifying (or should I say "deifying") him the whole time, so I thought I was really special. He said that he was impressed with me, but I needed to come back that night for a "follow-up appointment". Actually, that "follow-up" would consist of listening to one of the ultra-successful distributors that was coming that night to speak, and to hit people up for their cash. So, like a dutiful lamb led to slaughter, I came back that night. After the exact same sales pitch was delivered (only with more "enthusiasm" delivered by a guy with flashier jewelry), Mr. Big Honcho sat in one of the side rooms while the office people led their new prey back to him, one by one, so he could "show them the value" of starting off at the highest level possible in the company (which is the "manager" level, in which you have to buy, I mean, sell $5000 worth of product).
Soon, it was my turn. My sponsor led me back to that little room. I was in there alone, with her and Mr. Big Distributor guy (who was referred to by the others as a "top executive in the company" - believe me, the obfuscation and word play in this company is absolutely shameless!!).
Anyway, I sat there alone in the room with 2 Equi-bots, while Mr. Big proceeded to "show me the value" (aka - hit me up for as much cash as he could) to start off at the manager level. I felt extremely uneasy, but he made it sound very simple, how I could build my "team" to help me, how easy it was to "share" the products, etc. etc. Although distributors in an MLM are forbidden by law to "entice" new recruits to join by showing them large checks, flashy cars, big houses, etc, Mr. Big did all of that and more, seemingly unaware of that little law. So, in the end, I coughed up over $3000 to start as a manager. Why not $5000, you may ask? Well, he "liked" my skills, "just knew" I'd be successful, that he would "cut me a fabulous deal" and let me start out as a manager with less cash out of my pocket. All a load of complete crap, he just realized he couldn't make me fork over the full $5000, or he surely would have exacted the full amount without hesitation. I had no time to think it over; in fact, they discouraged that. "What do you have to think about, dear? My offer is only for tonight - you don't want to lose out, DO YOU?", and so on.
So I agreed, and thus began my nightmarish journey into the Equinox world. I made it to the level of Director, a level that was purported to ooze success and cash, but ended up losing over $10,000, money that I had faithfully saved for years. What's more, I got my mother and brother to join, too, and they ended up losing over $10,000, as well. Believe me, they could less afford to do that than I could, because my father had died of cancer in 1996, with his medical bills amounting to literally hundreds of thousands of dollars. It had wiped out all the insurance money that he left in his policy to them. That is a source of extreme regret and guilt, something I will carry with me for quite a while, until I can adequately pay them back.
There is soooooo much more I could reveal about this company, it could take days to put it all down - the doublespeak, the outright lies, the bait and switch tactics, the "fake it til ya make it" doctrine, the bogus return policy, etc. etc. One thing I will describe in detail is this - once a distributor made it to the level of Director, there were all sorts of ways he could screw with his downline to pump up the amount of his own bonus check. How do I know? It happened to me - I was screwed by my direct upline. It happened like this. When I was relatively new in the company (incidentally, my original sponsor had quit by now, so her upline became mine), he came to me one day and said "he really saw a lot of potential in me" (complete load of BS, he just wanted to see how much more money he could squeeze out of me).
So, he would make me a "once in a lifetime" deal to reach the level of supervisor (one up from manager). All I had to do was fork over another $3000 order (over $3500 with sales tax) and he would promote me. (Pay attention, this is the kicker) --> However, I could not place the order through my own sales number, which was the regular way to do it, so each person who placed an order could get the rebates/bonuses directly from the company. No, he said, this was special, so I had to place MY order through HIS sales number. He said that was the only way he could promote me (totally false!!!). Actually, the reason he did it was to get MY rebate and bonus money that was supposed to go to ME. He got it instead, because it counted as his own, personal sales volume. I learned over a year later that this was NOT supposed to happen, but in fact it was done ALL THE TIME by the higher-ups to take advantage of their downlines, to illegally withhold rebate/bonus money from them. As for myself, I did ask him for my money, and every time he would come up with a new lie as to why he couldn't give it to me. Each time, his response would be more curt and tense, and I got the feeling that if I pressed the matter, he would kick me out of the office (which he could and did do to others, because he was the leaseholder, and his word was the final one).
So I kept my mouth shut, like a good little Equi-bot should. I kept radiating false positivity, even when my bills were mounting, even when the collections calls came fast and furious, even when I had to unfailingly shell out $500 every month for desk rent, plus phone and newspaper ad expenses. I kept up the horrendously fake enthusiasm, even when I would fight with my spouse almost every day about the company. (In fact, that is something else I still feel very guilty about. My spouse eventually began begging me to stay home on the weekends and spend time with him, even when my upline threatened me for not attending the weekend trainings. It repulses me to think that I almost listened to these rapacious Equi-nazis who exhorted me to leave him because he didn't "see the opportunity". I thank God every day that I didn't listen to them about that!)
Still, the false front was maintained, even when I was forced by my upline to attend trainings every single weekend about 1 hour's drive away (2 hr's total commute time), and forced to shell out $300 for training seminars in distant cities every month (plus gas, hotel, food, sales aids, etc.). I kept the painted happy face on even though my upline verbally abused me almost every day, and I was never allowed to defend myself in front of the office people. Though I never became good at "the business" (few people ever do), I became extremely good at taking loads of abuse from all sides at once.
I know I've taken up a lot of space, but I must emphasize one more thing before I end this - the mind control and cultish tactics that were exhibited in that company chill me to the core, even today. I fancied myself an intelligent, perceptive, self-aware person, able to withstand almost anything. But I was simply not prepared for the cult-type tactics they used to control me. They were great at psychologically manipulating new recruits into shelling out their last dime for product, training, etc., anything to get them hooked on the company. Even after I learned what was really going on, I found it extremely hard to extricate myself from the company's clutches. They do an excellent job of mentally tearing you down, and making you totally dependent on the company. They told me I was a loser if I quit, that Equinox was the only way I'd ever be successful at anything, that corporate America would chew me up and spit me out, etc. etc.
Sadly enough, it worked, at least for one year's time and $10,000 worth of my money. I finally left that horrid place when I simply couldn't pay the coming month's desk rent. So, even though they repeatedly told me that they were the ONLY ONES that ever really cared about me, guess what happened? That's right, they kicked me out of the office right then and there, when they saw I couldn't fork over the cash anymore. I was crushed at the time, but in hindsight, it was the best thing that happened to me. I got a job at a local marketing research center. Remember, this was a purely military town, so meaningful, higher-paying work was rare. However, even though I started out only making about $7.00/hr, it was steady work, and I began to rebuild my fragile self-esteem and sense of worth. I began to repair my marriage, which was teetering on the brink of divorce for months, and I began to pay all those past-due bills and put an end to the constant collection calls.
Slowly but surely, I put my life back together. And here I am. I've made it to the other side, a much stronger person. For those of you reading this who are either contemplating or are already enmeshed in the Equinox cult, DON'T DO IT, GET AWAY FROM IT NOW!!!!!!! They promise financial freedom, but they actually want to control you, make you dependent on them, and take you for everything you're worth. There are other articles that can explain it much better than I can, but in an MLM, you are set up to fail!! It IS NOT your fault if you're not successful, no matter what your upline says. (Incidentally, he/she's probably waaaaaay more broke than you are, and is just trying to keep you in so they can squeeze more money from you!) The outside people, you know, the ones whom your upline deems "losers", "negative people", "those stupid jerks who just don't see the opportunity", (usually parents, spouse, friends, colleagues) those are the very people YOU SHOULD be listening to. They are just trying to talk some sense into you - they were around before this all-controlling MLM made its way into your life, and they are the ones who truly care about you.
So, folks, do what's right for YOU!!!!! Think for yourself, and keep on keepin' on! Thanks for reading my story, I hope you got something out of it. Take care!!
To the maintainer of the website - I would be extremely grateful if you would post this on your web site, and if you're not too busy, reply if you can. Of course, this posting is now yours, and you may edit for clarity if you wish. Just please keep in as much of "history of abuse and illegal tactics" as you can, because I know that there were a lot of other dupes like myself who had their rebate/bonus money withheld from them by unscrupulous uplines who forced them to route orders through other peoples' sales numbers. I hope that I and others like myself can blow the lid off this company, if enough of us come forward!!! Thanks again for letting me rant. Take care of yourself!!! :-)
Re: Amway in Germany
I write from Germany, and I´m very glad, really, to have found your home page about Amway´s perversions, if I may call it like that (and I want to!). Because, in German language and with german search engines, it was only possible to get home pages of "sponsors" from Amway. At attended 2 meetings with a sponsor and one "open house", and I went almost "sick" when I heard these things. You know even better than I do what I´m talking about. One question I have: As it´s not possible in present time to get true info on Amway in German language and as they´re right now heavily promoting their "business" in all newspapers possible, it would be great if I could translate some of your articles to German and put it onto my homepage, so that others can be warned also. Do you allow that? And if yes, which of your sites? Thanks a lot again Re: Amway/Quixtar
Hello, I happened to stumble onto your site and wanted to write you a note... First I would like to say that I am sincerely sorry to hear of the events that happened to you in your former Amway business. I am still an active distributor in Amway & Quixtar. I have been active for 4 years now and have acheived the 1,000 pin level. However, I had a lot of growing to do and a lot of negetive programming to get rid of over the last 4 years. I believe this is why I have not acheived the level of Direct yet. But that is my fault, not anyone else's! I was negetive about everything...that's the family environment that grew up in. No, I am not brainwashed except for some remnants of the brainwashing I got in architecture college.
I have read almost all of the emails you have posted from others. Ther are some things that trouble me as I read about these other people who supposedly "owned their own business".
1) Why are they complaining about tools? Are these not people who were educated in a university or a high school...who purchased MANDATORY books and manuals...from the school book store FOR THE SCHOOL'S PROFIT...all to get a degree and learn to be good at what they are doing? Please answer this for me. You all have a choice whether to purchase your tools. Just like when you were in school...if you want to do more than just earn a "c" in class or if you want to take what you learned and apply it to your career, it may require you to do some "research", "studying", "counseling", attending some "seminars". Come on folks!
2) Also regarding tools, if these people are not getting their money back from their upline, all they need to do is write or call Amway Distributor Relations 800 number, give them the uplines ADA# and complain. The Corporation has been known to seek these red-herrings out and sort of put them on probation.
3) I too have had people get in and people get out. That's OK...It's like flying on a jet...some people can handle it while others can't. Distribution is not for everyone. Neither is running a people-business. There's nothing wrong with that. I don't (nor should anyone else) persecute others for at least trying it and then saying "this just isn't for me."...It's OK. My family is negetive, but I still love them. Someday I hope they see the benefits of what I am doing.
4) Regarding the tools and functions being a profit center for your upline directs and above, I cannot explain why they do that. I have watched my line of sponsorship closely and this behavior is not present at all.
5) And finally, regarding some of those who complain about us dressing up in our suits, I see people going to church in their suits. I see people going to WORK in their suits. I see almost everyone going to JOB INTERVIEWS in suits. Usually the one in the suit has something to offer of value. At WORK...it may be that you are securing a new contract for the company. At CHURCH, maybe it is a reflection of your desire to impress upon your God that He is important in your life. And at the JOB INTERVIEW, you have the skills that the hiring compnay needs.
Once again, I am sorry for the way that you and the others have been treated. I am thankful to be a part of an organization that does not operate this way (no I'm not spamming you). I speak the truth. I wish you the best of luck in your endevors and I hope that if someone does approach you again in the future, please remember this email. Not everyone is a jerk.
If you wish to respond, my info is below:
Re: Quixtar
Hello!
I just signed up to be IBO for Amway and Quixtar this weekend. My sponsor's are friends from college. They have been in the Business about 8 years. Am I going to make money in this venture? One of the e-mails posted states how much money and time lost through Amway functions and tools. Will I meet phony people? Will it be several years before I see people and theBusiness for what it really is ? I am unsure about the value of Points I need to have each month to get a 6.00 bonus check. Do you think the products are overpriced? I have product loyalty to many things I use now. I'm not sure Amway will be a good substitute product. I am skeptical about how the Diamond's get their money. Is this a good move for me? I'm not brainwashed yet.
Thank you for your assistance.
Sincerely,
Re: Nikken
Thank you for an excellent site.
I have sent this message to a coupe of other mlm concnern sites.
I am concerned about the development of an mlm operation selling Nikken magnetic products in Scotland. The distributors seem to be making outlandish claims about the supposed health benefits of magnetic insoles, mattresses etc and to be undertaking demonstrations which look as if they could simply be illusions.
Is there a mailing list of former or current mlm people who might have information on the products, techniques etc in this case?
with thanks
Re: MLM
I found you while reseaching MLM promotional opportunities...... You're apparently very NEGATIVE on MLM. While not negative, I'm extremely CAUTIONARY...
I've written three books (actually book, booklet, workbook): MLM: CAUTION & CONFIDENCE A business lawyer looks at the nature of both the beauty and the beast. And I've just finished a website for promoting these three books (it needs work..... but it's up and running).
Now I'm ALMOST ready to start promoting, and am now searching for leads.... site links... e-mail mailings... newsgroups... WHATEVER....
Any suggestions on how to get the word out? Do you sell marketing lists? Do you know who does? THERE'S NOT MUCH OBJECTIVE STUFF ON MLM OUT THERE.... AND I THINK MY STUFF IS HELPFUL!
I just read your attempt at blck flaging quixstar, and for the record, y'all are a joke. it is very obvious you have no real idea what it is all about. I wish I was at liberty to correct you on your misfinding, however being the business persons we are, we won't. My advise to you is to check things out more before you bash them in the future.
signed, concerned consumer
Re: Omegatrend
Hello from Canberra.
You say you were involved in Omegatrend back in 1991 to 1993 or thereabouts.
Have you heard of the recent additions that Omegatrend has put in place this year?
If not I suggest you may want to have another look at what is on offer from this company here in Australia, New Zealand and Malaysia. Other countries to follow soon.
Loren and Sandra Watts have moved from Perth and now live in Sydney.
They purchased a beatiful mansion down near Palm Beach overlooking the Pittwater area.
They have also decided to put more money back into the lower areas of the business (Executive Sterling).
These new enhancements cut in now at the OES level at 1500 PV. You now can receive $2,000 a month on top of your bonus at this level.
The OES level is also referred to as Club 12.
Considering what OES's were paid prior to this incentive at 1500PV, I think Omegatrend is not quite as bad as you make it out to be.
Sure its MLM and yes it can be heart breaking if you don't get the rewards when you put the effort in (which is your point).
This is one scam as you call it that needs a second look, even if it is to simply update the information on your web site.
What level did you achieve in this business before you decided to quit?
You had 2 or 3 products to promote. Now there is over 300 products.
You did not have product credits or half price shopping like we do now.
Sure you had a lot more obstacles to overcome back then.
The company has now released a business tool called a flip chart which comes with a script telling you what to say about each page.
OK you survived as you put it. Are you happy with your life now? Great! you succeeded in what you set out to achieve.
Is that achievement the same as when you first joined Omegatrend back in 91-93?
Enjoy your life.
I am in the process of trying to sell back my "tools" after being in for a relatively short period of time. Besides the disappointment of QUIXTAR and its false hype, a final straw was when the sister of my "direct" mentioned that the direct refers to her downline people who don't become CORE as "deadbeats." I thought we poor downliners are people she is trying to help succeed! Are we "deadbeats" because she thinks we "OWE HER" money? So add that to the Amway vocabulary--those that see the scams and lies and drop out are defined variously as "losers," "dream destroyers," and "deadbeats." In my book, we are the smart and ethical ones! 10/17/99
This page updated Nov-05-99
You are Survivor #
to read visitor E-mails on this site since January 1, 2000.