I'm am very greatful for your site and will spend much time here learning.
May I impose of someone there that could advise how to bust a Quixtar/Amway spammer? .... spamcop and samspade both provide excellent info, however, they do not "read" the personal account numbers one enters to get to the site and that account number would be the only person benefiting from it....besides Amway or Quixtar of course.
I do have the spam and headers for review by your staff. Spam&headers were forwarded as recommended as well as sent to several different amway addys....and as of today, no auto response, no replies...not surprised.
I myself have webtv and our moderated forum is most interested in any developments I find. Should you be willing to assist me, you will be assisting many spam haters that wish to learn how to bust this type of sneaky MLM spam as well as receivers.
I'm wondering why you spend so much of your energy on this topic. Granted there are MLMs that are illegal, but why not focus your time on something more positive. There are so many others who could use the energy you are putting into this particular subject. Just think of all the homeless, abused and minorities that could be helped with the amount of time and energy you devote to "informing" people about MLM scams. You sound like a person who care about others; why not do something really constructive and get involved with our government in resolving the people who fall through the cracks due to inadequate checks and balances. How many abused children have to die before some system is in place to ensure our children are protected? How many abused women have to die before someone ensures the "system" stops this horrific problem? Think about it.
Hi,
At first glance, I found nothing about Excel Telecommunications on your site. Do you know anything about them or any links regarding them? I went to a meeting with by invitation of a friend's daughter. I fear she is being taken advantage of--the usual, pay us to train you, etc. I'm looking for solid information to share with her and her parents.
Thank you for your time and attention.
Re: MLM
I just got finished reading your story, and really do feel for you.
I am a MLM'r but the truth be told, it's not for everyone. I am having great success at it, no I don't spend money on "tools," but what I do think happens in more cases than not, "upline" does not counsel properly, pushes tools on many because they don't want to take the time to train you themselves.
I have found to be really successful in this business it takes a lot of "high touch" to coin a phrase. That is how I build my business, not by pushing tapes and seminars, oh don't get me wrong I do go to an occasional seminar and read a book or two (of my own choosing), but that's me. In my opinion by duplicating myself, in other words, showing others how to do exactly what I do, they in turn will do the same, and guess what ... it works! No big cash outlay, work? Yes, lots of it. MLM is not a get rich quick scheme and anyone who promotes it as such is misrepresenting themselves. As with any "sales" career, you get what you put into it. Just reading books, going to seminars, and listening to tapes is not going to make you rich! You need to take what you get from any form of "tool" and apply it. Learn from it, by thinking that if you just do these things money will fall into your lap is absolute malarkey. I know a few PHD's out there that feel that because they've spent the money on education they should just be rich!!! Oh well, it doesn't work that way I'm sorry to say, yes they paid for an education (kind of a tool I would say) but, they have to take that education and know how to apply it.
It' s true there are many scam MLM's out there, I know of someone personally who was involved with one. She spent all kinds of money, brought over 30 people "in" in the 1st month, and never received a dime. These people also spent all kinds of money!!!!
I don't make a dime off of "brining anyone in," my income comes after sales are made, and not by me making those sales. I promote it as "I am the 'advertiser," if you like what you see and purchase something, then I get "paid"" These businesses that you have to buy hundreds of dollars of product to set yourself up in business make me sick. I've been there and done that!
E-commerce is the way of the future, and there will be many more millionaires made from it. As to MLM on the web, the key is choosing the right one for the right person, and, as I stated in my second sentance, MLM isn't for everyone, so by going around "sponsoring" everyone you know doesn't work. You need to know up front what it is all about, and most importantly having the right people around you to give you the information you need to make an informed decision. If the people you are involved with wont' give you all the answers to your questions, move on....
There are many very good MLM's out there, and it really is too bad that some of the people involved in them have given them a bad name, it's not always the organization, it's the people who get involved that ruin it for many.
I am very successful at what I do, and yes I do put a lot of time and effort into it, but what I put into it I do get back in many ways. Income, and a well being knowing that what I do is not done by misrepresentation are just 2 examples. Any thing done the right way (morally and ethically) has its rewards. What you put in you get out 2 fold!
Thank you and good luck to you in your future.
Re: Trek Alliance
I thought I would drop you a line to inform you of a scam that I found in Colorado. I responded to a Marketing Manager job on Headhunter.net (link at bottom of page). When I contacted Cindy, the young lady who posted the ad, I was told that I had a great opportunity to work for a health company doing $35 million in sales. When I went in for my "interview" I knew an attempt at brain washing was about to take place.
I was surrounded by roughly 20 other "interviewees" gathered in front of a large screen and marker board. Eventually a young lady began an enthusiastic speech informing us about the woe's of drinking tap water. luckily her company, Trek Alliance (DBA Rocky Mountain Alliance) sells water filters along with other health related products. I was reminded of another pyramid scheme involving water filters by a company called NSA. She also boosted about the company founders - Rich Von, Tiffany Von, Harry Flagg and Kale Flagg.
Eventually another member of Rocky Mountain Alliance was brought up front to explain the pay structure of the company. He explained how the real way to make money is to find other sales reps to sell the product for you, so you really don't have to work, they will do all the selling for you! An obvious pyramid scheme.
What I found most disturbing was the excitement on the faces of all of the other "interviewees." I left half way through the presentation along with two other gentleman, but everyone else stayed. I'm not sure if you can do anything to warn people about Rocky Mountain Alliance, but I thought I would at least let you know about it.
below are links to the ad I responded to and the home page for trek alliance.
thanks
the ad:
http://www.headhunter.net/jobstv/gb/j07kh1mk5z5czw4bgb.htm?ShowJob
trek homepage: http://www.trekalliance.com/index.html
Hello,
Was I ever happy that I decided to try one more site and I found yours. After 15 years experience you would think I would know enough to not get scammed.I'm sorry I don't know which country you live in but I'm sure you have heard of these scams.They were very costly experiences and though it has been 3 yrs. I still feel angry,hurt,embarassed.What to say,they almost cost me a 31 year old marriage,a family.Why aren't there more laws against them.
The first one looked great on paper,Jewelway.It was expensive to come aboard,so much hard work and then just when I thought it might all pay off,it went belly up.And I and friends still have thousands of dollars in coupons in our briefcases.
You'd think I'd learned but no,when Dollars came along I went right along.I worked hard and received a couple of checks.But the morning I learned what they had done,I wanted to die.I went for 2 years not wanting to see people,visit family,because I sold them the idea.I shot up to 252 lbs. in other words,my life was a mess.
After reading your mail,I feel better.I know now I'm not the only one who was tricked and that smart knowledgeable and hard-working people do get caught up in these and other MLM market schemes.
Thank You Very Much,
A friend
I'm not there yet but I did show some of the Silver Platinum's in my downline your story and it brought out a lot of good ideas for something that we are putting together call support central. It would be a nonprofit support company for the people in my group. Thank you,
Re: Pre-Paid Legal
Pre-paid is the most sought after employee benefit in the country according to employee benefit magazine and others. I am doing well. My daughter is doing very well in Utah and Colorado. What I have done in a year with corporate America she is doing in a month!
Starlight is the premium company in the nutrition field. check it out on starlightonline.com. You really need to go to one of their conventions to get a true feel of the integrity of the company and management. Robert Wagner is one of or spokespersons.
Re: Amway/Quixtar
Within the last several months I've had two friends that I greatly respect ask me to dinner in order to "visit" and "get to know me better." Both occasions ended up turning into Amway or Quixtar presentations with the pressure being put on pretty heavily to get involved. If I didn't respect these folks so much I would have probably left right in the middle of it. Why do otherwise bright, sane people get involved with this? I have always considered these "businesses" a scam but my knowledge of them is really not that great, I've just sort of gone on "feel"; however, now I would like to learn more about these things in order to prevent other people from being duped. But, I need facts. What exactly is a "pyramid scheme" and does Quixtar fit this definition (last night my friend, a reputable eye surgeon no less, remarked that Quixtar was not a pyramid scheme)? Can these places really compete with the prices of Wal-Mart and other discount stores? Is there a reputable e-commerce business that does not use deception or trickery to get people involved? Any and all information you could provide on these subjects would be most appreciated. Thanks,
Re: Equinox
Thank you very much for replying to my email, I can't wait to see it on your site! (Gee, I'm finally published! ha ha) Anyway, you may be interested to know that the Michigan Attorney General's office contacted me (and my brother, who was also involved) today. (I still can't quite figure out why, because I and my family live in OH. Go figure.) They asked me a lot of detailed questions, and informed me that I may be asked to give a deposition regarding my experience with Equinox! That would be an extremely satisfying experience, to be able to help put those crooks away for good.
I've also read the preliminary injunction issued by Circuit Ct. judge Johnnie Rawlinson against Equinox (it made sense to me, because I'm currently attending law school). I've read a few other injunctions, and this one seemed to contain some rather strong language in it (or maybe I'm just excited because this company is about to be put to a very shameful end!!) Could you possibly provide a link to the FTC page where it's contained? I'm sorry I can't give you more information than the general site; I'm such a techno-peasant!! It's www.ftc.gov and a site search will produce the full text of the injunction, in "pdf" format.
Thank you again, I have a real sense of accomplishment about this, and maybe my posting (among many others) will help others leave/stay away from such a horrid company. Keep up the excellent work!!!
Thanks for responding Ruth...
I have read your responses and I hear what you say about some of the things you feel are wrong. However, I can still compare this activity to the "working world" where the similar things occur.
For example: 1) Regarding the tools. Hopefully you would agree with me that when you went through school to get your education, you "subscribed" to the "need" for your textbooks and other literature in order to succeed in that particular class and eventually in your chosen career. It's like learing to fly airplanes, you NEED to study books first. If you did not NEED to learn from written material (and audible), you would most certainly fail...tragically!! If you are a Christian, your minister would tell you that you need to read your bible (I am not imposing on your freedom of religion...just an example). I used to be a youth minister at my church. In order for me to be qualified to teach my kids, I needed to read, study and learn from others who had already learned this stuff. We aren't born with instant IQ's. Please remember...we, as a member of the human race have been learning from our parents and mentors all our lives. It's not any different in the business world. By the way, when you purchase anything in this country, have you been successful at finding out how much of a profit that person is making off of you? How much does the grocery store make off you? How much did the mall take you for last weekend in profits? Did you ask them to disclose the profit amount? Come on...compare apples to apples here. Your opinion is heard but is not unbiased.
2) About profiting on training, I don't know your profession, but I will assume you are employed by someone else. The boss person uses us as an "expendable resource". Trust me. I used to work for a large retailer here in Arizona. One day they decided that they no longer needed my department. But anyways, if you are employed, you belong to the oldest pyramid scheme on the planet (but don't worry, I do too for the time being). Unless you are the CEO, you will never pass up the CEO as far as income. In the Amway business, once you have successfully acquired the level of Direct, you can exceed your sponsor's income, even your sponsor's sponsor. I have meet Double Diamonds who are still sponsored by an active Ruby.
3) As far as what I believe I will achieve, still...this is entirely up to me. I need to get out there and say hello to people, not my upline. My success is predicated on my work...just like it is in the JOB. If I work hard at my JOB, meet my deadlines, I am considered successful. If I let my boss do all the work for me, I am just a slug. That's a fact. I got into Amway/Quixtar to supplement my income to reduce my debt and to replace my wife's income so that she can raise our unborn child from home...Once again, our choice. I didn't get in to become hog-nasty-rich. If it happens, then it happened as a blessing from my Creator. Please forgive me if you are not a Christian, but as one, I believe that this money is not mine. It belongs to my God. I tithe regularly. My favorite charity is KLOVE radio (www.klove.com) a contemporary christian radio station that is internantional. Let me ask you something...did you have a dream that you wanted fulfilled by the Amway business or some other form of income? For your sake, I hope that you have not lost it.
4) Regarding the Wisconsin study on the Direct that lost $918, you may want check your Tax laws, but all businesses report assets and LIABILITIES. For a Direct Distributor who earns $45,000 on his W-2 (if I had a scanner, I would attach a copy of one that my upline received from Amway) and shows a net loss of $918 dollars is doing extremely well. The loss that you mentioned is compirsed of the following: mileage, meals, hotel (if needed)...all are tax deductible for business purposes only according to our fine tax laws here in the USA. Please dig deeper into your sources and study what is being said.
5) And finally, my line of sponsorship is John Crowe (Double Diamond), and Bill Britt (Crown Ambassador). Two people I have watched when I have spent time with them. They are the real thing. They say what they mean and do what they say. You can't find this type of person in the business world...very rarely!
I enjoy listening to your opinions and invite you to continue to respond. By the way my name is ** and it is very interesting to talk to you via email. I do not share what you write with others in case you don't want that. I would be interested in knowing more about your REAL frustrations though.
Re: Amway
I don't know where to start... I'm 26 years old, and live in Canada. I was introduced to Amway almost a year ago, and it's only now that I'm beginning to realize just how much I allowed myself to be deceived. I feel now that I'm at a crossroads: Sell myself out to the lies, or walk away. I cannot, in good conscience, let this go on further, or draw more friends into this web of lies. Thank God I only have a few downline.
But I'm rambling.
Thanks for this site, and giving others a chance to see the side of the MLM business that the "leaders" try to hide. You use the term "hurting from an MLM experience", and that's an accurate description. I feel foolish for not being objective, for letting my greed cloud my judgement. There is consolation in knowing that it's a common experience. I hope you have washed away your personal pain.
I was wondering if you know of any resources for a Canadian distributor who wants to recoup some money spent on a kit and tools. Any info would be appreciated. Best of luck!
Re: Rexall Showcase
I have recently been approached by a distributor to get into the preventive healthcare business through MLM. I have not done anything yet, however, it did look like a good opportunity until I got onto your site.
Can you share any information on Rexall and pass on some advice(I think I know what you are going to say).
Thank you,
Re: Kevin Trudea/NFLI
My husband and I joined NFLI in October 1996, as a part of Kevin Trudeau's Trudeau Marketing Group. At first, it was exciting. As the months went by, it was difficult for us to generate any business - we were both in our mid 20's and it was hard to get any credibility. A lot of people we contacted heard about Kevin's shady business dealings and would not join us or even buy the products.
In June of 1997 we went to "Dream Weekend" in Dallas Texas put on by the Trudeau Marketing Group. Neither David Bertrand (the president of NFLI) or Jana Mitchum (VP of NFLI) or any other company heads were present. My husband and I were greatly disappointed by the way the weekend was handled. It was a glorified "I'm the best" by the top producers. We received very little training - as a matter of fact, it was the same thing rehashed over in their tape-of-the-month club. Kevin was also really pushing people on buying more tools (tapes and books) than they really needed (it is amazing - in his training tapes he stated that we should never go into debt while building a business). The kicker of the whole event was my husband and I met Kevin Trudeau and asked if we could have our picture taken with him. He asked us what our level was in the business - when we told him we were only Bronze Executives - he said when we reached the top level will he take our picture with us. My husband was absolutely LIVID to say the least. We felt like the lowest of the low and left the weekend early.
When we came back, we would go to the weekly training meetings on Saturday mornings. All of a sudden we were now being charged $10 a person to attend these meetings - the reason being that the people who were putting on these meetings were not making any money off of the tools. That was when it hit us - all of Kevin's top producers as well as himself were making huge profits off of the sale of their tools. Then we found the Amway the Untold Story website and found out that Kevin was running his distributorship the exact same way.
We stayed in NFLI even after Kevin was fired from the company. The company started doing things different once Kevin left:
1) They dropped the amount of money to get in from $1000 to $199. They made the tape of the month club strictly optional (for $26 per month - Kevin had it mandatory for $35 per month). The monthly product order was $100. Kevin wanted all of his distributors to purchase $300 per month.
2) No leaders in the company were allowed to make any money off of the sale of books, tapes, and recruiting tools. When people got their distributor kit, several sponsoring videos and audios were included.
We quit the business just this past July. The reason being, funds were getting tight. My husband and I examined why the business did not work for us. We came up with several points:
* It was not a joint effort. My heart was in building the business - he was very skeptical.
* Kevin demanded that we had to go to every open opportunity meeting. That didn't sit well with us.
* We were naive enough to go into debt in building this business (instead of building it slowly and with little expense). We didn't have the business savvy.
* We didn't believe in the products. We never used nutritional supplements before in our lives and could not get excited about the products to sell.
* No upline support. We found that our upline would pay attention to us only when we made money. If we weren't sponsoring anyone, they just ignored us. When we told them we were resigning, they called us "Dream Stealers" and we haven't heard from them since.
Being in NFLI was a great learning experience though. We learned the do's and don'ts of being in an MLM business. We still love the idea of MLM, and plan to do it again in the future. Next time we will do our due diligence and research the company fully before we commit again. To do MLM, please due your diligent homework. Approach this as an investment opportunity and cover all angles.
Re: Primerica
Is there a password and name that is needed to enter this site? It keeps asking for it and I really want to see that site. I am being approached be some of there reps and I really don't want to do business with them until I have the proper information about them.
Thank you in advance,
Re: Quixtar
First off I'd like to say that your site has tremendously helped my side of the argument in my family. Thank you.
Recently, a member in my family came home with a Quixtar intro CD. When I saw it, it was poorly made and presented and i didn't know what the hell it was saying. I was though, fascinated that they made CD'd that had the edges cut off. that was about it.
A few weeks later, he started going to the meetings, and then started preaching to everyone else, saying how great it was. Even though he said himself the Quixtar site was pretty bad. But he got more people involved. Friends, neighbors, etc. all started to attend. All getting their Amway kits with crap products and catalogs for $70. And of course, the tapes.
I was in the car one time listening to these things. Its just a bunch of people talking about their dreams, and how you too should follow your own. I found these tapes very entertaining.(I laughed my ass off when one guy tried to relate Amway to a legless Buddhist climbing a mountain) But they don't say anything. And the two people in my family get angry when I laugh at their "dreams."
Now three times a week they pay to go to meetings, listening to other people talk about their "dreams." I dont have a problem with it, I get free time alone. But its when they sat me down and tried to get me involved. My answer: NO. Even before I've read this site, I knew something was up, I just needed a different prespective. Luckily, I found this site.
But now, there's this book that came into the household right after I read the site. "Who stole the American Dream" and what's it dealing with? Freedom. All the pieces of the puzzle are falling into place. I told my family member that this whole thing is a waste of time. She told me too keep an open mind. Well if I kept an open mind to everything, I'd be a drug addict. I told someone else about the site and the whole Microsoft deal. It was just in one ear and out the other. They're already brainwashed.
Tghe problem is, I can't convince them of anything. To them, I'm just "the stupid 15 year old" who doesn't know anything. That's where I need some advise. I just have a few questions.
1) Have any IBO's ever mailed you saying that they did make money trough Quixtar and Amway? Cause the way these meetings are set up, there are millionaires all over the place.
2) The book I mentioned about, "Who Stole The American Dream," is this book published by Amway. Cause what it says inside it is a lot like what these guys preach.
3)Last Question: What can I do? Since I'm dependent off of the people in my family, if they lose money, I'll suffer aswell. How can I get to them?
The way I see it, is that Quixtar and Amway are like whn you buy a book sometimes, you'll look at the front and back covers, read the intro, read the "about the author", read "other books by the author", hear all these great things about the book you have in your hands, but you never actually read the book itself. Thats the way I see it.
I thank you for time, and I apologize if I rambled. I just had to make this situation heard. Where I am now, the roller coaster is going up its first ramp. If I could have advise, this could be stopped before it takes off.
Thanks again,
I found your sight while doing my "homework on that quixtar stuff, because I received a call from a friend about how much money he is going to make. I tell you it looks real good with your own website. I am not sure what to think and how i got to your sight i don't know but send me some info back what the real deal is. Thanks
Re: Melaleuca
Is Melaleuca legit or just an MLMscam? can I find printed info on the net Please answer me at my home email ***
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