The following posts have been reprinted in their entirety from posts e-mailed by readers of this website, except that headers, names and locations have been removed. These posts express the opinions and experiences of their authors, and this site publisher makes no representations about them in any way whatsoever.
Subject: Re: Amway
hello again -
it's been a few years now, since i "did my time" in Amway - 2 years of unexpected expenses, travelling (to seminars), doing accounts (+ paying an accountant to audit em) and getting the brush-off from friends who got pretty tired of hearing about my dream of a wealthy lifestyle.
it was not just the money that was attractive, but also the "ENTHUSIUSIASM" (yup, i meant to spell it that way) that my up-liners demonstrated - they are the ones who coined that mis-spelt word, by the way!!!
I ended up getting 2 things out of the business - and i was glad for both of them
Why did I quit? well, there are a number of reasons -
Maybe if i really needed the money more, i would have tried even harder and things may have ended differently.
As it was, my direct up-liner quit after a fight with his up-liner, which made it even harder for me to be ENTHUSIUSIASTIC - and not exactly easy when i decided to quit - talk about "the cold shoulder" - all the bonhomie gone like the morning mist - i never saw or spoke to them again.....
If life is a learning curve, then Amway sure figured on my graph - it also helped me make up mind to quit my job and go into business for myself, in a real shop, talking to people who wanted to be my customers and had come there to buy something - not chasing a dream.
I'm not bitter - I have my kites, and the joy they bring to people who have always wanted to fly, but want their feet securely on the ground.
"have a nice day" - and if you ever get the chance to "go fly a kite" then i urge you to do so - take a look at my website if you want to know more!
Subject: Scamster Amway
I was new to this country and well like all others on school campus was looking for jobs. I met an interesting guy who talked a lot of computers, databases(my field of work currently) and networking! He would always say networking is better than databases. He told me that I could meet a lot of stalwarts in the field of networking if I could come to his house for a party and I fell for it. He then gave me a dress code and I was petty astonished.
I realised that these guys were cult when all of them sat with an AIWA system in the middle of the room and starting listening to a cassette. It was pretty wierd scene to see doctors by profession who make enough money, coming to these cheap parties where u get ur own coke. It was a great article written by and I congratulate u for getting out of it.
Subject: Scamster Amway
Hi. Thanx for an immediate response to my mail!
You have guessed it right. I'm from India and a place called Bangalore (South India) which is now called the Silicon Valley of Asia. I do know that Amway is going big time to India. I know (I mean Knew!) a lot of Indians who were(are) in Amway and plan to give up their jobs here in the US and go back to India to achieve the top of the pyramid position in India!!
The other day, a bunch of NON-AMWAY guys were discussing we should go outright like AMWAY guys AGAINST AMWAY. That is go PUBLIC!! I keep running into the scamster in places like K-Mart, WallMart, Kroger or sometimes in Theatres and start the conversation like " Do I know u?" or "Have we met before?". I hate that kind of an attitude. You wanna sell talk straight.
All I can say KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!!
Hi Diana and Joe,
I've read your story, and it sounds very similar to ones that I have heard. Including my parents. But my brother and I have decided to sign up for Amway anyway, and have done so already. My brother, his best friend, and I have come up with a system that we like to think of as an alternative amway. We stress upline support, a real home-based business, and give our version of the truth on tapes. In fact, we almost totally disregard every thing that amway says and have started over, with what we think is a working system.
We decided that we didn't want ot get rich quick, but instead have a long lasting business. To do this we discarded the notion of going wide, where the money is, and instead went deep, where we hope the stability is. Using the concept of 3 workers out of 15 non-workers, we set our sites on going 15 deep on our A leg, before we can start our B leg. So instead of just you and maybe a couple of others above helping, there will be 14 others just waiting to get someone under you.
When someone does start their B leg, it works almost the same as above, but just a little harder starting out.
We also suggest that our downline not buy the tapes. Our theroy on that is that if your upline cannot motivate you enough, then a impersonal tape won't either. We stress the upline helping their downline succeed.
Just to let you know that this is working, my brother is about to become a direct after only signing up three months ago. His friend is right after him. The concept is that of a chain reaction.
I hope you the best.
An Alternative AmWay "The shallow river will disapear is here today but gone tomorrow, but the deep river will flow throughout the dryest summer."
Hi
I was also taken in by Amway and I was glad to see your page and responses. I was also glad to be able to be open to the MLM concept even though I had been burned in Amway. I now am a Shakle distrbutor who truly has her health and happines in order. It was wonderful to read your story and responses and plan to send anyone I come across in or considering Amway to your page. What a great service uou are doing for others. God Bless you both!!!
To Your health
We were approached by a co-worker. My wife was excited, I was skeptical. I joined and decided to give it a shot. I asked a lot of questions, I mean A LOT! But, I was told they couldn't tell me how much they made at this because the FTC may say they were "enticing" me with promises of wealth. Once I got my kit, I reviewed all the material and asked about the 10 customer rule and the 70% rule and the buy-back rule and how come I wasn't told I had to keep 2500pv above a direct leg to stay a direct leg. But, I listened to more tapes and read some books and started to believe I could do this. The hardest thing I have to do is recruit people with the "curiosity approach". I feel it is deceiving and unnecessary. But, my upline tells me I won't even get someone to look at the plan if they know it is Amway. If the company can not stand on its own name and I can't be proud of what I am doing then why would anyone else want to join such an organization. More books and tapes. Finally, we are having a hard time paying bills and feeding our family. I decided to check out the AUS site. It didn't tell me anything I didn't already suspect, but stuff I tried to push aside so my wife and I could secure some financial stability. I know this is a rambling message, but I find I am mad at myself for falling for this and should have listened to my gut feeling that there is something wrong with this. Now, I have to figure a way to get my wife to see that this isn't all it is cracked up to be. Amway distributors should take notice.
On the flip side, I have meet some very nice people who I don't think are taking me to the cleaners on purpose but think they are truly helping us out.I really like our sponsers and it will be hard to break this thing off. thanks.
Part II
I called my upline direct last night and told him we no longer want to be a part of the "business". When I told him about everything I had read on these pages he said he knew nothing about the lawsuits and suggested I call our upline diamond for advice. After telling him I wasn't going to do that he kept telling me how he "wasn't going to let anyone steal his dream" and he "couldn't imagine his wife working the rest of her life". After realizing none of that had an effect on me he tried telling me that there are crooked people in everything and I agreed, but I told him I wanted no part of it. After telling my wife everything, she and I started picking apart what had been happening to us for the last six months and it fell right into the pattern of a lot of the stories you have posted on your page. The feelings of guilt for not providing better for our children, driving 10 and 12 hours to a rally, never telling people what you are really doing, promoting books, tapes and functions, and, the worst of all, being advised to let our six year old figure out his own homework while we were out showing the plan and limiting his activities so as not to tie us down at home. We have really been questioning what we were doing for about the last month, and when we saw other peoples stories and your page we finally, FINALLY, understood where the real money was being made. It made us sick. We are currently in the process of calling friends and family to apologize and alert them to what this "business is all about. Will keep you updated as time goes on.
The other day a person who I recently met started talking to me about a business called Britt/worldwide. He mentioned that they had some association with Amway. As a college graduate and a son of a father who sees everything as shit unless convinced otherwise, I was skeptical of this man drawing all these circles on the back of this paper. I am not the smartest person around, but I thought this sounded more like a cult than a business. Can you please e-mail and tell me if my feelings are correct. Or if you have any information about this so-called business (Britt/worldwide).
Thanky you,
PS I like your website. There should be more of the same. F*** amway.
Part II
I sincerely thank you for your prompt response. I guess I am smarted than I thought. My psychology degree paid off in some respect.
As this person, who introduced me to Britt/worldwide, was talking to me the only thing he mentioned was how much money all these top executives or head cult leaders are making in one month. That's the whole scam. duh... They suck you in by tapping into your emotions. This guy claims he will be retired in 5 years. What an idiot. Wake up. Hello, your on earth. Anyone who believes these cult oriented, fictious, brainwashed, people should personally get their head examined. I believe they are the most brainwashed group of people in the entire nation. Anyway, again I appreciate the quick response and I will cancel the appointment with this guy who is associated with Britt/worldwide and give his ridiculous tapes back. The people in the tapes are so fake it's unbelievable. I listened to the one tape for two minutes and turned it off because I couldn't believe how stupid these people were. It's like they are in a big dream called, "AMWAY." Please keep your informative web sites on the net because they are excellent and very important in saving people's lives.
Thank you,
I have just completed reading the article concerning the lawsuit being filed by Morrison and followers and it saddens me to think that with the success that these individuals were experiencing that they would take this road. It would be nice if allo the concerned would remember that everything they are suing for they have done. The tool promotions, seminar promotions, etc. They all promoted that. It sickens me to think that none of the people in the lawsuit have an ounce of integrity and all they are doing is hurting many other people. It is amazing to me what greed will allow a person to do. Dr. Joe and Dawn Morrison were leaders that many people looked up as well as myself and it is truly a blow to find out their true colors.
I am a direct distributor and I resent anyone saying that "ALL" direct distributors shove tools and functions down their distributors throat. Myself nor my husband do so. I wish them lots of luck, because they will truly need it. Being underhanded never gets you in life where you want to be and this is truly underhanded and will hurt many people.
Sincerely,
This post was sent in response to Diana & Joe's Story. It comes in several parts
Heard about your webpage and thought I'd check it out. I'm empathetic for you inability to manage your finances and lack of backbone. I have had distributors of your caliber in my downline. Fortunately, they were smarter than you and got out after spending only about $6,000 or so.
Really, I don't understand it...but then, maybe I do. Who was it that said "there's one born every minute"? We'll, I guess you know when you were born. :)
Did you know you're the kind of person a used car salesman just loves to see come walking on to his lot? He can see your kind coming a mile away.
I just have to say "Shame on you" to your upline. Because, they did you a big disservice. They bring discredit upon the entire world of Amway and all legitimate businesses.
I have to say "Shame on you" to you too. Who said you had to spend $1000 for a weekend function? I've been to nearly every major function. I've slept 15 to a room, and 'splurged' at a $100 room. Even so, with tickets, meals, gas, room, and even a couple of (outstanding!) Goads CDs, I've NEVER spent more that $350 for an entire major function weekend. How can a reasonable person spend $1000 on a weekend? Have you ever heard of G.O.O.D. training? (Get Out Of Debt) That is what they teach in my neighborhood of Amway.
Obviously, you can't handle your finances. Sheesh. Your 'story' starts off that you and your husband are doing "well financially at the time.." and within the next 2 paragraphs you're off telling everyone that you're buying this and that on credit and that now you can't even afford the tapes! I thought you were doing "well financially"? HuH! Who told you to spend money you didn't have? Gosh, you must've had a terrible upline through the Diamond level to tell you all that trash; or else you didn't hear anything except what you wanted to hear and you're both a couple of ........well, no need to call names.
Well, enough time wasted - I got work to do. Have a nice life.(broke)
Part II
I'm in the Britt Organization. I'm not broke, but am working on building an Amway business internationally. I am not a DD yet, to which I attribute it to me inability to devote enough time to because of my travels and job. However, I am making a profit, and, my sister in law whom we have sponsored and is single, has had the time to work the business. She has matched her teaching salary and should be able to retire in late 1998. I know of many, many success stories I could share. For example, my sponsor's sponsors were both SES's in the federal government. His wife has since retired, and they have qualified gold direct. They are very wide and making a good profit. They're good teachers and am helping me and my downline. So, you see, the money is there for those willing to follow directions and work, work, work. Yes, it is NOT easy. Not at all! But then, I've made more money in Amway, and the potential is there for much more, than the measly military retirement I get after over 20 years....and I worked my hiney off in the military.
Listen. In America's Clinton led, pro-liberal society we have today, or in any administration, how do you think a $7 billion a year corporation can exist if it wasn't legal? I'll tell you what. I've seen more stuff while in the service than you'd believe, and no one is trying to get rid of the military.
Amway is an honest and viable business opportunity. But as I said, like any other business. It's not easy to succeed. But the difference is, it is a level playing field. Any success is available to anyone willing to pay the price, just like any other business. The gov't and traditional business are pyramids. I know. I was in it for 20 years; and unfortunately, I still have to work a job - but I won't forever.
Please open your mind and take a good hard look at the program. I'll tell you something else. If you haven't been in Amway and tried hard, 4-5 nights a week for 2 solid years, you have given it an honest try. And frankly, neither have I. That's why I'm still not a DD yet. But I don't blame Amway for that. However, I did give the military a good hard try. It didn't work.
Good luck to you in whatever you do.
Part III.My comments are in bold
Subject: Re: Your Response
Hi there,
I wasn't going to answer your email, but we both have at least a few minutes of our time invested in each other. Honestly, I don't know why I'm spending time on you, or you me - except that I gues we both may have the slim hope that the other will come to his senses and then the one will have "won another one over". :-)
Anyway, here goes. This'll be short because I'm kinda busy at my J.O.B. I will reply to your comments after each one; but first, a quick note. I believe enough in our gov't that if Amway was illegal, it would be investigated. I checked it out myself and am satisfied that it's a viable going concern. Also, some very intelligent people whom I respect are "in it" with me, so, I'm willing to get on the boat with them, and if it turns out to be the Titanic like you say it is, then at least I've taken the chance going in with my eyes opened and fully warned. We're all entitle to try and to make mistakes.
I said this would be short, so now on to my replies to your comments...
Thanks for your response. I don't know what leg of Britt's you're in where they actually teach you not to spend what you're not making. I'm impressed. The majority of stories I hear are just the opposite. And do you know why? Because the motivational business is where the money is, not Amway. Amway is just a recruiting front for the tools business. An "average" diamond will have tool income that's at least 20 times greater than Amway income. Do they tell you how much of every $5 tape(or $6 or $7 or $9 depending on your organization) goes to buy your diamond a mink coat? No, they sure don't. You have to be at least a direct to know the "secret" about tool bonuses. Then the directs don't know what the emeralds make, emeralds don't know what the diamonds make, etc., etc. Dexter Yager admitted in an article published in the Charlotte Observer several years ago that 2/3 of his income comes from tools. Brig Hart, in his $50 million lawsuit against
I'm in the Miller leg. Britt's biggest diamond leg. In fact, Miller hit Crown before Britt did. My diamonds are Kent and Jackie Allen. To very fine people. Kent Allen has been friends with Paul Miller since he was about 5 years old. It took Kent around 14 years at the emerald level to make diamond. You should here his story. Please don't blow up the motivational aspect of the business. I've heard the same in church, in the military, and many large companies do it, especially sales. Besides, the motivational stuff is for the person to help improve himself. The US Gov't spends hundreds of thousands of dollars sending gov't employees to these seminars. I know for a fact. My wife was sent and we still have the tapes at home as proof. Talk about taxpayers waste! Wow. Finally, you don't have to buy the tapes and there is a 6 month money back guarantee on all tools. Again, please don't exagerate the price of the tapes. They are $6 for singles, $12 for doubles throughout Britt. I have international downline who also have a US business in World Wide Dreambuilders (Ron Puryear's group primarily on the US west coast, and yes, former Britt downline). They also pay the same price and get the same tapes. They are $6 each. No more. Now, if you say that the speaker on the tape gets the ENTIRE $6 Note: This is not what I said at all. I was referring to the tool bonus that direct distributors and aboe receive on the tools they move through their organizations, so this argument is irrelevant. (disregard the cost of the tape and other costs), and multiply it by ALL 2 million people in Amway worldwide, that's $12 million weekly. $12 million times 52 weeks in a year is ONLY $624 million annually. Now divide that between all the emeralds and diamonds that speak on these 52 weekly tapes and you will see that there is no way that people like the Hart's, Britt's or anyone else is making 20 times their income on tape sales. Have you seen the PAR Bonus checks that were passed around about 2 years ago? I can pull those off my shelf and show you. Anyway, I understand that quite a bit of money is made from the tapes, but please don't exagerate. It's not 20 times the speakers salary. It doesn't even match the speaker's salary. But it IS substantial, and why not? Do you know how much Steven King gets BEFORE he even writes a book? And that's fiction! It's made up story gunk. The diamonds and emeralds (no one below emerald speaks on a tape) know what they're talking about and it's true. They've done the work.
Amway, Yager and others admitted that his tool income was far in excess of his income from Amway. Check out the Hayden lawsuit, or the most recent, Morrison. At least in the Amway Sales & Marketing Plan, you know exactly what your upline can earn from your efforts combined with their other legs. There are not secrets as there are with tools.
However, I am making a profit, and, my sister in law whom we have sponsored and is single, has had the time to work the business. She has matched her teaching salary and should be able to retire in late 1998.
Well, I'm glad somebody's making some money.
Yes, it is true. Thanks. But she's not alone. I can show you dozens right here in town.
I am not a DD yet, to which I attribute it to me inability to devote enough time to because of my travels and job.
Let's see, Amway offers a 2-5 year plan to reach Diamond. You're not direct yet. But it's your fault, not the fault of the system that made the promises. This is a very typical tactic of a cult. It's called "blame the victim." The system is never wrong, the individual is. If you don't succeed in Amway it's because you didn't show enough plans, or else you didn't show them with the right attitude. . . or else you didn't prospect the right people. . . or else you didn't get enough momentum going. How about, you didn't succeed because the system is designed so that most people fail?
Wait a minute. You're putting words in there. No one made any promises to me. There is no "fault" to assign to anyone. Fault incinuates a wrong, and there is no wrong being done here. There is no victim. Come on, you're getting carried away here. I made an honest statement and you try to use it to make a big deal. Look, the Amway plan shows how in 2-5 years how a person has an opportunity to make diamond if the work and effort is put in. However, no one can predict a person's work ethic or what may or may not happen in his life. It's a plan, an opportunity, nothing else. But it is a good, obtainable one. Now, show me a job or business, or anything, that you can show any adult in the US or 70 plus foreign countries where Joe Average has a chance to be president of the firm and make a lot of money. Just a lot of money, not millions of dollars! I know of no other opportunity in the world that I can show ANY ADULT an opportunity to succeed. There is none.
But the difference is, it is a level playing field. Any success is available to anyone willing to pay the price, just like any other business.
Sorry to disagree, but check out the recent Morrison lawsuit, filed in Harris County TX on January 6, 1997. In that suit, 29 high-level distributors (28 emeralds and one diamond) admit that it is NOT a level playing field: that pin levels are manipulated to favor certain individuals, and that "the dream" as it is promoted is defnitely not available to everyone. Oh -- sorry -- you're in the Britt organization and that's a Yager lawsuit. Well, Bill Britt learned at Dexter Yager's knee. He doesn't advertise it, but Britt was a triple diamond in Yager's organization before he broke off and started producing his own tapes and holding his own functions.
I'll check it out for curiousity's sake and get back to you. Is this one blown out of proportion too?
Please open your mind and take a good hard look at the program.
believe me I've done that. I was a distributor for a long time, and I was employed by a Diamond for several years and traveled the world building his business for him. The "freedom" that they promise you is an illusion, and the people who are hurt so they can live their lavish lifestyles would prey on my conscience too much.
How long were you a distributor? What diamond organization were you in? Were you a distributor before or after you worked for the diamond? What diamond did you work for?
Good luck to you in whatever you do.
You too ***. I appreciate the fact that in spite of our differing viewpoints you have kept your posts pleasant and civil -- I can't tell you how low many distributors in this wonderful, loving, ethical moral business stoop when writing e-mails!
If you're wondering where to find all these lawsuits, check out
$200 Million Lawsuit
The Other
Side of the Plan
Amway:
The Untold Story
Amway
Motivational Organizations: The Nightmare Builders
Best to you!
Cheers,
....and thanks for keeping it civil too! :) Have a good one.
Part IV
Well, here's a couple thoughts for today:
To help people like myself not waste all the years I did. To educate the public about abuses rampant in the AMOs. To help myself heal from the damage that was done to me. In that order.
Yup.
Well, "great teaching" is a matter of opinion. Yes, they often express laudable principles. But watch how they put feet on them. Put God first -- but they turn their churches into the temples of the moneychangers by proselytising their business to their Christian brothers and sisters.
Put family next -- but if your wife doesn't support you in the business, divorce her. Forget your kid's birthday, celebrate it another time, you've got a seminar & rally to go to. Leave your kids with babysitters on holiday weekends while you attend Dream Night, Family Reunion, etc. Give the kids "quality time." Well, you can't have "quality time" with kids until you've given them some quantity time first. It just doesn't work that way. If your in-laws are negative, don't see them, don't let the kids see them, you need to be with positive people. You're building a business now, forget the time with people you've been friends with for 20 years. If they're really friends, they'd be in your business. I'm sorry, this to me is not putting family first, this is total BS. Their first priority is their AMO, pure and simple. The rest is just nice-sounding window dressing.
And they might TELL you to get out of debt. But if you tell them you don't have the $$ to go to the function, they'll tell you to put it on your credit card. "You don't want to miss the information that might propel you to diamond! This function will put you ahead 6 months or more in the business, what's a few dollars on the charge card compared to that?" etc, etc, etc. Maybe *your* sponsors don't do it, but it's rampant throughout the Britt and Puryear organizations, believe me.
***the reason there are new DD faces in the Amagram every month is because new people qualify. Still only 1% of all distributors make it to DD level, read your SA4400. Many directs are "made" by their upline transferring points to help them qualify, not by their own efforts. Read the Morrison lawsuit again, which as far as I know is the first public document to admit this, but which has been going on for years. This is why many of the AMOs have NOT converted to direct fulfillment -- if they did that, they would be unable to transfer points.
No, do you? How about the number of people overseas who fall from marginal living into abject poverty because they're convinced this business is the holy grail and they find out the hard way that it's not. I've been to new country openings, have you?
No, no, no, you are too intelligent to keep misunderstanding what I'm saying here ***. I am not talking about royalties for speaking, which at the diamond level is about five cents per tape. I am talking about TOOL BONUS. You know what PV/BV is. Well, the tools also have points and bonuses. Every tape that sells in Paul Miller's organization -- REGARDLESS OF WHO'S SPEAKING ON IT, FORGET THAT WHOLE ISSUE FOR A MOMENT -- carries bonus. There are also quarterly bonuses. Depending on how his organization is put together, a diamond can make as much as 49% of the selling price on EACH AND EVERY TAPE THAT MOVES THROUGH HIS ORGANIZATION. If the tape sells for $6.00, that means he keeps up to $2.94. Emeralds get slightly less and directs get a lot less. But they receive bonuses on the tools that move through their organizations. They also receive bonuses on the function tickets that move through their organizations. A diamond lifestyle is achieved through the tool bonus, not through his Amway business.
Let's just say you have a medium-sized diamond organization, with 8000 distributors. Of those, according to the SA4400, only about 41% are active. So let's say of that 41%, all are on Standing Order Tape, and 25% of them are also on Pace Setter or Quick Silver Tape. Let's just ignore books, functions, and additional tape purchases for a moment. In this organization, 3280 distributors would be on SOT. An additional 820 (a ridiculously small number) would be getting the second weekly tape, either PaceSetter or Quick Silver. This would mean a total tape sale of 4100 per week. If the diamond made only an average of $2 per tape, this would give him an income of $8200 PER WEEK, just on standing order tapes. This is $426,400 per year. And this does not include other tapes that are ordered: contacting tapes, prospecting tapes, generic tapes, rally tapes, tape packs from functions, videos, books, etc. If he runs his own major functions, he will make a ton of money on the functions as well. He earns anywhere from $7000 on up for speaking at another diamond's function. An "average" diamond will earn twenty times more from his tools and functions than he will from his Amway business. His lifestyle does not come from Amway, it comes from tools. I don't know how much more explicit I can be about this. Figure out how much that average diamond would make from his Amway business. There's no comparison.
I think I just did. I do not have the time nor the inclination to give you all the facts about each aspect of the AMO incomes. The above should show you that I know what I'm talking about.
See above.
You said "No, read your SA4400. Only 1% make it to DIRECT. A very small percentage of that 1% make it to diamond." Well there is only 1 CEO in a company, and a very small number of partners in most firms. There are only about 250 Generals of ALL ranks in the US Air Force of around 500,000 people in the service. AND the number of generals is capped by law. Now how would you go about telling that airman or captain or major how to make general? (Just keep on trying and maybe some day one of them generals will quit, retire or die; and then maybe, if you're good enough and have the right political pull, you may be able to replace him.) At least in Amway the door is open and people are there to help you out.
And in the AMO, they tell you "anyone can be a diamond (or direct, or whatever). All it takes is a quality decision." This is just as big a lie as telling someone "all it takes is a quality decision and you can become CEO or General."
Yes, the door is open for you to spend a lot of money on tools that enrich a few while they lie to you about where their incomes come from. And if you stop buying the tools that support them, the promised help will disappear. Tell your sponsor you're getting off tape of the week and you won't be going to the next seminar & rally and see what happens.
You also said "I do believe that the Amway business used to be a reasonable opportunity for the "average Joe." As it's being taught and promoted and abused in the motivational organizations today, it is not." Ok, this sounds like you've got a crux to bear on some organization. Perhaps your old organization. Were you wronged by your diamond or upline group? I detect a LOT of animosity and bitterness to your old group. So much that it is causing you to do all this from bitterness and a seeking of revenge. What happened?
No, I'm not out for revenge. That would be a waste of time. I'd just like Amway to clean out its Augean stables.
Subject: 10 Lies of MLM comment
There is an 11th lie. MLM provides residule income. In otherwords, once you build the "business", you will alway have money coming in.
However, reality states that if the economy get's real bad or crashes, most people aren't going to spend their last buck on soap or Amway producst they will have to wait 3 days or 3 weeks to get.
I could write a book, having been in this business more than once. First, we went to 23% and never received a penny of bonus. When we objected the DD informed us that the sponsor had three children and could not afford to pay the bonus. however, the last bonus check could be recouped by trading for products at retail. We objected but the triple diamond stood by his DD. and that was that! We didn't get the products at retail, we already had too many in the garage and didn't want any more. And we never saw a penny of bonus.
#2 Signed up under a friend. They had a rule that I could not do the plan, so I took every prospect to them. No one ever signed up. Imagine my chagrin when I found some of my prospects at meetings, sponsored by our sponsor's son, who was ill and needed his business built for him.
#3 Now we are on Social Security, and thought we could make some money to augment our income. Well, we have the tools and function thing--at exhorbitant prices. At least in our former organization and open was only $4 per distributorship--now its $5. each. Functions are appreciably higher. Now we have a sliding scale for functions, the later you sign up the higher the price. Guess what, there is no price set for after a certain date, because they think the function will be sold out.
Now, we have home shopping delivered--O wow!!
Now we are on SS and can no longer afford this stupidity. Now, I am bracing myself to call my sponsor to tell them the good news and to try to get them to check the internet. And I really love my sponsor, too.
Notice how EASY it would be to IMPLY from the photographs that the assets shown were ALL purchased because of money made in AMWAY.
Could it be possible that some of these "successes" actually purchased their large properties/luxury motor vehicles with money from jobs they had BEFORE they entered AMWAY?
Also notice, there is NO COMMENT or NARRATIVE next to the photographs which state "Mr & Mrs Success standing outside the house paid for by profit made in AMWAY".
One photo in particular which really annoyed us showed a large group of people and the "successful" distributor in a racing boat in the Whitsundays (a group of Islands in Australia) - we happen to know that this boat is only a HIRE BOAT. But of course, the photograph doesn't say "here is Mr Success in a SPEED BOAT HE HIRED & SHARED THE HIRE COST WITH THE 10 OTHER PEOPLE IN THE BOAT". This photo, like all of them, are simply left blank so that people might IMPLY that he owns the boat.
Could it also be possible that the "success stories" in the photos are standing next to luxury vehicles or properties owned by OTHER people?
SPECULATION...
Much of this business is spread on speculation and gossip. We were regularly told stories like "a distributor in the U.S.A who lived in a town with only 200 people, and they went Direct in ONLY 52 days, so you can too!"
or how about this one:!! An Australian woman who was a single parent, who had no front teeth, 5 children and no driver's licence who went Direct in 3 months (yes, we were actually told this story by our upline) but of course, there was no evidence presented so how is it possible to confirm or deny this?
DELAYING TACTICS
We gave our credit card number (silly us!) to our trustworthy upline to pay for the new monthly order ("HSD" system). I asked our upline to hold the order(as we were close to our credit limit of $500) and would prefer for payments to be deducted from our bank account directly.
Our upline gave us a form for direct debit which we decided not to complete as we wanted to watch our budget more closely by ordering weekly instead.
My credit card company wrote to me & asked if I wished to increase my limit, to which I replied positively. In the following couple of weeks, a large order turned up at our door - it was our HSD order which had been pushed through now that there was a higher credit limit on the card. I asked our upline for a copy of our HSD order, and for another month, he kept confirming that he would arrange a copy for us. Of course, he managed to delay until the next month's HSD order was about to be processed. I counter-acted this by cancelling my credit card, and would you believe, we still don't have a copy of that order form.
I told our upline to cancel any present and standing Tape and Book orders, and they said to confirm it in writing to our upline Emeralds (which we did).
Some four weeks later, we were asked to pay for ANOTHER two tapes, as "they are ordered two weeks in advance". Isn't it interesting how the rules always change??
When my upline asks me for a cheque for the tapes, I'll mention how he owes me - I'm exercising my right for a 90 day money back refund on the three tapes we previously paid for just before we cancelled, and ALSO FOR THE TWO MONTHS WORTH OF 3% BONUS CHEQUES THAT WE HAVE NEVER RECEIVED.
Good luck with your endeavours. Thanks for enlightening everyone.
Great web site...thanks. Now I know why my upline stongly, almost violently, advised us against visiting any web sites other the the official Amway site. Ironically, he helped us get set up on the internet a few months ago. Hmm.....I bet he's kicking himself. That's ok....I've wanted to kick him many times over the past 4 years. That's right...almost 4 years. My husband and I were "core"...we attended everything! We were on Amvox. We were on standing order tape...and bought about 5-10 extra tapes per month. One of the fastest growing groups in my ex-system leaders organization (Crown ***....which I know you'll delete if you publish this) says that buying one tape a week is minimum wage...you have to but 5 tapes a week if you want to get wealthy! Now I know why. I can honestly say I had NO CLUE about the money to be made from books, tapes and functions. I really thought we just hadn't done enough work, weren't "speaking" right, hadn't listened to enough tapes, hadn't read enough, hadn't associated enough, even hadn't retailed enough products. (I have about 15 customers that buy repeatedly from me....this is enough reason for me to remain a distributor. Now that I don't have the expense of all of the motivational crap, I'll make a profit.)
My husband didn't know about the money to be made off of the "tools" either. Boy, our upline must be sooooooo ticked off knowing we're off SOT and not buying any more tools.
We did EVERYTHING "right". And we have never made a true profit since we've been in.
I got so fed up with this "system for success" (who's success?) that I finally said ENOUGH!! I want my life back. I gave up time with my family and friends, vacations, skiing (my passion), time wiht my husband, sex....who has the energy when you only get 4-5 hours of sleep a night (I can just hear all the Mom's with babies laughing), peace of mind, spiritual pursuits, my favorite perfumes (because they weren't "positive"...I never threw them out...HA), novels (they're "evil"), Sunday night dinner and a movie with my husband, daily trips to go hiking (gotta be back to go to product pick up or a meeting or to STP or to "counsel" eith upline at 10:00 at night), essentially all of my free time was devoted to this venture....not because I wanted it that way, but because I wanted to succeed.
I have since determined that success is doing what is right for you. It really isn't about dollars. (I still like dollars, though) It always struck me as so weird...they say this is the best business in the world, yet why is it cloaked in so much mystery? Why is at least 30 minutes of a hotel "Open Meeting" spent defending Amway before the word is ever mentioned?
Anyway, I was "encouraged" to take all of my problems upline...financial (we heve none), job, personal, marital, health, etc. If you didn't, you weren't a "team" player...and it was drummed in over and over again that "people who aren't team players don't go direct, and people who associate with non-team players don't go direct." Well, we were team players and got as far as 1500 PV....2.5 years ago.
I got so depressed and overwhelmed....I got into therapy with a wonderful, caring professional (thank God and my Mom) and was on anti depressants for a while. Yes, there were other issues at hand, but 80% of our time was spent discussing Amway. I came to hate the people in my upline and in my downline...yet I couldn't admit that...you are supposed to "love" everybody.
Fortunately, I am very resilient and no permanent harm was done. But I think I'll need to keep visiting sites like this to help erase the old "tapes" in my head.
One note: My sponsors had a baby a while ago. The baby was born with a very serious birth defect...was rushed to ICU as soon as she was born. A week later, the baby an Mom were home (with their other kids) and he left them to go to a weekend function. (That wouldn't have been our choice...but hey, I guess we would have been dissed if my husband didn't go). This "man" got so much edification and recognition I wanted to puke right then and there!!! He was called up in front of everybody to do a special talk on "committment"...to whom? My husband said he would never leave me at a time like that. I said,"Good, otherwise you'd find your bags on the porch with the locks changed!" That incident was the straw that broke the camels back...I finally realized that the values I was being exposed to were absolutely wrong for me.
Thanks for the forum so I can express myself. People at work (no, not that [sarcasm]) keep telling me how much happier I am. I just smile and say, "You got that right".
Part II
(My husband) and I went to a party (non-Amway) around Christmastime. We knew only the couple who invited us. (A friend from his work). We both had a blast....met new people just because we wanted to...not because we wanted to prospect them.
The next day (my husband) asked me if I found it refreshing to be around other people (people not in "the business")...I exclaimed a resounding YES. And that is when I started to realize how warped and onesided my life had become.
I'm enjoying reading all of the sites I've found so far....and now I'll check out your sites/links. Thanks for the book tips....I'll be sure to check them out. I need some healing time after being around these folks for the past 4 years. I'm sure I'll be back with more stories...as long as you don't mind hearing them.
BTW, I found out that really do like being a nurse. And I joined a Jazzercise class last week....lots of fun and a great workout....I'm looking foward to dropping the 30 pounds I gained over the past 4 years.
What did your family say to you after you got out? My mom was very supportive and helped me make the best decision for myself. My mother in law said she's glad we finally came to our senses. (love her honesty).
I forget....do you guys have any children? If so, how did you do it with kids? And how are they today?
Part III
I still get so mad when I think about Amway. My sponsor called this morning and I didn't even want to talk to her. ...screened the call anyway. It's funny, for 4 years I bought nothing but Amway products ( and catalog items) fatihfully every week. I have the signed paper work from my upline PSDD to go on warehouse....but I'm not even interested in doing that. I still order...but only when I really need something....definetly not weekly. I've been getting dropshipped...I just call in and give my sponsors ADA number...with her ok of course. I don't even feel guilty when I don't order.
Youknow, about 3 times a year, we would get a call from someone upline telling us that our PSDD was about 1000 PV short of qualifying that month and is there anything we need to order to help her go over? (Do you think this motivates us? NOT). We just got a call like that last week....on Amvox from our upline diamond. Did she call any other time to see how we were doing? Nope. But she told us how much she loves us. Hollow words and empty promises. If they really liked us and were our friends, it wouldn't matter whether or not we were active or how much PV we did that month.
They always told us to build our upline's team and in turn our downline would do the same for us. This never sat well with me. I guess I'm not that kind of team player after all.
Are you still a distributor? And do you still order? I almost don't want my upline to make any money off of me...but I still like some of the products (love the coffee...having a cup right now!)
(My husband)and I are still looking for a business... but we're taking it slow. I asked him tonight at dinner if he's happier now...he said "much". One of the gals at work is in Meloluca (sp) and she used to be in Amway. (She's one of my customers). But now she knows I'm out and wants to gove me a video to review.....I'll keep telling her no. I'm not interested in MLM at all.
I really resesnted when the tapes and speakers would say "If you can't make it at this, you'll never make it in anything." How do they know? Do they have a crystal ball? I know that they just say that to scare you away from leaving.
My mom is a recovered alcoholic...she said the AA meetings are very similar...."you'll drink if you don't come to meetings", etc. She was very helpful ...and still is. (Never thought I'd say THAT). Oh, and she's still sober (yay!)
Anyway, I'm realizing that there are other ways of making money that are more personally rewarding. And I'm enjoying the time I have for myself now. I don't know how people with children build Amway like they teach in the Britt System....working all day and then out everynight with your husband. >From the get go, I was always somewhat uncomfortable about the way things were done and taught. I never got into the submission deal...NOT a part of my personality. (My husband didn't like it when I was trying to be like that anyway). I keep asking myself, How could I have been so dumb? How could I have been so blind? And why did I let myself become so wrapped up in these peolple and their awful lifestyle?
I was at the mall today...was looking at all the people there...and was SO relieved not to have to contact someone. How bizarre, anyway. Blood sucker is an appropriate term. I never really liked myself when I was out contacting....way too stressful for me. Now I like meeting people just because I think they're neat.
Hello,Diana & Joe from cyberspace!I was deeply moved and saddened by your story,(it is soooo similar to ours.)I have always "thought big" and dreamed of financial security but,alas,its not meant to be.My wife and I have tried many different ways to make money,we like you,want the best for our kids & family.Well, here's our story.After years of failure in one business after another, and financial loss after another.We tried "the trend of the future!!"(MLM of course)We started with "Excel telecom" (heard of that one?)They are a long distance outfit.Of course,at the time, my wife & I were a little younger & MUCH more naive,and our sponsor conviently forgot to mention what a cutthroat business long-distance is.Needless to say,after 1 year of work,we got our commision check(drum roll please)... $12.50!!!!!!! WOW!!Can we retire yet???These people,the companies as well as the distributors,are the lowest form of life on the planet.They would look right at Jesus Christ and tell him a lie to his face.And you're right,the minute you leave "the business",thats the very minute that your "friendship" with them is over.I remember our sponsor in our last program,(thankfully, the LAST program)was the lyingest bastard on this planet.I sent him money Western Union to send tapes to "opportunity seekers" from mailing lists which he, and "his team", which we later found was his wife.Anyway,the sorry bastard gambled up the money.How do I know?One of his partners called and informed me.They were pretty good about making up for his crap.Anyway,after a year of that,(and $20,000 in debt) we finally have awakened to the fact that we'll always be broke,our kids will never go to college,and we'll never own our own home,but hey,we have each other,and God.Thats one thing in particular that burns me up with Amway,its all done under the guise of religion!Ha!What a laugh.Yeager and company are slime.He used to be a BEER salesman,but yet he's a good Christian!Yeah right.Bill Britt,thats another one.This guy makes trillions off tapes.He has stated in court that it is far more lucrative selling tapes than Amway products(Duh!)No kidding.He should know.I don't know how these people sleep at night.By the way,we've never been in Amway,(thank God),thats one thing I am grateful for in my life.Well,keep the faith my friends.Isn't the Internet great?It gives ordinary people like us power to help spread the word about this "MLM" curse.I need to start my own website, like you folks,to help spread the truth so that maybe others won't have to go through anything like we have.I am glad to hear you made it through your nightmare,and I can tell, you have managed to keep a sense of humor about your experiences.We've tried to do that too,but its hard.We've blown so much money on this garbage.I hope we make it through our nightmare and come out as fortunte as you.Good luck & Godspeed.
Thanks for the fine article on the 10 big lies. I'm gathering all the information I can due to the fact I'm losing my closest friend to Equinox. Most of the material I find is on Amway, (Scamway), but it all sounds about the same to me. These people make me sick. My buddy is losing his money, his friends, and his mind. These seminars they attend, (Equinox calls them Building Blocks), seem in every way like a cult meeting with Bill Gouldd being the leader. They all hope and pray that this con will show up at their seminar. My friend has never been one to dance at a party or wedding, (too shy - too reserved - too cool), but he goes to these things and dances like an idiot at 8:00 on Sunday morning, (sober!). What the hell do they put in this "Essence of Life" crap that they sell? Maybe he's not sober! They sit in folding chairs for hours at a time, highly discouraged from getting up for any reason, (even using the restroom!). I'm watching a man going to hell fast and I have to think of something to stop him! I know their will be tragic results when he finds out he's broke and has no friends left.
While I agree that there are some MLM companys out there that profit from the failures of people and leave a trail of destruction, the concept of Network Marketing is a good one, as is the distribution of a good product at a reasonable price. I would tell friends and family if I saw a great movie, so why not tell them if you are using a good product? Wether we like it or not, Network Marketing is here to stay. It is a Multli billion dollar industry, but have no fear, " The times, they are a' changing". as the song goes. It is time for MLM to " roll over and die" to make way for new idea's and new Entrepreneurs that no longer are in it for themselves, but for everyone, and who WILL help you succeed if you show determination and perserverance, because for the first time, it is in their best interest TO DO SO! No longer does the guy at the top of the so called Pyramid make all the money!.
It is still not possible to get rich quick over night in Network Marketing, and it never will be, so run in the oposite direction if anyone tries to tell you that, but with the right company behind you, that honestly cares about it's distributors, that has all the components necessary for it's own success, it is possible to succeed yourself. The requirements of the company I have been with for the last two years are reasonable and doable for the average person, part-time. It flat out works, and for the last five years has gone from strengh to strengh. I do not have to mass recruit a ton of people, and I am not a "warehouse" for a ton of product neither am I a selling/ recruiting machine to anyone who fogs up a mirror, because I do not need to be anymore. I just wanted to point out, in case you did not know it, that there is a company out there in Network Marketing land that is different, wants to eliminate scams as much as you do, and it's about time!!
Thanks for being a "Watch dog"! This is my opinion, feel free to print it, and comment if you would like to.
I had my first and only meeting with an Amway representative yesterday. From the beginning of our meeting I was a bit skeptical, and after going through your pages I am thankful that I did not commit more than one hour of my time and NO $$$. Your site is very helpful and informative... keep up the great work!!!
I appreciate the information on your site. It only confirmed what my gut & heart were telling me about joining Amway. I had been talking to a couple of "very nice people" who wanted to sponsor me in the "businees". They gave me all kinds of books and tapes. The books I read were inspriational...the tapes I didn't listen to at all. I even went to a couple of "presentations" at their home. What I found were sales pitches intended to amplify any fear about one's financial future and security. I personally have learned that fear-based decisions are are not the best decisions. I had seriously considered joining at one time but I never felt 100% confident in that choice. I always had reservations but could never put my finger on why. Obviouly I was receiving only ONE side of the story. I know now that I am making the right decision with my heart,and not with fear, to set my goals and improve my life without the help of the Amway "business plan".
Thanks for providing me with the other half of the story so I could make an informed decision.
Warm Regards,
In response to the statement comparing Amway and the Titanic, what can I say????? They corrupted my brain while I was living in England. About 10 grand out of pocket. Made around 300 bucks.
A newsletter is needed to keep all interested informed. There must be thousands of people out there who would want in. You can start with me!!
i was recently approached with a tape about an exciting new business opportunity. sounded good. it was about the rexall-sundown corp. have you heard the tape and what do you know about how it compares to amway and other mlm businesses.
My name is ***. My husband and I got into the Amway business in September 1994. He was the excited one. I didn't want to have anything to do with it. We had gone through a rough patch in our marriage and had just started putting our lives together again. Well, he was swayed by the Upline Direct, whom I thought was a total fake. For the past 3 1/2 years he has done everything they told him to do. At one point, he was gone every night of the week. We spent no time together. I was told I needed to go out with him every night. Well, we have 3 children whom I didn't want to leave every night. We drifted so far apart that our marriage really started to dissolve. We basically led our own lives. I was very resentful of him being gone every night. I ended up almost having an affair because I felt so neglected.
(Recently), I was laid off from my $30,000.00 a year job. Do you think anyone in our upline cared? What they said was that "Now you have even more reason to do the business!" What a joke. We are so far in debt that there is no way we could handle things without my job. Just recently he decided that instead of putting energy into the Amway business, we needed to spend more time getting out of debt. We also found out about the lawsuit filed by Joe Morrison, who is in our upline. That pretty much confirmed what we have been discovering over the past few months. We told our upline to take us off Standing Order Tapes. Well, guess what happened? We had a meeting last week to go over Direct Fulfillment (distributors ordering RDC products directly from Amway) and the Direct did not even speak to me. She didn't even acknowledge that I was in the room. That further showed me that no one gives a damn about you, only whether they make money for themselves.
There is someone in our upline who plainly states that he is greedy and proud of it. Our group is dissolving and I couldn't be happier. That is what I have wanted since my husband started in this business. We have gone back to our original plan of paying off our debt, buying land and building a house, and eventually buying a small hardware or grocery store. People in the Amway business say that if you go diamond that you will be your kids heroes. Our kids, who are 16, 15, and 11 all say they are glad we are getting out of Amway. They tell my husband that they enjoy his being home every night. We could not be happier being out of the business.
This page was last updated on Sep-16-98