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	The following posts have been reprinted in their entirety from posts e-mailed by readers of this website, except that headers, names and locations have been removed. These posts express the opinions and experiences of their authors, and this site publisher makes no representations about them in any way whatsoever. Re: Excel Hello. I'd like to see some info on Excel communications. I myself have done alot of research on MLMs. I hate them. Excel is the clesest thing I've seen to a legitimate MLM. They sell a product people actually use, long-distance service at competitive rates and reliable service. They do ask for $250 or so up front and they do have high pressure techniques, so its still an MLM. What's your take on it? Re: Excel Thanks for taking time to reply. I've been reviewing the newsgroups and found some interesting comments. Also, several state and federal regulatory sites had information on slamming citations and fines against Excel. I can send URLs if you wish. Please clarify one of your comments: >I do believe that the compensation system is set up to >keep the majority of distributors from qualifying for bonuses. Is this positive or negative? I suspect that most Excel distributors make their money through bonuses by signing up other distributors. Even bigger money is to be made selling motiviational books and videos and making presentations. Otherwise, their distributors would only be making pennies from their cut of phone service revenues from the customers they signed up. Thanks again for your time and attention.
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Re: MLM

I am so glad I read your story and many similar ones. I have been in the business world for 10 years now and consider myself to be fairly intelligent. I work for a great company, but I am always on the lookout for something better. Today I received a call from a "friend" that I have not talked to in about 8 months. The first thing out of his month was how he had been working for the great company for the past 5 months. We talked for an hour and the whole time I was asking him "what does your company do?", "where do there revenues come from?", "what is their target market, their niche?". Would you believe that he could not answer these simple questions?!? The only thing he kept saying is that I would have to come in the office and sit through a 45 minute presentation of the company and that will answer all of my questions. He advised me that it is an excellent company where everyone is making lots of money . He talked about the fancy cars, million dollar houses and expensive clothing everyone could easily afford simply by working for the company. Sounded real good, however to good to be true. After I got the name of the company (Equinox) I told him I will do some research to get an idea of what the company is all about. Glad I did, all of the stories I have found on the internet are an excellent referral on the company. It lets people like myself and others realize that nothing that sounds that good really exists. I can't wait to call him tomorrow and advise him what kind of company he works for and whether he is aware of the legality his company is involved in. Thank you for your story and I hope things are looking better for you and your family.

Sincerely,

Thanks again for responding. I agree with you on one thing. It is a big waste of time to continue to communicate this further. Obviously we have two differing opinions. I respect your decision to not participate in the Amway business. There is nothing wrong with that. Nor is there anything wrong with me pursuing additional income in a government approved business.

I was thinking about some things after I sent you that last email and wanted to ask you before terminating any further correspondesnce. When you were active, how many plans did you show per week (was your activity level that of a business owner)? Were you showing 5 to 6 plans per week? Did you change at all by being around people who wanted something better than what they already had? Were you a good mentor to those that you sponsored (accountable, doing what you say,...)? I am not tring to intimidate you, but many people who have been "former Amway Distributors" did not do any work. Their Monday night football was more important, etc....It was a part-time hobby and they went on to say: "It doesn't work!"

I wish you all the best in life that God could bless you with. I pray that it exceeds your expectations and hopefully someday you will respect people for their desires rather than their vehicle. I don't judge you for your decisions...Don't judge me or others. You have no authority!

Enjoy spending $$$ on this web site. I hope it helps you with your issues and others who feel the same way. :-)

Hi. My name is ** and I love your site....it has really opened my eyes and answered some nagging questions I've had about the business and myself. This site was mentioned in "All That Glitters Is Not God"......What a book!!!! I first realized something was not exactly right with what I'd been told and reallity when I read "Inside Network Marketing". Just a short history..... I started with Enviro-Tech, spent a lot of money on inventory, then discovered Pre-Paid Legal. Great company, Great service, but deceptive and exagerated business opportunity. More on that if you'd like to discuss it.

I'm currently taking a look at Excel Communications.....I've learned a lot in the last two years and this looks like it may be a better fit for me. I value your insight and perspective......What, if anything, do you know about Excel? Any input you have will be appreciated. Thank You.......

I'm interested in responses to “Post 39” page, mid way down starting with the sentence “Sorry to read about all these less-than-positive experiences.”

I do not often write to anyone on the internet but I must say bravo to you for having the courage to tell it like it is and was. I know of so many people who have been scammed by these type of schemes and simply are so embarrassed, they just pretend it never happened and quietly lick their wounds. If someone asks them, so how is it going in your new endeavor, they just say, I decided to stop. I think fraud and anything of that nature should be exposed, and shouted from the rooftops, to avoid it happening to anyone else. That is why these organisations do so well and are always able to attract new victims, because they count on people`s shame and embarrassement about being conned. The emphasize in the training that if you do not get rich like the other people they say made it, then it was simply your failure, not theirs. They guarantee themselves free pickings for the next batch that way. They will just keep quiet from shame, just like someone who is raped or sexually abused. They think, don`t worry, we won`t be stopped, they won`t want anyone to know it happened to them. Keep up the good work. Don`t let them scare you. Maybe others who have been victimized should join with you for a class action lawsuit! Goodluck

I was very happy to find your website and read about all the hype and misinformation that Quixtar/Amway has been feeding the masses. I just wish I had seen the site before I became one of Quixtar's casualties. I believed that I was buying into a fabulous opportunity to earn incredible amounts of money by way of being an "owner of an Internet mall." There were going to be over 50 well-known stores with respected brand name products and incredible discounts for your "clients" and cash residuals for you, the "IBO." I heard that Nordstrom's was going to be a "partner store" and that the potential earnings through a "duplication effect" were going to be astounding. It was touted as the new way to shop and that if I didn't join the wave, I was going to lose out on incredible sums of money. My husband and I spent a total of $198 to take advantage of this Internet gravy train. $99 for the membership kit, which includes a $45 gift certificate toward your first purchase at the mall (although after hearing 4 different stories from the "customer service dept.", you can only redeem your certificate over the phone for core "Amway" products) and $89 for an INA sales kit (who are these INA people anyway and how are they connected to Amway/Quixtar?) and $10 for an information CD. After it's disastrous start, my husband and I became quickly disenchanted, and after numerous calls to my upline and the illustrious "customer service" at Amway, oh I mean Quixtar, I got fed up with the hype and out and out lies. I called several times to receive my money back. To date they have refunded me $54. I have not cashed the check because of their disclaimer that in my doing so, it relieves Amway of any further obligation to me. In order to receive the rest of my cash, I must return my sales kit, but no one can tell me where to return it to and some reps said that Amway has nothing to do with the kit and that I'm stuck with it. I said I didn't buy the kit from Amway, I bought the kit from my upline through Quixtar. They then said to contact someone at Quixtar, I said I thought I just called the 800# for Quixtar. The cust service rep said "oh you did." Well, then why can't you help me, I asked her. She put me on hold for 5 minutes and told me to mail the kit to some place in Colorado. I wasn't real impressed with her customer service abilities and asked for a letter in writing as to what Amway or Quixtar or whatever name they call themselves wanted me to do so that I may get all my money back. The poor woman really didn't know what to do then, so she put me back on hold. Needless to say, I still have these useless kits and a $45 certificate for Amway stuff that I do not want (and never intended to sell in the first place!!). I just want to get ALL my money back and be done with these people. I would gladly warn anyone who thinks they are buying into some fabulous *E-COMMERCE venture to STAY AWAY from Quixtar. It is nothing but a venture of hype and frustration and a great way to lose your cash and feel like an idiot for doing so. They can take even the most negative statement about their venture and make it sound like an endorsement..It's truly pathetic and the only ones making any cash are the De Vos and Van Andel families.

If you have any suggestions as to how I can get the rest of my cash, I'd love to hear it. I don't want them to have any of my money! Please e-mail me with any suggestions on what to do from here. You can e-mail me at ***.

Thanks for your time and allowing me to vent my frustrations! Your website has been a catharsis for me! Thanks again.

Thanks for your response....I'll get the book and let you know how things work out. I did go to an Excel Op meeting tonight. I was pleased with what I saw and heard. No hype or exagerated claims, just straight business.(They don't call it "selling the service"....It's " gathering customers") I can live with that, though...I know what they mean. Talk to you later...

I have checked your book corner,I'm probably books biggest fan, and I found it very stimulating.I have learned one thing though about folks out there.As a newbie,I hope I can stop using that tag one day,I found many many people who will give you a hand about anything.Web design,programming,even something as simple as deframentation,someone was there to help.I'm still in shock that the web community as a whole are so willing to lend a hand and even their expertise.The only reward 99.9% of them asked was to return the deed someday.I've been applying that as much as possible and when someone asks,it's amazing to see the responses.

At first I was put off by entering my address anywhere as the next day I would get 500 Get Rich Scheme Ideas. If I knew how to put 1 million dollars into a bank next week,I think I would just do it and shut up.But to be paid as they suggest for doing nothing or for supplying the names in my address book was appaling.And they seem to get away with it too.Unreal!!I have joined some of the top MLM site on the web and I must say their approach is so professional.I get only the info. I asked for and my name has never been added to any mail lists.Pretty professional,I admit.

Gotta go do some housework but I hope to hear from you again and if you ever have any ideas I could use to help me along in my networking endeavors,please pass them along.Good advise is worth a million bucks,Grandma use to say and I believe her.If you are a coffee drinker,please go to this site and pick a flavor http://www2.crosswinds.net/~coffeecafe.It would be my pleasure to some send to you in return for your help.I hope you allow me to do this.

A friend,

Great site!!! When you have the time I would like to know the latest on the quixtar scam. Also I have been curious as to what's been going on with Jeff Probandt latley. And what the fallout was for his revealing web site. You guys keep up the good work.

Thanks,

I have recentlly been approached by someone prospecting for new distributors for Rexall Showcase. Apparantlly this company is soon to open in Canada. Have you any info. regarding this Co.? Are they affiliated with the popular drug store chain? I have heard they trade on NASDAQ. Any info would be greatlly aprieciated. Thank you for providing a place to recieve and exchange " the other side" of what really is a very confusing story.

Your site is very good. I learned about Amway a long time ago.

What do you know about Mary Kay Cosmetics? Are there any good web sites or places to find any good information about Mary Kay? I haven't found much if any negative info about MK on the Internet. I don't even know if Mary Kay counts as a true MLM as you don't buy product from other distributors, just the company.

Thanks for your help and keep up the good work!!

Do you have any information on Melaleuca? I have a good friend - retired teacher with an MA+ - who is very much into believing this is the answer to our retirement doldrums (I am also a retired teacher). She claims the products are cheaper and better - I don't think so! Where can I find some good answers to her brainwashed claims? Thank you,

Recently my friend invited me to a meeting of this brand spanking new interent company that was "going to bury amazon" so he read in time which i later found out was a bullshit self promotion. anyways I walk into this meeting, and I knew, scam, in one way or antoher it was a scam. Not that I'm one to judge a book by its cover but I know computer people when i see them, and I didnt see them. The whole speech was garbage sing up for this do this do that, some crap slide show from where they took "THE DIAMONDs" whatever they are. My friend has been brainwashed, I mean these guys are good, hes buying up all their crap, and sorry but I am pissed. Out do amazon, they are going to have trouble outdoing, little jimmy's Phantom Menace site with one click through banner.

What do I do what do I say to my best friend how the hell do I get him out of this. I've tried to explain to him its not much more then a glorified "pyramid" scam but he just spurts out robotic responses, no ** "you have to realize the power of exponetial growth", i have a strong business plan, with my partners there to support me....... please what do I do, and I think he quit university for this crap, he didn't say that was why, but I think he thought he had a real chance at big bucks, quit school, and now is too afraid to admit he made a big mistake, what do I do.

sorry im pissed off ** "i will not die with a wish"

There are times when you have to step back at look at something a second time or with a more positive point of view. The Information that you have written about Quixtar is partially factual. I too was very disappointed with its opening on September 1. as were many people. However, my Amway/Quixtar business doubled that month. My September check was the biggest I have ever received and this months looks even bigger. I can't even imagine how much it would of been if all 20-million people who tried to get in on opening day had succeeded. I don't know about you but I could deal with that problem every day? Possibly you could do another story about Quixtar and this time you might want to mention that Quixtar is getting between 20 & 30 millions hits each day and is now one of the largest e-commerce sites on the web. You might also want to mention that all of this has been done without one dollar being spent on advertising. You might also mention that the Amway Corporation has created more millionaires in its forty-year history then any other company in history, other then Microsoft and they have never missed sending out a check. How may MLM's can you say that about? Your web site offers a valuable service to people who are looking into an MLM business but you need to tell people the whole truth not just what you want them to believe.

Hello, my name is **. I was 18 years old back in the summer of 1994 when i responded to an ad that looked very appealing to me. Being fresh out of highschool, i looked for another route to making it big than to going seven years or so years in College. I had dang near an infinite amount of energy and was ready to put myself one hundred and ten percent into something that i could believe in and something that would have an oppurtunity to fulfil my financial dreams as well as my familys. Very unfortuanately, i responded to an Equinox ad.

As i walked into the office for the first time, i could not believe how beautiful most of the women were in there, and friendly too! I was charmed by their warmth and positive energy. I met up with the person who had the ad i called on, talked with him on things, saw the program, heard some stories, talked to some of the beautiful women again , and i was on a total high! I was so excited.

Next i heard what i needed to do, what i needed to get, and who i needed to bring. This company cared about the world, this great man who ran it (Bill Goulld), cared about us, he was on a quest to better the world, these people are great, what an awesome company! "Thankyou god for leading me to this! I know now that you want it good for me!" I thought.

If i could have only gone into the future one year ahead then, i would have been able to talk to a 19 year old broken hearted man. A 19 year old man, that since had gotten into equinox, had attempted suicide 3 times just after about 3 months of getting involved into equinox. Everybody was making it in their ( so i thought), except for me. I was really to young to get a loan, i couldnt get product, or go to a training. The 19 year old would have told me, that everyone is going to turn their backs on you, because you arent making it. Those beautiful women arent going to talk to you the same. You have no money, hardly anyone to bring in, you are just hopeless as far as they are concerned. "Quit this company!", he would have told the 18 y.o. guy. "Its not for you". Even with that,he might of been so caught up in it then, that he might not have listened to even himself a year into the future. Why should he? He wont listen to any of his family or friends. He has been programmed not to. Only thing that comes out of his mouth now is, "Bill..........Mr.Goulld is great".

Somehow, in a matter of about a year, i was able to actually come up with, and lose about 3 thousand dollars. Beyond money, much more was lost. Putting your heart totally into something you believe in, then having it trounced on, subconsciously and consciously, will scar you beyond belief. It more than likely will bring you to the point of never putting your heart , fully, into something again. I personally do not recall since, of having the energy for anything , that i did for equinox. I truly cannot get excited about things anymore, not at that level. Women, money, vacations, etc; i cannot get excited about them like i used to. I gave the epitemy of effort and the epitemy of what my heart could give, to building a life around equinox. Then my heart got broken, pounded and pulverised, and i have never been passionate about things, as much as i used to or could be, since.

This company also preached God in it. That also was a driving factor for me. Here i was, with beautiful supporting people around me, fighting for good causes, going to make good money , and fighting for the betterment of man kind, with God behind my back! What more could a person ask for? I guess, all in all, a negative experience here, could turn you off to A: God, B: trusting and believing in beautiful people, who SAY they are out to help good causes, and C: trusting and believing anyone who is or sounds positive and caring about HELPING you achieve your goals in life. This whole experience led to me not want to trust anybody in the slightest. I have never looked at a friendly person the same. These people had their skills down, most of them that is. I never did. I can only compare the experience like this:

If you recieved a hug from an attractive opposite sex for the first time, you would probably like it. It felt warm, if felt good. Next might come a kiss, that is nice. Then would come other things, then other things, etc. Life would have been great. On that level, equinox, was like having your first hug, kiss, foreplay, and passionate love making session, to a incredibly beautiful person, all in a short period of time. Over whelming indeed. Then by the short time you are fully attached, your heart gets ripped in pieces. You gave ALL your love, passion, and energy, only to be screwed heartlessly in the end. You wont ever get that way about anything or anyone again.

I hope equinox goes down sometime in the near future. I never want to see or hear anybody get hurt the way i got hurt.

You seem very bitter. I'm very sorry that you had such a bad experience. To answer your question my check in September was for $1,784.34. That was two dollars short of doubling from the month before. And yes, I sell mostly to consumers. I have a very small downline and I do a great deal of direct selling. Since Quixtar came along I now sign people up as "Members" This is working really well for me. The people are happy with the products and the service (particularly the 'Partner Stores') and I get all the PV's. It's a win-win situation. And, I don't spend all my money on tapes and whatever. I go to one major convention a year, that's it....

Please don't take any of this personally. I enjoy reading the stuff on your web site, we live in a country where everyone can express their own opinion an I respect yours. However, everyone should have the rite to make their own decisions. I know exactly what is going on with Amway/Quixtar and I have found a way to work around the system so it benefits me. (Please don't write a book about that) Anyway, it can work for some people but not everyone. And, it obviously didn't work for you but that doesn't mean it all bad and I'm sure that if you took the time to research almost any Fortune 500 company you could find a story very much like Amway's hidden behind the mirrors.

Good wishes

I'm sorry to hear about your experience. I think you'll probably agree that most of the start-up problems with Quixtar have been recetified. This was not a negative to me, but rather a sign that they are normal. Any company starting something of this size would be delighted to have that many hits the first day, unfortunately, they under-estimated the response. The site is working very well now. I think maybe your anger towards your former upline has caused you to kick Quixtar too soon. They are doing their best to create a web site and have only been up and running 2 months.....I think they deserve a little leeway. As far as what you saw with your former upline, that's too bad. I really don't know if you have enough information and experience with other organizations to gerneralize as you have done. You really ought to narrow your attack to your former organization and the specific problems you have with them. Along the same lines, the few exageraters out there that did make unsupported claims before the launch (which, like you, I don't agree with) should not be considered all of Quixtar/Amway. There are so many that are not exagerating and doing what they can to convey a complete message for people to evaluate. All businesses are full of stories of people that have failed for whatever reason. In some cases, the business itself is to blame, in other cases, the support. Amway/Quixtar has many successes (truly making $ from product movement) and this proves the business works. How people implement what they learn, the attitude that they carry, and the amount of action taken will ultimately dictate someones success in anything.

Sincerely,

Part II

Hi, regarding other organizations, since you have experience with others as well, are your comments the case with all of them? Based on your survey. Are the generalizations you've made a fair representation of all organizations?

Regarding proof of making money, I made a profit last month (month 1 of Quixtar with all its problems). I didn't make a cent on tools, just on product flow in the organization. My profit was up to me - the more organizations I helped develop, the more profit. If someone doesn't make profit from this business, there's only one person to blame, themselves. Where's your proof that people aren't making money? How many people that start businesses in the US in the first 5 years make money? Over 75% of them fold. And when they fold, they have a heavy debt to pay. If someone gives this business a go and they don't make anything, how is that different than other businesses? The one difference I can point out is you don't lose a tremendous amout of money like many traditional businesses. You mentioned the cost of baby sitters and functions, isn't that a business expense and therefore risk to you. Were there gurantees made about your attendance and subsequent profit? My counselor in college said that if I didn't attend class and read the books, etc I probably wouldn't succeed. How is that different than tapes, books, and seminars? By the way, people made money when I bought the books in school. Regrading quitters (a topic in your story) if someone quits my group, that's their decision. I don't let that stop me from creating a business that I believe in. Sure its disappointing, but there are others that like this business and won't quit - people like me I guess. If I got hung up on quitters I would spiral down with them.

How many exagerated about Quixtar? Misrepresentations are not good and I don't think that's good business. But are all of us ("they" in your web-site) deceiving people? I believe the majority of IBO's care about people and want to see them succeed. You make us out like a bunch of scam artist trying to pull a fast one on people. That does not reflect the majority and it does not represent me. If I had a bad boss at IBM, would I create a web site that says "The Truth about IBM! It Sucks.". If I had to vent the situation to others, I would try to narrow the topic to "The Truth about Joe Blow! He sucked as a manager.".

Finally, I do think you have helped me become aware of errors some will make in trying to build this business. That awareness will help us build a stronger team.

The best to you...

I can't believe you put this much effort into whining! * Most small businesses fail and so did you. * That's ok, but whining about it isn't. * If you had learned from your mistakes, you would have trimmed your expenses and put your time into building your business.

Counseling with your "active" upline. * Might have kept you more honest with your independant business effort. * There is no way you can say you tried everything to succeed or you would have.

Your wordy & emotional rambling should be reduced to a set of bulleted points. * That way the reader can find the facts as you see them, rather than having to dig though emotional testimony.

I wish you well and a speedy recovery. Walt

Ps. Is this web site your proud legacy for your children to maintain or have you moved on in life?

I was with Equinox for 3 months, it was a total disaster. I got tired of there "answers" to my questions. I would love to get some of my money back for the "trainings" I went to and join in some of the law suits against them.

Any suggestions?

I've never known so many liars. I have no doubt that Bill Gouldd is like a cult leader who needs to be stopped!

To whom it my concern:

Well, we are one of the many who were taken in by Equinox! We regret the fact that we did not go with our first impression, to say no. We were taken for 2500.00 in products and then 3200.00 in cash. It was given to our upline for more products and never seen again. But our questions to you are: How can we and are we allowed to file suit against Equinox? Without any more money being taken from our pockets? Can we return this unused/worthless merchandise?

I don't know if you have a clue to these questions but either way try and get back to me as soon as you can. We only have access to a computer for a few more weeks, it will be shut off for we cannot afford to have it running much longer.

Thank you, 

 

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