The following posts have been reprinted in their entirety from posts e-mailed by readers of this website, except that headers, names and locations have been removed. These posts express the opinions and experiences of their authors, and this site publisher makes no representations about them in any way whatsoever.

Read the book "Soap Opera" by Alecia Swasy, a Wall Street Journal reporter. You'll get a little better picture of P&G.

No wonders Quixtar's pricing is somewhat decent, they're marking up the shipping a minimum of 400%.

We had an order that was shipped via UPS, it was 16#'s. According to our zone on the UPS shipping charge chart it should have come to $4.99, instead they charged $14.50. This was for a replacement order that they originally shipped via the USPS on 16 Nov 99 that we to this date have not received 16 Dec 99.

They haven't realized that they are not paying the shipping, we the client, member or sucker IBO are. We have a right to decide how we want our items shipped.

Better yet, where is Eddie Bauer, QVC, Spiegel, E-Toys like every other IBO is touting to be a partner or a future partner.

According to Eddie Bauer, they have no intention of getting involved with Quixtar.

Just out of curiosity, we just had a presentation at our home from someone marketing "Skybiz 2000" and it frankly reaked of being a MLM scam. It looks like Amway sells the Internet (instead of household products).

Have you heard anything about this group? We have not found a lot on the net. There are a few postings debunking it, but we would like to hear from someone in the know.

Hi, I just have a question if you don't mind. Amway Malaysia is a public listed company, does that include what you mentioned in the AAP?

Regards.

Hi! Just like a few other people I am requesting info on Melaleuca. I've been all over the web looking for bad stuff and have been unsuccessful. I actually tripped over M. while researching Quixtar. I've written the Better Business Bureau in Idaho Falls where they are located, contacted the Idaho Attorney General, contacted the local Idaho Falls newspapers,etc...looking for negative stuff but...nothing. Can you direct me to any other anti-Melaleuca sites besides Wally Butler's?

Thanks

I am a victim of Equinox. I read this website as well as others and noticed that it deals mainly with Bill Gouldd. However, it DOES NOT address the legal responbility of the top producers (e.g., Laurie Rubidge, Oscar Alcoser, Philip Townsend, Michael Heyl). I recommend to the current representatives as well as victims of Equinox to go to the District Attorney and Fraud Units in their City or Community and report these top producers for their fraudelent actions. They need to serve time in prison for their criminal actions.

Yeah, you're right, Quixtar didn't blow the doors off on day one. It could have -- if they'd had their technical act together. But the site works very well now--it's easy to get around, find stuff, place orders, shop at the partner stores, and orders are fulfilled quickly and accurately. And the selection is good too -- all the usual Amway products and a vast selection at the partner stores, which are rapidly rising in number toward 100. As for prices, the partner stores can't charge any higher prices to Quixtar IBOs and members than they do to people who surf directly to the site -- that's part of the contract with Quixtar and it wouldn't make sense anyway to charge Quixtar people extra because we all can surf directly to the site and price-compare. In fact, I did that with about half the partner stores and found that in no case do they charge more if you come through Quixtar. Now, by going through Quixtar to the partner stores you get points or the frequent-flier-mile-like credits good for free merchandise. So, going through Quixtar to OfficeMax.com and every other partner store is ALWAYS a better deal than going straight to OfficeMax.com or the other partner stores without going through Quixtar.

Prices on the site -- well, that's the age-old, never-ending debate between people who think the products are worth the price and those that don,'t and I'm not going to get into it here. I just tell my members, if you like the stuff and the prices, great, and if you don't, there's a money-back guarantee that covers shipping... and the partner stores always have low prices, so you can't lose.

By the way, that review of the site and my opinions of the site are not from a Web and e-commerce newbie. I was online working and doing business before Netscape existed and have shopped at at least 25 different e-commerce sites, so I know whether a site is easy to use or not. Quixtar could be improved with functions it doesn't have (like the "buy later" feature of Amazon, and the feature many sites have to remember your credit card number if you choose, so you can one-click purchase). And I hope they add things like a single unified catalog of available merchandise at all of the partner stores and the Quixtar site itself, which I believe they will in time. Gift-wrapping, e-cards and other features would be nice and I expect they'll add them over time.

My main argument is with your dollar-per-IBO calculation. You base it on several assumptions:

1. Every IBO has a computer. But they don't -- half of my organization doesn't have a computer and have continued placing their orders for Amway products the old-fashioned way, through the toll-free number. Their volume is not counted as part of Quixtar's volume -- and won't until they get a computer and shop online. Thankfully, web-tv costs only $150 so many of them are heading in that direction.

2. Every IBO bought something. Obviously that isn't true. I placed no orders on Quixtar until late September, primarily because I didn't need anything until then. Since then, however, I have placed 8 different orders on Quixtar, and several at partner stores, getting all my Christmas shopping done. (I bought every gift for every person on my list via Quixtar and its partner stores. It took me about 2 hours.)

If there are 1 million Quixtar IBOs in North America, and if they shift $300 worth of their monthly purchasing from Amway to Quixtar and from the mall to Quixtar, the site will be a $3.6 billion e-commerce business. With the much-broader selection, $300 a month is easy -- virtually every middle class household in the nation spends that much a month on stuff that can be bought via Quixtar and its partner stores.

If each IBo just spends $150, all they need is to register 3 members spending $50, and the site will still be as huge.

Will Quixtar get there? Who knows... All I know is that in my group, the broader selection of Quixtar and the ease of using it resulted in a surge in total group volume in October of 50 percent, and November 75 percent over July and August. (September data is worthless -- the site was difficult to use and some people put off purchases to October. So really only the November data is very useful. I expect that with the holiday shopping season combined with growing awareness in my group of the truly vast selection Quixtar and its partner stores offer, total volume in December will be incredible and to maintain momentum beyond that. By the way, I haven't put very many people in my group recently because I've been swamped at work and haven't taken the time to show the plan much, so my volume data is the equivalent of "same store sales" -- that is, it is volume produced by the exact same group of IBOs

HEY LOSER...YOU MUST OWN A RETAIL OUTLET AND AM AFRAID OF THE FUTURE!!!

Hi,

I enjoy reading the stuff on the site but I would suggest hat there is no need trying to present nonsensical/ridiculou argument for every single event.

I sounds unintelligent to say that the main reason the Amway owners want to buy back the AAP and AJL is so that they can't report their earning to the public. It will be interesting to understand the reason why those two arms of Amway are publicly owned and not others, and see if their are fundamental changes in the requirements from these countries for the company to operate. If the company was forced to be public to operate there and now the laws are different, I believe it will be inevitable that they would want to own them 100% if the laws now allow them.

Also, being publicly owned is never a good news for their distributors for these few (among many other) reasons: 1. A hostile takeover can occur at any time and their entire business plan changed to the benefit of only the shareholders. 2. The MLM structure can never be guaranteed as the search for more revenue can drive them to start selling in stores - thereby competing with the distributors. 3. Major proactive policies and/or policy changes to address business concerns will take ages and may never take off as share holders will have to met before any decisions are made.

Simply put, "if I have the money to operate my business on my own and take it to any level I wish, there will be no need for me to invite millions of people to contribute money and own part of my business." The only reason (apart from govt forced moves) to go public is to generate capital for operations and expansion.

I enjoy reading your articles, but make it look more realistic and not puerile.

The last time I wrote to you (I'm on Page 41 of your e-mail posts). My husband and I were quite inactive. Since that time we have gotten off of voicemail, have canceled our Amway Visa and through the renewal form in the trash (YEAH!!!!).

I need help. I could not remember which site compared Amway products to the stuff in the stores. I have been so used to the Amway products for over 7 years, that I don't know what to replace "Brand A" products with from "Brand X". I have tried finding a Consumer Report type of site. I just want to know what are good products now to use. I know that you can relate.

I have been reading you recent posts on your site. I just shake my head at some of the people (as I know you do too!). I was probably in the same boat with them a few years back. I would have done anything for my UPLINE - even support them when I didn't feel that it was totally right.

Keep up the good work Ruth, if you "save" one person from doing something that is not right, then you have made a difference.

Thanks,

Thank you for this opportunity to ask for some legit answers. I am currently considering joining I T I (international teambuilders ). Have you heard anything either good or bad about this company. I've been burned before-Market America--- Destiny Telcom.--- HealthTrim. That is why I'm concerned.

A piece of good news. I am a rep for AmeriPlan. A dental/drug/vision discount plan. I joined 18 mos. ago and am still getting residual checks for work I did over a year ago. I actually became inactive because the dentists in my area were not responsive to the plan. In the Lancaster area you have to wait 3 to 6 months for a scheduled visit to the dentist. They have it so good here that they do not have to offer discounts. This was the only company that I aligned myself with that actually held up their end of the deal. You may contact me at ** Thanks

I had originally signed up as a IBO about a year ago. I had a close friend approach me in Miami, Florida. I had some reservations, and initially said no, but later "the dream" part of the pitch began to cause me to have second thoughts. I tried everything in talking to people, but as soon as I said AMWAY, everyone, and I mean everyone was turned off. Some people who I had even had a good relationship with started treating me differently when they saw me coming. Normally, they would stop and talk, and now they just kept on going. I thought to myself when this happened, they just don't understand what they are missing, they're blind to the opportunity. Needless to say, I did not sale them. My upline expected me to drive to Ft. Lauderdale (45 minute drive) to attend the meetings. Just refused to do it. Now I' ve moved to Norfolk, VA and have renewed contact with my upline (he lives in Norfolk). He called me even after I hadn't produced a thing with any purchases or sign-ups. Took me to a meeting with a guy named "Billy" as guest speaker. Talked about how he had been a teacher in Norfolk, VA had started the "business" in 85 and now was Diamond. I looked around the room and saw a mix of people, some well dressed, some in very cheap J.C. Penney or SEARS clothing that was worn/unkempt. Yea, there were some funny stories, but in the long run, they did'nt talk about the products, or the competetive wholesale prices in specifics, they talked about the "dream". And now that I think about it, my upline continuously talks about the "dream", and about the importance of getting a picture of your dream house, car, etc. put it in your wallet, your refrigerator, and let that drive your train.

You know, I am a graduate from a decent University, and have an M.S. as well. Have been thinking that I would make a great lawyer, but every time I bring up going to Law School with these guys, they say it's a waste. It would seem that the more I think about it, the more this is about mind control.

My question to you is this. Is this truly bullshit? It sure does seem so. My reading of the material on anti-AMWAY thus far seems to tell me that all the $$$ is in the educational materials. I'm at a cross roads. Up until about 2 hours ago, I had thought I was going to make this my life's ambition in order to achieve financial independence. Now, I''m not so sure. I make 60K a year, and my wife makes 24K. We have three children, have just paid cash for a new car, and we are getting ready to buy a new home this summer. My gut now tells me I don't need this. Personally, I think the AMWAY system is beauracratic. The website of QUIXTAR is compartmentalized, with little ability to shop around like other well constructed websites. My upline also promised that stocks would be offered, but that has not happened. When I asked, he gave some excuse, but I can't recall it. Seems to me they want to keep the results confidential as opposed to released as in a Public Company. I know this is a long one, but I find it amazing that a business as AMWAY has existed so long by bullshitting everybody. Any comments of note appreciated.

ok, i read your page....how could any diamond run 6 groups below him each doing 7500 pv or more,and not make a lot of money? Did you count his personal spending as a business expense? I understand that the Emeralds and above profit from the tapes. That is a great goal to reach. I am glad they don't let the complainers make tapes!!! Sounds like you had a bad sponsor, bad first marriage, and a very bad view of this business. So bad that you took the time to create this page???? How did you take a babysitter to convention and NOT know that she was getting paid by others also??? Don't look so far to find someone to blame, try a mirror. So whatare you doing now??? Good luck.

Best wishes for 2000

I'm thinking about joining this MLM, have any news (good or bad) on this operation? - Regards,

I'm glad to see that you responded. The web search engine I was using was just the Att world search engine and used just equinox and the list came up and the first I saw was a technology based company. I then saw your survivor page and decided to check it out. Thanx for the Info. Be careful.

I recently got involved in a mlm company. The company is International Teamworks Inc. Their main product is long distance phone service, the service is provided by MCI/WorldCom. I have not signed any reps, although I did sign some customers. I have been reluctant to sign reps because of an uneasiness about mlms. I do have a few people ready to sign as reps, but have stalled them, while I have been trying to checked this system out. While I did read you do not recommend any mlms, I was wondering if you have heard about this company, ITI. They are based in California. They have meetings, but I do not attend, and have been told it is not required. You are required to pay $299 per year for membership. Most of that money is paid to reps upline as you get your first customer and so on. You also get paid a comission on your and your downline phone customers. While the possibilities of making a lot of money sound good. When I joined I figured that ten per cent of that would help out. I have never been so torn as to what to do, If it works out you want people you know to join. On the other hand I do not want to involved anybody else in a scam. I appreciate this and the other sites on this matter, while this not exactly sound the same as the other companies that are talked about on these sites, the investment is not as large and there are no products to buy. I guess what I am looking for is an approval, I have contacted my state attorney general, if you know where else I can check I would appreciate it if you can let me know where to check.

"The question remains, however, what do the DeVos and Van Andel families hope to gain by privatizing AAP and AJL? The obvious conclusion is, it will save them the embarassment of having to report publicly about sliding sales and diminishing distributor numbers. A privately owned company is under no obligation to make these embarassments public: a stockholder-owned company is forced to. A private company can concoct whatever sets of information -- or misinformation -- it wants to: a public company must make audited reports available to its owners/stockholders."

I take it that the above statement is yours, or at least reflects your opinion. A couple things bother me, though. A buyback offer is usually above the current market value, otherwise no one would sell for less than they could get on the open market. If this is true for AMWAY, as I know from media reports that it is, then why are shareholders so determined to hang on to the stock of such a "poorly performing" (according to you) organization ? Wouldn't it make sense that they would love to take the money and run, rather than sue to hold onto their stock ?? Unless of course that your assessment that the company is doing so poorly is inaccurate at least, and incorrect a best. Secondly, while the stock market is booming on e-stocks, the SEC has had to come up with new ways to report earnings so that they provide a more detailed perspective on the losses associated with the largest e-com companies. So if AMWAY (AAL and AJP) wanted to conceal earnings issues, there are a lot less expensive ways to do so than to buy back all existing stock.

What am I missing ?

Part II

Wow, I looked at the lawsuits part of your site and found that P&G's suit against AMWAY has been dismissed in Utah and Texas. From the size of the companies, I would think P&G has about 7 times the resources to bring to bear on these suits (P&G is $37 billion and Amway is about $5 billion on sales). In addition, the courts have shut down a lot of these websites spreading their version of the AMWAY business plan and benefits. With all the "free speech" efforts going on out there, I thought if AMWAY and the AQMOs were so detrimental, there would be a lot more effort to get the word out to the public. Is it possible that these sites are spreading rumors that are unfounded, and possibly even lies and innacuracies. It appears that the United States court system feels there is a reason to shut these sites down. Which is it, are the US Courts part of a conspiracy, or are these sites misleading and inaccurate. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.

Thanks.

Part III

I created my hotmail address and passed it to only 2 sites, yours and one of your links, another anti-AMWAY site. I am now getting spammed by "business opportunity" people. Are you passing on my email address. Let me know so I can talk to the other webmaster as well. Thanks.

Part IV

With respect to sites being shut down by owners, there are a large number of free speech protection organizations out there that would probably love to pick up a "David and Goliath" story like this, if it actually had merit. That's my point on the wesite issue, I guess not many had merit.

With respect to stock, if shareholders file a lawsuit to hold onto stock when a corporation wants to buy it all back, usually that means that the shareholders find value in holding that stock, which means the company has a promising future. If you look at the charts for AAP and AJL (check out msn.com and get the stock chart), the buyback is the best thing that could happen to investors if the company was performing so poorly. Both stocks jumped about 50% when the announcement was made. If I had stock in a company that was performing as poorly as you depict in the first couple paragraphs of your page, I would think I was blessed to be able to sell it for 50% more than I could get the day before the announcement, and at leat 15 to 20% more than the last year's high.

My question is, with these being the facts, why do you keep choosing to take a piece of information and "spin" it to a negative consequence. If you are so interested in the truth, report the facts and label your commentary as your own commentary. Or is your entire site your commentary and less than factual.

Can't wait to see my emails and your replies posted ! Thanks.

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