The following posts have been reprinted in their entirety from posts e-mailed by readers of this website, except that headers, names and locations have been removed. These posts express the opinions and experiences of their authors, and this site publisher makes no representations about them in any way whatsoever.

Wow,

Just spent the past hour on this interesting site. Wish it were around back in 79- 83. My 1st exposure was Amway in San Diego (Age 19). The "YES WE CAN" ? & Kay Beacher Group. Same sad story different century. I became suspicious fairly early in their game. Busted my butt. Spent allot of money on products because you sell from an empty cart ya know. It seems it was a bit different back then. Less push for tools, and none of the fancy names were in vogue as far as I saw or heard. But damn todays stories mirror my experiences to the tee. I used (AND STILL DO) call it "babysitting".

Babysittting is where you get a person like me totally stoked on the concept of financial independence and future freedom from woking a job the rest of your life. Signing up people to build with you and slowly finding yourself building your business as fast as possible AND THEIRS TOO!!!

Bonus level checks meant... (while working full + overtime) talking to THEIR customers, ordering products under the THEIR ID numbers, driving out 30 -45 minutesto pick up stupid over priced products, that came with cute little stupid product stories that made you wonder what is wrong with this picture. Pick up products (return tomorrow to get backordered lousy can of mountain air freshener or what ever the backorder special was that week) Drop off the products at the Reps place so they can deliver the over priced goods...HECK NO!!!

They didn't deliver last weeks special trip-backordered over priced products to THEIR customers so I'd better do it because I'm going to build a huge organization to live comfortably. Just like the schmoz up on stage that didn't seem that bright. I mean they'd just repeat themselves at every chance they get at every meeting. Their excuse was...K.I.S.S. I began to understand the final S =Stupid.Me.

I felt I could find enough good people like myself but had to sustain and grow (Babysit) my existing downline.. Did I know better than to do this? Of course I did but I was gonna show all the nay sayers that were evil towards me for selling over priced soap I was becoming successful!!! Oh boy... What a lie. Couldn't lose face. So... off i would drive all over San Diego dropping off products. Many times with the hopes the money of payment would be mailed to me. (75% did).

So the point of this sad but true story? Amazing how that company used that over priced carrot in front of so many people's faces mine included to waste so much money and time. Funny, time was and still is my main motivator. But an education I did get. Now my MLM filters are on and as they say the cream rises to the top. In my opinion? AmWay uses people in such a questionable way. (restraining myself)

This has worn me out just reliving my past these last few minutes. Would I change any thing from my AMWAY days? Sure in a minute. That was a very hurtful episode I could have easily done with out. It has taken a few years to get over the fears and other baggage that was created.

I'm not surprised that it seems that the company has taken steps through the years to adjust and change their stripes. That uneasy feeling I had right from the beginning wasvalidated thru this site and forum. I am greatful for your work in allowing people to speak their minds. For those who doubt our stories... SNAP OUT OF IT NOW.1...2...3...! IF not now you will later and time is the biggest commodity all of us have on this precious planet. Sincerely,

Great site will write soon. May have lost the letter I just wrote you though. Keep me on your E-list please. Former AMWAY rep 79-83. Thank you,

Thank you for your info on this case. I am curious, were you a former distributor in World Wide Dream Builders? How did you get started in MLM Survivors? Thanks

Hi my name is *, i think my mother in-law is being scammed by a new multi-level marketing company that sell heat & smoke detectors. The company is called triad safetly systems inc. If you've heard anything on this company, please please send it to me before she looses her money and friends.

Dear No More Scams,

How unfortunate is your story. I have purchased Amway products since I was in college and found them to be very good. I never once read in your story that you had followed the 8 step pattern. If after all, you were given a map to success from Bill Gates or Donald Trump, would you not follow it. And if you "conviently" left out some steps do you expect to achieve that same level of success?? I'm not slamming you, however, I can bet that you were "doing" Amway and not the business itself. I have been successful in the business, and so were you, you sponsored some people. So, it does work. BUT, unless you are completely honest with yourself about your business venture, you are cheating yourself, in Quixtar, Amway, etc.

Why are there so many successful people in the Amway business? What made them succeed and you not? Please do not start false rumor's about the business that you don't put in your "STORY". Tell the people what you didn't do and then let them make a bona fide decision. Tell them about the 8 step pattern for success.

The difference between a wealthy person and unwealthy person is the amount of times that the wealthy person FAILED, but they kept trying and the unwealthy person QUIT.

So sorry that you didn't see the opportunity for what it was.

Just wanted to say thanks for all of the info your website contains. My husband and I were in "the business" for 5 years and finally came to our senses back in June. Like you, we were appalled by the lack of integrity and deception that we came across especially from our upline Diamonds. I watched my husband pour his heart and soul out to build our business and never achieve any of the goals we had set. With 2 small children and our 3rd on the way, it was painful to us to give up time with our family but we did it because we bought the lies our upline dished out freely and without conscience. Since leaving "the business", we feel incredibly free and we are able to spend time with our children and each other and participate in activities at our church, etc. The deprogramming process has been a difficult one but we feel blessed because we have our sponsors and upline directs (who left "the business" when we did) to talk to. Actually our former upline directs ( now real friends) have been contacted by a number of "team drop outs" and they joke about running a halfway house for ex team members.

Thanks again for your website. You are right on target!

I guess I'll have to read your story because I can't imagine what would turn someone into such a truth-twisting instrument of disinformation. Especially in regards to your e-mails with "Larry". He was right in telling you that there was no additional cost to roll over into Quixtar from Amway, all you had to do was renew in your business of choice or both. In fact Steve Gulicks comments are not put in context by you either, his statement was in the context of people starting to build their downlines in the pre-launch, kinda sounds accurate now, doesn't it? And the compensation plan was revealed to be the same way before the launch date. You have a knack for taking innocent comments and f@!?ing them up. I sure hope you've gone over the legalities of your site with an attorney! Larry's first statement that you quoted was completely accurate and did not conflict with Ken McDonalds at all, he said it would roll over, and that was the truth. In fact Distributors who registered prior to 9-1-99 enjoyed duo status up until renewel. I won't waste any more of either of our time. I've seen some pretty objectionable behavior on the part of individuals and I don't care for certain organizations characteristics, if your going to attack something use the truth, and use it in context.

Dear Sirs: Do you have any information re: the above noted MLM company? They are a/k/a "WIN" and their homeoffice is in Plano, Texas (a N. Dallas suburb). I would appreciate your response. Thank you.

Hi Nomore: I had never even considered MLM and only been approached a couple of times (yes, Amway). I have a photography business. I got invited to a meeting by a man I only new by name, as he had run for the state legislature. I figured it was to be asked to do some free photography for what someone considered a good cause (their cause, which sometimes is). Workload problems caused me to be late, so I called and told him I could not make it. He called the next week and said the man he wanted me to meet was going to be visiting from Kansas City day after and could I meet them for lunch? Okay.

Dick Johnson introduced me to J.R. Scott his son-in-law. J.R. was very cordial in a real way, he did not come across as a pitchman. I found out later it was illegal for him to show me 1099 and copies of checks. In ten minutes I was sold on making money by doing people the favor of getting them out of the clutches of Ma Bell and companies that operated like Ma Bell and enjoying lower rates.

I did the MLM thing. I spent money on equipment like I never did for photography; Same, as far as travel and seminars and Excel required you buy forms (which they changed often) and promoted all kinds of other material. Due to selective breeding (one of my discoveries brought about by studying human religions) my religious nature went for it. Still, I kept seeing problems. I would write Kenny Troutt and be ignored. I decided to build a paper trail, so I kept writing. I still drove long distances to learn. Saw through Excel's big money makers more and more. Kenny Troutt knows what is going on, but can claim he does not know and they are not acting for Excel or authorized by Excel. You know. I got to on rep from promoting myself to Regional Director and I just could not do it and I had the cadidate. Wound up with tons of stuff and could not sell it to other reps, as I would be furthering Excel. Also, did not try to sell my position and for the same reason. Excel drops customers from Long Distance geneologies, so reps are not being paid commissions on customers gathered. They do many things that are illegal, but most important is that lawmakers should use them as an example to study to make laws to control the abuse of people. The payment plan is really for recruiting. It underpays. If you crunch the numbers it looks like they overpay. They kill off reps and keep the customers. It messes up our communications business. For this reason, if elected to straighten out the mess, Kennard of FCC will be recycled along with Kenny Trout and Steve Smith.

One could argue humans deserve it, because they get screwed and either actively help others get screwed or do nothing to prevent others from getting screwed. Once again, selective breeding based upon religion, because if you did not just stand there when someone was being sacrificed you did not live to go on breeding. Also, why we somehow feel better when injured when we learn someone else got hurt worse. Got to go, but Excel is out to screw the world and it will damage the United States, even though Troutt sold to Canadian Teleglobe. Thanks for what you are doing. I am working on Multiplier Effect Marketing, which I claim copyright and trademark to and will use to try to make it a safe and good marketing approach. I will have it on my website John.Ebeling.com in a week or so. (Another reason I can appreciate your efforts) You are different. One of my sayings is: Every right you take for granted and every freedom you hold dear was gained for you by a rebel. I wish you the best nature has to offer. (that's takes in everything).

what do you know about shaklee?. it seems very similar to amway.

I'm reading your book. Good book! I enjoy reading it. I left the Britt System in May 1998. I'm glad left them. No more pressure from them to perform. I would be interesting in your testimonial. I would like to attach it to my website for others to read. You can write it without displaying your real name. I'm glad that you are out. It's a good feeling. We'll Talk later.

I see a lot of information on your site about a lot of MLM businesses. However, I would like to know something about Melaleuca. I cannot find anything on your site about Melaleuca. I am not sure how to research this stuff or even where to go to find out about Melaleuca. Everything I have read on the WEB so far has been positive. I do not want to get scammed. Is there any information you can give me about Melaleuca. Thanks,

Dear sir- I read in your statement "I recall from the 20/20 interview ...". If you have the specific date in which this investigation was aired, I would like to get it from their archives & show it to my husband. My husband was "lured in" from an ad in the newspaper more than a year ago and, as you stated, there has been virtually no outcome aside from a $5000 loan we have to repay with our own money, because the products, as you well know, are not selling. I trully believe my husband had nothing but good intentions, and he still does for this company. However, I do not feel the same. From the start I had hesitations, but I had faith in my husband. He trully trusted in the lies the seminars told him; that if he could not afford to go to these seminars, to take out a loan- or ask a family member for the $$$ because this is where you will learn to make over $10,000 a month! yeah, right. I wish there WAS a way we could send all this crap back to them and get our money back, but that's not possible. If you have any additional useful information, it would be greatly appreciated. Initially, my husband took this "opportunity" because we just had a baby and we now had only one income. Now we are working on our second baby and ontop of the future medical bills, we are paying this $5000 loan off to a money grubbing, scum sucking monster that took that money to go off on his big boat to the caribbean with his director friends and spend our hard earned money on chicks, food & booze. Must be nice! God help that man and give him a conscience! I am very angry at this turnout, but have learned a very valuable lesson as well. It just sucks that the lesson cost $5000!

I'm afraid your response is based on a misunderstanding. The first thing I did was to read your story. But you should know that I have been associated either directly or indirectly with the Amway business almost from it's inception. My father was one of their first distributors. He failed not because of anything his upline did (or did not do, as the case may be) but because he was an alcoholic. I have personally used the products for more than 30 years, and have been a distributor for nearly 6 years.

As is likely with any other business, there are problems. But you cannot blame the actions of the few on the many. Your site mentions law suits, but one of the most often exhibited aspects of a successful business is how many people are trying to sue them. There's something about success that breeds lawsuits, especially in this sue happy society. If you have money, somebody is likely to be trying to get it away from you in one way or another. This is especially true of business that are seen as having more than their 'fair share' of money. For instance, when Amway approached Coca-Cola about handling their product, Coca-Cola cited the Proctor and Gambol lawsuit as a consideration against the proposal. Amway's lawyers came back with the number of lawsuits pending against them. And you know how big Coca-Cola is. The end results is that Amway does handle Coca-Cola products. So having lawsuits against you is not necessarily a problem.

I am currently an Amway distributor, but am not involved with Quixtar, and I have not been actively sponsoring people. I stay in because I like the products and the convenience of not having to go out shopping. I do occasionally attend one of the seminars, but I do not purchase the tapes, etc., and no one berates me for it. (I'm lucky in that we have our seminars right here in town.) I do not agree with everything I hear from the stage, but then, I do not agree with everything I hear from the pulpit, either. I know that to be 'successful' in this business that I supposed to sponsor 9 people and then help each of them sponsor another 6, etc. I've been in no rush to do so, and there is no one pushing me. If I don't 'succeed' it's my responsibility, not my upline's or Amway's. If and when I decide to start sponsoring, I know where to go. What you say about Quixtar may prove to be true, but I somehow doubt it.

I plan on visiting your site again because one of my concerns is any problems that have shown up in the system, and how they can be solved. If what you say about your involvement with your Diamonds is true, then you know that passing negative aspects downline is not approved. But how can you solve a problem you don't know exists? We're told that you don't learn success from those who have failed, but you can analyze their 'failures' and learn what not to do, at least. You have to admit there is a problem, then identify it before you can solve it. Having been a college business major helps in that analysis, of course. My business ethics instructor applauded me and said that we need more people like me in the business would after I told him that I felt that you can run a business that is both ethical and profitable. That was 12 years ago, but I still believe it, and plan to prove it. I don't know if that will be with Amway or with some other business, but if I fail where others have succeeded that is usually not their fault. It just means that it wasn't the right business for me, and I'm not going to let the experience make me bitter. It is best to preceive our 'failures' as learning experiences and try to use what we learned to make our next attempt a success. I have 'failed' in many things. Amway is not the first business I have been in, and it may not be the last. Others have been successful where I have not. So what. I don't plan on giving up my day job anytime soon, regardless.

I wish you well, and may correspone with you again in the future

i started to read your story but did not have to complete it since i've seen firsthand and read many other accounts of this type of situation. i spent 3 active years in amway before leaving (reluctantly, admittedly) to join another company. the other company is not structured as an mlm, but it can be categorized as a networking, home-based business. about a year after i left amway, i learned about these sites. i was horrified to learn that i had been part and parcel of a process to lure people into buying overpriced products and spending even more money to enrich emeralds and diamonds through their training systems. when i brought this to the attention of my former upline, who i had remained friendly with and even purchased products from, they pooh-poohed it and said these people deserved to make money like this. in fact, practically every other amway distributor (hardly any of whom had even a little success) were so defensive of the whole system. many of these people have spent 20-40 hours per week toiling away in desperation just to enrich those fraction of 1% who make it. all of these people originally got involved to make a lot of money and become free. after some time, usually 2-3 years when it has become painfully obvious that they have no chance of ever reaching their goals through amway, their attitude becomes one that it's not important whether or not they make money; rather, their relationships are what is so important. they take time off from their jobs, businesses and family, and spend precious dollars to attend those ridiculous monthly 10 hour rallies and quarterly weekend conventions. one would think they have better things to do than listen to the endless hours of hype without getting any kind of return on it.

after all i've said, you might think i have a negative feeling towards network marketing. the truth is i have a very positive feeling. it's a fantastic concept to eliminate the middlemen and have the people in between make the money instead. It's immoral and in many cases even illegal when the system is corrupted so that people pay much more for products and services than they would if they were not involved in this particular company. The enormous profits from the training systems are a disgrace, particularly that they are not disclosed. These type of companies have a reorder rate from month to month of probably about 15% (I'm guessing). You have your less than 1% who are successful and the other desparate individuals who fake it until they make it and shop (usually overshop) until they drop. There are hardly any pure customers, i.e., people who just buy and don't try to build a business. So, the business builders continuously try to replace the dropouts. They can't replace them fast enough.

All of this doesn't mean that every networking company operates like that. Indeed, the prevalence of lawsuits centers around 2 companies, Amway and Equinox. I don't believe there are any other companies who have more than an occasional lawsuit. Do you think, then, that it's fair to paint the entire industry with the same brush? I'm agreeing with you that it does happen, but it's not as prevalent as you would lead people to believe.

Take the company I'm with, for example. I will not name it, as I do not have the right to claim that I represent it. Our philosophy is to market products that are superior, priced competitively, convenient to purchase with a 100% money-back guarantee. We recognize the 20-80 rule (probably more like 10-90) that 20% of the people will do 80% of the work. So, we know we're looking for customers and not "distributors." They dial a toll-free number to order and are not harassed at all to continue ordering, but they do at a staggering 96% reorder rate. The business builders are not allowed to track their points, so that at the end of the month they can't pinpoint people to buy more so that they can advance to a higher pin level. Additionally, the commissions are capped at approximately $100 of the customer's purchases, with the customer receiving a whopping 25% rebate on his own purchases of over $100 (this on top of competitive prices, which have remained basically unchanged for 15 years). For people who are business builders, there are FREE company-sponsored meetings; if a local group sponsors a meeting, there is a nominal $5 charge to offset the cost of renting space. No marketing executive is allowed to make money on tapes. The company does make tapes available, usually at $3 apiece. The company even goes so far as to not follow its own logical policy of chargebacks for returned products, so I've never even seen any marketing executive lose any commissions for products returned. Anybody who has objectively scrutinized this company has nothing negative to say about it. Even with all this, success is not guaranteed, but it is more likely.

I am very glad that the negatives in the industry have been exposed, but it's a shame that so many people think they're ALL THE SAME. I'd love for the Amway-type of company to be exposed, but when I see my company lumped in there with them, as well as many other reputable companies, it's sad that businesses with a lot of integrity have to suffer. Indeed, the biggest obstacle I have in building my business is that so many people whon't sit down with me because they think "it's an Amway or something like that." I urge you to continue to try to clean up the Amway/Equinox act but let's be fair. Thank you,

Can you please help me?

I have spoken to you before regarding INA. I would like to find out more information from people who were involved particularly with INA who know of their practices. Particularly, I would like to know how the tools money is divided among pin levels and if the Emeralds and Diamonds in INA have similar cash flow to the people in the AMO you were involved with.

If you have been in contact with anyone involved with INA please could you forward this email to them. I do not wish to know who they are, Anonymity is fine with me and I know as a general rule you probably do not do this and if that is the case I respect that. I only wish to know that I have enough information from the horses mouth so to speak to know I have made the correct decison in not getting involved with INA. I assure you that I will handle any information in the strictest confidence.

I hope you and your family had a fun Christmas and New Year. I am currently trying to get as much skiing done as possible. I appreciate your help and advice so far.

I am a Biology student here at a state school in Pa, named Edinboro University. While fairly small it provides you with an excellent education if your willing to listen. This past summer I stayed up here in Erie to make it easier for myself instead of going home. I ment a particular fellow named Mike at my job. We got along well and he introduced me to this new web site hitting the web called quixtar.com I asked him what was it? He has stated that they sold everything from toilet paper to new cars. Being from a poor background I was excited to be able to do something as e-commerce from my very own home without having to pay for domain names or banners etc... I thought about it for awhile but not objectively, the very idea just took all of my objectiveness out of my head. I said I would go with it. When he came over to my apartment I had to fill out a form and pay a few of $55 dollars to get started. The real kicker was I had to call someone if I wanted to advertise my own business, whats up with that. If its my own business why do I have to consort with someone to run it? He introduced me to some type of boss, like an upline or some sort of sponsor for me. This guy was extremly nice and pleasent. We went to his house for a presentation. He was touting about the same very claims that you had mentioned on your web page. At the time the web page had just gotten on its beaten legs. He was saying that he was having so much trouble getting on the site because it was so busy. While he fumbled with being a first time internet user, it made him only look even more ridiculous. If your going to be an business owner over the web you'd best know your stuff and have your shit wired tight. We never got on that page once that night. After the home page loaded we couldn't go anywhere else on the site. What changed my mind was the fact that I couldn't get a new cat litter box for our new kitten. They had offered one but it was the "litter maid", which retails for $150.00, we ended up going to Giant eagle to get a litter box for $5.00. SSSSOOOOO much for the one stop shopping. Another event that changed my mind was when I got a form from quixtar that stated I had to pay them another few to use their web site. A fee of $20.00 The first fee was for amway, by the way. Well my friend never told me I would be involved with amway directly! Finally their statistics abosolutely bothered me. I had puzzled days over this in the back of my head. As a serious student of science I am to question were one gets their data. So where did they get their data? Themselves they took the data and "massaged it." At the same time their staticians had been "Experimentor-biased" towards their own data. Both of these are experienced alot in the research industry. Which is why true data is "double blinded" so that the researchers may never know the true interpretation of ones study, which should be only fair. Busted!!!!!!!!!! They are just another shame for amway to make more money but use the internet as a front. Shame on them and to all of the unsuspecting participants who don't know what their talking about. If you don't understand the data a hand and its implications or how it was gotten than it doesn't deserved to be used for a trumped up web site. The only true dollar is one earned through hard times and the long road of a good education. Which is were my journey is just beginng here with my education. BRAVO to skeptiscism and BRAVO to your wonderful site!!!!!

Sincerly,

P.S. please respond to my e-mail if possible.

What do you know about The Wildfire Co-Op? It is listed as a division of Ad-Net, Inc. and has some sort of affiliation with Life Force Intl. By their mailer it sounds like the old airplane game. Thanks,

Although I was only active for about a month, the following is my Quixtar story:

First of all, I thought that I was getting involved with this great new company called Quixtar that had just partnered with IBM, Microsoft, and Frye Multimedia. I was told that it would be around $100 to become an independent business owner, but that I would get a gift certificate for $70. Later on, I found out that this "gift certificate" was in the form of a "kit." You can imagine my surprise when I received the kit and it was all Amway products! Nonetheless, I was coaxed into being told that Amway is just one of Quixtar's many distributors and that I must have misunderstood the part about receiving a gift certificate. Finally, after going to a rally, I realized that Quixtar and Amway were basically one and the same. It was around this time that I found the mlm survival site. Suddenly I understood why my upline always reiterated that they based their entire success on who's buying tapes/books and who's attending rallies/functions. Only recently did I write to Quixtar explaining why I wanted to resign my distributorship. I received the following letter today via e-mail:

"We have received your request to cancel your business with Quixtar.

"You will be pleased to know that we have issued full credit on invoice 0117957224 to the credit card originally charged.

"If you have not already returned the Quixtar kit sent to you, please feel free to keep it compliments of Quixtar.

"We are sorry you have chosen to relinquish your Quixtar business and wish you the best in your future endeavors.

"Sincerely,

"Quixtar Corporation Business Information Services (D156)"

Thanks for letting me vent!!!! I have very much appreciated your site as well as all of the links.

Hi!

I feel for you, I really do. You're obviously in a lot of pain.

I read, with interest, your stories tying all of these Amway/Quixtar people together and can't help but think that maybe you sleuthing is somewhat incomplete. Did you do any investigation as to whether any of these people also ate green, leafy vegetables?

In fact, I'm willing to bet that the real tie is the green, leafy vegetables. Think about it. I'm willing to bet that you also eat green, leafy vegetables! Does that mean that you will also, at some future point, commit some heinous act?

By the way, when do you forgive one who has, indeed, committed some crime? Or is it "once a felon, always a felon?" Once one pays their "debt" to society, should they then also be branded and banished?

I do feel very sorry for you. You've obviously been hurt badly -so badly that you live to pass your hurt on.

I'll pray for you.

Sincerely,

I'm sure you've received some interesting e-mails about this subject, both pro and con. The one important thing with network marketing is that you have to do thorough research into each company that you are considering before deciding to join. Each company has its own philosophy and I have found through experience that companies which offer a consumable product such as a nutritional one, often are the best. There may in fact be companies out there that are not on the up and up but you will find that in any industry, whether it be Franchising , Banking, etc. people will file file complaints and organizations such as the FTC will do so as well. The mark of a good company is one that can resolve those complaints in as fair a way as possible and can learn from their mistakes. I know you've heard that Franchising was only a few votes from being deemed illegal back about 25 years ago but now can boast 1/3 of our gross national product. Do you remember the bad press it received and all of those investigative Tv programs that dedicated their shows to exposing this corrupt business system? Network marketing is going through the same problems now. The bugs are being worked out. But a scam, hardly. I encourage you to do your homework and find the company that best fits you. I amwith an excellent one . You may find one too. Good luck.

Dear mlmsurvivor,

I am a 19 year old boy who is just at his second year in college, and is looking for new opportunities and new ways to earn some forms of income. So one day, I met a man named **, that said to me that I can have a great way of earning an very reasonable income by joining a online e-commerce named quixtar. He told me about how to make income about the site being one of the greatest and biggest money making machines on the web, and so he asked me if I would like to join this thing, so I said to him , hey you know what I'll think about it and I will let you know.

And here I am, I live in Aruba, and I am just a boy with big hopes and doubts, I did some researching about quixtar and I came to find this site. So now I was wondering if you can help me here,do you think that this quixtar thing and being an IBO in aruba will make a change for me? ( In aruba, very few people buy online, in fact minus 1% of the population) So can I have some information about this quixtar stuff and if I need to avoid it?

send me an E-mail at * my name is ** thanx for your time.

Im interested in any news about skybiz.

Hi'

As a first timer at this, please bear with me.

This afternoon I attended a meeting with a couple promoting on-line shopping and their company a2k, which they told me was only affiliated with Amway and not part of . What do you know about this a2k company? There seemed to also be a big push to become an IBO and I was told to watch Amway Asia Pacific on the stockmarket as it would be a "boom-stock". Anyway, after reading your site I am feeling a little uneasy about joining up with this company. Joining fees are $108 (GST 10%),plus $60 for each year thereafter for IBO's and $33 for members. Any information would be appreciated.

Thanks

The negative testimonials people have given about Equinox are all true. This is what you can expect from Equinox:

--at your first meeting, they will tell you fantastic stories about people who have built a fortune, and how it all started by selling a case of breath spray (implying that you don't need to buy in with a lot of money). But if you try to start your business that way by buying a small amount of product and selling it, they will strongly encourage you to make the $5,000 buy-in. If you don't want to, they will yell at you, tell you they only want to work with "motivated" people (read: people who will put up the cash), and drop you like a hot rock unless you comply. My director had told me that I was her main project--she would help me, mentor me, give me recruits, etc., UNTIL I said I wasn't going to pay the $5,000. Suddenly I wasn't so interesting to her anymore, even though I had told her I wanted to work hard and sell the product.

--they will insult your education. I was trying to complete my master's degree when I was involved with Equinox, and they told me it would lead nowhere and that education was "over-rated." I met one woman at a seminar who had quit her 15 year career as a special education teacher because education (and service) is "over-rated." I am so glad I finished that degree--I'm using it now to make good money at a job I enjoy.

--they will tell you to lie to the bank to get a loan. My bank didn't give business loans, so they told me to say it was a "personal loan." They will encourage you to get more credit cards. This is not healthy, and these people are not your friends.

--they'll tell you that going into debt is the only way to make money. I said I wanted to pay off my debts before making a new investment of any kind, but they said that the top earners in the company had been thousands of dollars in debt when they started--and look at them now! They'll talk about using "other people's money" to get rich.

--they'll talk about all the "doctors and lawyers" that are in the company, who have abandoned their jobs in favor of financial freedom. They also tout around all the "elementary school teachers" and other professionals they have in the company. I never met any. The only Equinox people I met were people who hadn't held successful jobs in the past and who were deeply in debt and grasping at straws, or folks just out of high school hoping to make a fortune without getting a real job.

--they'll pretend *they're* making money hand over fist, but if you dig deeper, you'll see they're struggling too, and will do ANYTHING to get your $5,000. My director, formerly very sweet and supportive, turned into a very angry and intense person when I decided not to put out the $5,000. I also found out later that she herself was taking out a $5,000 loan to pay the bills. Why did she need to do that if she was making so much money? She carried around one $5,000 check she had gotten from Equinox as an example of the kind of money you could make, but she only had that one, and it wasn't even recent.

--they'll push you to go to seminars--and not wait until they come to your town but to buy airfare and go, because it will "launch" your career. They'll show you the checks they made before they heard Bill Gouldd's seminar, and the checks they made after. The seminars are just a lot of hype, where you learn to read scripts to your prospective recruits, dance around to rock music, and listen to Bill Gouldd insult people for being so blind as to not see the "opportunity." Later you end up taking the recruits to those seminars, and they learn they were scammed by you, and learn to read those scripts to others.

--no matter what they say, they DO promise income. There is never any mention of the fact that you may not earn anything. When my friend called about one of their phony "job interviews" (which is a briefing session with 45 other people), she was asked "What kind of salary are you looking to earn?" She quoted a figure, and was told, "I'm sure we can handle that."

--you learn to falsely flatter your up-line. When I brought a friend to a briefing, people I had never met before were telling my friend how great I was. It was embarrassing for both of us. Anyone with any intuition can see right through it.

--in our office, sexual favors were being exchanged for business benefits.

--It all boils down to putting down that $5,000, and getting other people to do the same.

--It is very hard to return products. I had a defective filter, and the "tech support" people denied there was a problem, and were extremely rude. And I had to pay for the long-distance call! No 1-800-numbers for "employees." Everything--the seminars, the travel agency, the desk and office space--is designed to make SOMEBODY ELSE, not you, richer.

--it may be true that there is the potential to make money, but it will always be at someone else's expense. Dig a little deeper. Find out more about the directors and managers in your upline. I was under the impression that my director was making tons of money, until I went to her house one day. It was tiny. Everything is one big front. At one meeting, the leader told us that if we had an older car, not to park it in the lot next to the office, but to park down the street so we wouldn't tarnish the image.

Avoid, avoid, avoid!

Hello, I have a quick question. In your article, you mentioned individuals buying into the system. What about free MLM opportunities?

What is take on a system that is free to join but includes some of the negatives of other mlm opportunities, i.e.. hype, marketing to warm markets, over exaggerated income potential? I would also like your opinion on the individual who joins an mlm with the understanding that the likelihood for success is very slims, yet they are dynamic individuals who can recruit and build massive organizations - not confused organizations, but groups of people who are privy to the nature of network marketing. Is there any wrong from profiting from this system when all parties understand what's involved? Thank you for your attention, I look forward to your response.

Respectfully,

Any pros or Cons on the Big Planet?? Any info at all except it appears to be a bloated NuSkin operation trying to pass itself off as a ground floor opportunity..??

As I read your site I realize you are an intelligent,level-headed person who has had some unfortunate experiences with your particular sponsor and methods of business practiced while you were a distributor. I am currently at the Founders Platinum level with Quixtar as my primary business.My wife and I have been in the business since 1992.Currently my gross income as a Platinum is 63,000 (1999 estimated) as you have correctly assumed I do not keep it all. After paying downline I am left with about 40,000.(sorry to use estimates but I have not done taxes yet) Now of course there are expenses to be deducted as well. Our travel and gas and business related expenses add up to 15,000.(approximations) Remember that these expenses pay for what we consider to be very fun business travel.I find my business associates to be delightful people who have had great influence on my marriage, my non amway business interests and my ability to get along in this world.

So back to my income.Yes there is other money to be made in addition to the aforementioned Amway income. I would say this monthly check averages about 300 dollars and comes from the sale of tapes and books.I make no money on functions or appearances.I must admit I had a similiar reaction you did when you found out that upline is paid on the distribution of tools. I was dismayed at first but then I started thinking about how those tools had helped me in my attitude, my people skills, and my Amway business. If it had not been for a major function I would not have gotten involved----and I doubt you would have either. Realize also that the costs of these tools and functions were not of great consequence to me personally when I saw what they would provide to me in reaching my goal. I empathize with the financial challenges you encountered as you struggled to build your Amway biz,particularly as a single mom.Ten years is a long time to work for something and then to find your trust betrayed by the people who had been your running mates.

Let me also state what my personal time committed is.When I began I worked at least 25-30 hrs a week.This pace was run for about 18 months and then I backed it down to 10 hrs and have been at the level since.So that explains why I am still at Platinum. No other reason.Of course these websites have not helped.That is why I am responding. I hope to show that we IBO's are not Satan incarnate trying to destroy financially all those around us.

I do have a few questions for you,and I realize it is difficult to respond personally,but perhaps you will answer at the site. When you built or when you were a distributor was there a period of 12-18 months where you showed 10-12 personal plans to those at your ambition level each month? Never doing less than 10? Now by your ambition level I mean someone who was at the same socio-economic and educational level as yourself.

Next question.How much do earn from this site and from the sale of your own book as well as the pop up ads that appear on the page? I realize that you may not make much yet but perhaps you anticipate a tidy little sum in the future. Maybe even some expert witness work for the increasing litigation.Networks and media may come calling. More books in the works.If it is you dream I hope it comes true.Then somehow those ten years will not have been in vain.....

Looking forward to seeing this on the site. Thank you

I just want to thank you so much for what you are doing. I live in Corpus Christi, Texas, and an individual from Houston approached my friend about an internet business he was gonna start here in Corpus. So, my friend told me about the meeting and I just figured we just had to meet this guy. Well, we set up a meeting at a local fast food place. He went on with his presentation. Me and my friend were just blown away. But, (luckily!!!) me and my friend had no money at the time. I was all excited and ready to go to work for the Quixtar.com site. But, he was foolish enough to lend me the book "Rich Dad, Poor Dad." I soaked up the literature in the book like a sponge. I began to think with my brain and not my emotions. Right then and there, reality hit me. I asked myself questions. How was this business going to really benefit me??? Should I get into it for just the money??? What security do I really have with this company??? I came up with the answer that this was all crap. I was breaking the first rule right off the bat, "The rich don't work for money!!!" And, I wasn't about to bust my ass to make the rich richer and take money away from my local economy. I figured the only way I would get involved with the site would be through investing in stocks. But, (Again, luckily!!!) they don't sell stocks. They would be worthless anyway. Well, enough about me. I just want to thank you for the work you are doing, and keep it up!!! I also want to thank Robert Kiyosaki for writing such an awesome book on how to get wealthy!!! I am on my way. Knowledge is power. But, before I go, I have to say one more quote. "It's not how much you make, it's how much you keep!!!" oh, wait. "The rich buy assets, and the middle-class and poor buy liabilities!!!" Take it easy. Keep it real!

FACE YOUR FEARS AND LIVE YOUR DREAMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was so glad to see the article about 2xpi. I was with that Co. for 22 months. I spent approx. $20,000. It was devastating to me. I was an Ex. Director, I even set next to Dave Bowen several times. I was asked to be on one of their infomercials and I could not say anything good about this Co. I could not get out because of the money I spent I had to hold on. This Co. hurt so many people who believed in them and themselves. I hope they get what they deserve. I know John Polk is in prison, how can he face his little kids is beyond me.

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