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The following posts have been reprinted in their entirety from posts e-mailed by readers of this website, except that headers, names and locations have been removed. These posts express the opinions and experiences of their authors, and this site publisher makes no representations about them in any way whatsoever. Re: Advocare Hello, I'm looking for information about advocare. If you do have any information about this company could you please e-mail it to me. I would really appreciate it. Oh, and do you ever receive any good comments and/or information about mlm's? Thank you,
Very few people have the knowledge, experience, and capital to start a business from scratch. And very few people can understand what generating a life-long income really does to wealth. (Just creating a $100,000 residual income makes you a virtual millionaire. $100,000 a year could only be generated from a $1,000,000 in savings if you could get 10% interest. If you were receiving $100,000 from any business, it would be worth about $2,000,000 in today's economy. YOU DON'T HAVE TO MAKE A MILLION DOLLARS TO BE A MILLIONAIRE, YOU CAN OWN SOMETHING WORTH OVER A MILLION DOLLARS.) MLM is a business model, a way of doing business, it replaces and/or competes with other business models. It gets products to consumers. Manufacurers believe in it. Many successfull distributorships believe in it. Many consumers believe in it. Anyone fighting for market share outside of the model has serious reason to be unsupportive of it. The fact is that it is a very powerful model. Today, it is actually one of the best business models for getting products and services to the consumer and can be very profitable for successfull entrepreneurs. Just like franchises became when competing with the major chains and independents. And there probably will be better models in the future because business is like all other things, it stives for something better all the time. For the average person MLM offers the single best opportunity, today, to start a business with significant rewards if successfull. There is risk, but the start up is not prohibitive for almost anybody. The problem is that most of the "participants" don't see it as successfull "business", failed "business, struggling "business", thriving "business, begining "business", etc. You have to take a risk to reap the reward in business and success is not guaranteed. You can't become disallusioned because you try once and fail. You get up and try again (it doesn't have to be the same thing the next time). The bright side to failed MLM businesses is that the debt a failed one brings is so very, very minor compared to the debts realized by failed traditional businesses which offer no better odds of success and no better rewards. The problem is that there are skills (personal and business knowledge)required to succeed at business. The "tools" serve that purpose. They do have two sides. The other is that someone profits upfront from the sale of tools. But when you start you need all of the advantages you can get and the tools really give you a better chance to succeed. You do have to be fiscally responsible to your business, beyond what is required for you is what is required to help those who you have promised to help also succeed. You have to invest in them. But you have to balance how much you spend to prepare for growth, you have to be smart. Because of the profit motive, some greedy black hats may not help you be fiscally responsible. But that can't be bad enough not to use it because tools are very valuable. You have to invest in your business (any business). If you aren't going to commit to it like there is risk or the lack of success to investment reaches a limit, you fold, re-group, and try again (or something else) another day. That is business. I have two traditional businesses and a MLM business. One traditional business is a service business, it's like a job, income comes in when my wife works, doesn't when she doesn't. But it offers flexibilty to work around school and kid's schedules better than here professional job did. It is profitable, now. It always had cash flow, but it took three years to break even with initial investment. The other traditional business incurred an initial investment of $18,000 and an additional $27,000 in debt. Two years of intense effort and we have made little progress. The $18,000 is long gone and the debt is still $23,000. We're making some progress. For an additional investment of $16,000 we can have our first break. With subsequent advertising we MIGHT begin to realize a monthly return of $1600 a week (but no guarantees, and if we do there is nothing that prohibits a competitor to come along and out market us.) I wish I had spent as much effort in the MLM as I did in the other businesses the last two years because it is easier and has a better chance of success. Keep in mind, the experience you had is only part of the journey. Also, note that most of your responses to things happening in "the business" have a very pessimistic slant that doesn't examine the redeeming value of those things. One example and I'm done. You stated you knew that Quixtar would be cheaper to join and renew to encourage people to chose that option. I'm a professional engineer (yes I have a job, too) and we are going fully electronic, no more paper because it is a much cheaper route to go. No more paper documents and paper mail. Quixtar is all electronic, no more magazines and other mail. Amway is all paper. There is a basic, inherent differnce in cost. When you fail to look at both sides, your arguments become suspect and your whole point weakens. If you can't take an educated person through that process you have nothing more than what the next person can provide, little usefull information, nothing more than opinion without deep basis. But do note that at least a site like yours does let me have the occassion to take the "rose colored glasses" off and look at what affects people. Thanks. Re: Purchase Plus I was wondering if anyone knew anything about Purchase Plus Buyers Group out of Westerville, Ohio. It is currently being promoted in my area and a friend got in big time and finally convinced me to join. I got in for the minimum of $400. I think it is like the Winners Circle out of Florida which filed bankruptcy in October. Any info good or bad would be appreciated. Re: Amway Is there a list of people I can just talk to? I got screwed by Amway and have been really bummed and although I see a number of sites out there, there are no names or contacts to talk about my options now. Thanks
Hi. My name is *. I read your story and was deeply sympathetic with you. I, too, was in Amway, on the tape list much to the chagrin of my wife), and thought I was going to do well. After 18 months and sponsoring two couples, I gave up. In addition to that, I have been involved in Herbalife, Bestline, New Source, and Equinox. I still am a believer in network marketing. The point of this e-mail is that I take exception to your comments about Renaissance, The Tax People. Your CPA "expert" leaves much to be desired. "If you make $40,000 a year, there are limited potential tax strategies and tax savings." That is simply W-R-O-N-G! Having been in multi-level marketing for 28 years, and doing my own taxes all the while, I thought I was an "expert" in the area of taxes and a home-based business. Having been involved with Renaissance now, I could save the person making $40,000 thousands of dollars a year in taxes. The point of the company is NOT to disburse some "tax education". It is to set people up in a home-based business thereby making new tax deductions available to them. I have been involved with the company for about seven months. I have sponsored many times more people in this business than in Amway. I have realized an immediate pay raise due to the new deductions I am now aware of. And should I get audited, the company will represent me. It has been approved for continuing education credit for CPAs and financial planners in all 50 states. I have in my possession two e-mails from the IRS stating that the practices promoted by the company are legal. They are setting up a network of CPAs all over the country to assist members with their taxes. I suspect your CPA source is envious that he did not come up with this idea in the first place. Or perhaps he is just trying to keep from losing business in the future. Whatever his reasons are for not endorsing the plan, I hope you will reconsider your stance on the company. I would love to dialogue with you further about the company if you so desire. I would be happy to continue e-mailing, you can call me direct at home at **, or I would be happy to call you and put the call on my dime... tax deductible, of course. At any rate, I do wish you success in whatever endeavor you have chosen to follow. But wouldn't it be nice if you did find the "perfect" home-based business? Yours truly,
My experience is pretty limited. When I first saw the plan I said "Did any of these people study math?" The direct distributor was showing us the "plan." You get six friends, help them find 4 friends, help them find 2 friends and voila you have made it. No one got the fact that eventually you run out of people. After seeing the plan I thought, I was on the fence. I thought it might work. The numbers didn't work to make everyone "rich," but if I could buy stuff at below cost then it wouldn't really matter and getting other people to buy into the concept wouldn't be all that difficult. So after much harassment by my Wife's brother, we finally joined. We received our "starter kit." The cleaning solutions contained in the kit were actually acceptable. They did clean fairly well. You had to be very careful with it, since it might suffocate you in enclosed spaces, but that was probably why it worked as well as it did. We immediately started to get harassed about getting on the "standing order." My wife wisely said "no, I haven't had time to read the original material yet, I don't have time to read anymore." The harassment went on for a long time. We had hoped that the harassment would stop when we joined, silly us. When I started looking at the prices of the items that we could buy, I suddenly lost interest in being part of Amway, or at least part of the rampaging amway. Almost every item we wanted to order was more expensive than getting it in the local store (sometimes factors more). How could I convince others to buy into this concept when I couldn't get myself to make the numbers make sense. After the "rebate," which we were only able to reach once because in reality we didn't clean our house enough to use up the starter fluids, much less buy more. We didn't eat the canned products they had. The didn't just kept adding up. About the only thing we bought on a regular basis was vitamins. Which were close enough to being the same price. I started visiting these sites after that and realized just how wrong Amway was. I found out the WorldWide and ILD were just Amway Motivational Organizations in disguise. I saw the hundreds of tapes in my Brother-in-Laws house, all of which sounded exactly the same. It is now 5.5 years later. The direct who had presented the plan to us originally, who had said that he was moving to Oregon with the "Cash flow" he had created in the bay area, is still working for the same Engineering company. My brother-in-law is still working for the Grocery Store making $19/hr with no vocational and little post High School education and saying that it is an "okay" job. He had been coached by his "uplines" into believing that drivel. We were visiting them last year 1999, when I learned a couple of exciting pieces of information. 1. His upline had been surprised when he sold the shares in his 401K plan to purchase a Jet-Ski and was presented a hefty fine by the government (10% early withdrawal penalty). 2. Their diamond had had to move out of their ritzy home the preceding weekend. I asked "why did they have to move?" The answer: "The owner of the home (mansion) decided that they wanted to sell the house and did!" I was flabbergasted at this. A "millionaire" Diamond didn't own his own home. "Why didn't he own the house?" Answer "Because they didn't want to buy a house until they found their dream home." They had been living in this home for 4-5 years. I immediately had the revelation that not only weren't these people financially savvy. They weren't necessarily what they said they were. It may be that the diamond was a millionaire, but I am more inclined to believe that he moved a million dollars worth of merchandise. You do not own a house because it is your dream house. You own it cause it is much cheaper to own than to rent, unless you live in manhattan and are in a rent controlled apartment. Sorry the long letter. Amway is one of my pet peeves. My in-laws are still involved, and we still have a distributor card, (I didn't send in the money for this year yet, and don't plan to, unless my wife forces me). Stupidity drives me insane, and Amway is about as stupid as they come. By the way. My in-laws also changed churches as a result of Amway. I only caught this because I was dragged to church one weekend and saw a casual exchange between my Brother-in-law and his diamond of a motivational Material. Is Jeff Probandt site still around. His Anti-Anti-Amway site was the most informative site for anti-amway promoters available. The materials he posted on the net to prove that Amway made money for him, proved more than anything else what was really going on in Amway.
I did, however, want to make a correction on your assumption that my employer had not lied to me, when in fact, that was exactly the case. There were many subtle and blatant instances. I do not care to go into detail, as it is not my intention to expose or discredit anyone, neither publicly or privately and particularly not in an "online" environment. Someone else, who may have had better experiences with my employer than I had, might take offence. I would not want to be the one to inflict insult or injury to someone else's livelihood. If you ever workd in corporate America, which I imagine you have, you are quite fortunate to have never been lied to. I, on the other hand, wasn't so lucky. Sincerely and God Bless, It sounds like you had some pretty tough luck. Sounds like you were involved with a cult that brain washed you in driving those many miles and made to spend those dollars. The way I see it you have a week mind and a negative attitude. If you were sponsoring people at your level and below they were bound to quit. This system has helped thousands of people succeed in life. Not just financially but also spiritually and personally. Some of the most predominant and successful individuals in this society are involved with building organizations with this motto and company and became successful before being introduced to the business. I build this business because it has given me financial freedom and I help others better their life by doing the same. Some have a much better life by just being involved with the system and learning self worth and positive thinking on life and that eradiates throughout their family and friends and others who come in contact with them. I am sorry you had a bad experience with running your own business and had some bad breaks along the way. It happens to the best of us. But you only fail if you don't try again. I think you could better utilize your time than trying to put energy in spreading the word that you did not succeed at this business and take this opportunity away from others. If you read to the bottom of this page I commend you for that since you still have an open mind on how the majority of the public feels on this subject. I wish you the best of luck on your career and your family. Your reply was very interesting. I will keep it as an example. I think your response about a person's belief in the program was highly intelligent. It remins me of R.A.Wilson's quote: "what the beleiver believes, the prover proves". Wilson edits the Skeptical Enquirer (or did at one point). He always illustrated how the mind works by saying that you mind has a "believer" and a "prover" and that the prover is always figuring out how to help you interpret he world to uphold whatever belief system (which he humorously referred to as your "BS") the believer was holding onto. I'm trying to develop a set of questions that will work for just about any MLM or Pyramid scam that will deflate the pitch. The government actually has a great site for this. I'll keep in touch.
My daughter has gotten hooked on the Equinox Scam. Hook line and sinker. She seems to be very strange, she now says its not a job but a way of life. She has lost her job, friends, and her car trying to attend all those paid meetings. I have tried unsuccessfully to get her to read the truth about that company but she refuses. I want my daughter back. Any Suggestions? Since you offer comments, I thought I would write. Not sure why or how I hit your site, as I don't usually read negative things. I'm not in the MLM business but have several friends that have tried it. I believe that business is no different than anyother for several reason. Example the insurance business. I know many people that have tried insurance and when they fail they blame the insurance business, The first problem as I see it is that the business made it to easy for people to get in the business so you end up with the wrong people. However, some of the wealthest and sharpest people or in the insurance busines and quite respected. I look at the MLM business the same way.In fact I have some very wealthy friends in MLM and have wonderful reputations in our town as throughout the world. Sometimes that tought for people to accept but I'm really happy for them. Even with the many failures I see many successes. But that's what life is about. Seems that in any business 20% of the people accomplish 80% of the production.Therefore, I believe anyone that is capable of success in one business is capable of making it in insurance , MLM's or any sales type business. The only problem's that exist are between the people that have failed. If only time could be spent learning and growing our minds in positive ways we could achieve so much example the energy of negative press converted to positive could could help so many. Your story is common as I have learned, as it seems that the meetings you refer to are not the secret to success in that business, but dealing with your own ability to build a business and get through the negatives that any business brings. Counting on others is tough and working with others even tougher, it really takes a special person. I do hope you develop some positive things in your life and find what you desire without hurting others along the way. Best to you,
At least you got to write a book (hopefully a best seller) and will get real residual income; maybe it will be the start of a good career. I think the vast majority of people are just not cut out be the type of successful person portrayed as amway emeralds and diamonds. But they get so brainwashed that they actually believe they will be able to do it, and eventually accept their place in their organization just to perpetuate the successful ones. They proclaim that it doesn't matter whether or not they make money, it's jsut important that they are in amway. If someone dares to approach them about another business, they freeze up, get very defensive, unrealistic and very often just downright nasty. This includes some very high-earning professionals and businesspersons. I never could understand how they could get like that, but I think they have a special need in their lives to belong to something likes this. Do the Devos and VanAndel families really believe that they're doing the right thing. They claim they're so religious but I can't understand how they believe it when so many innocent people get hurt in their business. Practically speaking, I know it would be very hard for them to change the system to make it more equitable, not to mention the financial factor, but they have been fortunate enough to reap so many benefits, one would think that their consciences would bother them. Maybe then people wouldn't have such a negative perception of their company. Good luck with your new ventures. Regards,
This is a great site! I have never heard of Quixtar until I went to one of their meetings today. A guy from my church told me about this meeting. I brought my Dad with since he is retired and looking for a way to make some extra dollars (my Dad is 68 years old, has heart problems and is still helping my brother do roofing). The hosts were very nice and invited me and my Dad to become IBO's. It still sounds pretty fishy to me. It sounds like one of those pyramid deals. After reading your site and others I don't think I'll give them $99.
I saw you had a reference to excel do you have any articles on Excel. I was called on what a wonderful opportunity it is and I cant find much about it . Thanks
i was on your site and there was something on there about primerica but there was no data available. I am in the process of thinking about joining this company, could you tell me if there is anything wrong with this company before I spend my hard earned dollars to go to class to join this company? Any information you could give me would be greatly appreciated. Thank You,
Yes ... the rules are not enforced by the Britt "leaders" or by Amway. As you know I'm still a distributor and I'm getting pv checks every month even though I rarely order anything. The checks always say that by accepting the money you agree that you are following the 70/30 rule and the 50pv customer rule. Nobody has ever checked to see if we are following these rules.... nobody upline or from Amway/Quixtar.
Just wanted to drop you a note and say that I read your book "Behind the smoke and mirrors" and thought it was excellent. I have been approached several times now and it was because of the Amway the Untold story sight that I didn't join. My dad is in ScAmway now and I wish that he would read your book but I know that he will not. You explained the PV BV system really well and even my dad can't explain that to me! Personally, I think that Amway, the way it is now, is closer to a cult than anything else, if it is not already. (the religion of greed) The thing that is so sad to me is that I grew up with Amway all around me, having grown up in Grand Rapids Michigan. I went to Calvin College, a school heavily subsidized by the DeVoss's and VanAndels, and spent my honeymoon at the Amway Grand. Do you really think that the head families know what is going on and encourage it? is so sad to me to think that purported Christians would be that deceitful. Thanks for all the work that you do, maybe it will help somebody who is on the fence to see the real truth!
Sent you an email over a month ago with facts about the corporation. Stock reports and related info but I never heard back I wonder why. Plus you use numbers that are not correct about Quixtar either not all Amway IBO's switched to Quixtar. I have plenty of people that stayed just Amway IBO's. So you may want to change you figures unless it's true what people are saying about you?
Hi! I was dragged to a Primerica meeting tonight...I fully recognize the whole thing as a load of crap...but the friend who's taken this up as her new 'job' is thrilled with the autonomy it offers...I haven't found much info on Primerica online...do you know of any sites out there? I'd like to be able to bring her some info to review, so she can at least make an informed descision. I hate to bug you, but your site was the BEST regarding MLM...I thought maybe you could help. Either way, thanks...and I really like the site that you've created...ignore the drones. :) Re: MLM Dear Madam, I read your story with considerable interest and I am very sorry to hear of your very sad experience. I have joined only one MLM company and have not experienced the same negative results that you have. I suppose that there is good and bad in everything. I appreciate you sharing your story. I hope this will continue to send a message to those companies that prey on individuals merely for profit and will clean up their business practices accordingly. Thank you again. Re: Amway I looked at your mirror of Jeff Probandt's site. When I first saw his site a couple of years ago, (when it was the Anti-Anti-Amway site) I Was absolutely amazed at some of the information he was publishing. It proved everything that all the anti-amway sites were espousing. My site has a link to your site. You have explained the process much better than I could. I didn't get the full court press the way you did, which is probably because we lived 900 miles away from our upline. We did the phone calls with the "Diamond" telling us that he was a millionaire and able to do whatever he wanted. Baugh. There is still the touchy subject of in-laws. Since they are our upline. After saying no to the "standing order" a dozen times or more, my brother-in-law asked my wife if she joined just to placate him. When she said yes, he said "why did you do that?" Mindless. I have tried multiple times to reeducate them on financial matters. They take the "speakers" word as gospel. They claimed that inflation was 12% or more cause the accountant that talked to them told them so. They don't bother to read a newspaper, which would tell them that inflation is somewhere between 1 and 4 percent. But I go on. Thanks again. I hope more people are helped by reading sites like yours.
Someone that works at the hospital I go to intentionally went in to my records and gave the information out to a third party that I am not even related to. They gave the information to my husbands ex-girlfriend. Can I do anything?? Re: Equinox Hey,,, I am someone that likes to invest. I participated in a company by the name of Equinox underneath my brother-in-law to help him grow in the business,,and if possible make money for myself. Well,,lets just say we were not successful and my brother-in-law lost money, but had plenty of equinox products. I realize the only way to become successful in a business like quixtar or equinox is to be sharp and greedy...Well,,my friend has just signed up with quixtar and wants to see if i could be interested...so of course i am trying to do research on the company. What are some things i should tell my friend? Thank You, |
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