The following posts have been reprinted in their entirety from posts e-mailed by readers of this website, except that headers, names and locations have been removed. These posts express the opinions and experiences of their authors, and this site publisher makes no representations about them in any way whatsoever.

Re: Amway/Quixtar

A while ago, I sent you an e-mail about my feelings about Amway. This was about the time that Quixtar opened, and it was very frustrating because we couldn't order anything. Everything was so messed up with the site. We had sponsored 5 people and had one we needed to register ( but couldn't , because of the troubles Quixtar was experiencing), and I was so embarassed about the inability to get into the site, that we finally lost the one potential distributor. I've never called the other ones to ask what kind of "success" they were having, either, so they might have jumped ship for all I know. From our upline we heard things like, The 1st day, 20,000,000 people tried to get onto the site and it blew things up. Now, they have supposedly added 24 additional servers, and my husband were actually able to order something. Don't get me wrong, there were lots of hurdles to get over, and lots of glitches, too. Like checking our shopping cart, and finding other items that we had never ordered that we had to delete (several thousands of dollars worth--the pv was nice, but the bill would have been no fun to pay), and once we deleted those,something else would pop up in their place. And ordering one of something, and finding it registered two. And on and on. Supposedly, all this is cleared up now. Since I've never shopped online before, and was so frustrated, I decided to try ordering something from Amazon.com, just to see if there were glitches there, too. Nope, not a one. It was so Easy, that I knew if Quixtar could work out their "bugs" , it could be an awesome experience. So, I'm waiting before making a final judgment. I told my husband, though, that I won't go to anymore functions, or listen to tapes. He was angry with me, but has calmed down somewhat. I asked him if we could get off standing order, and he didn't want to. I honored his decision, because right now, I'm not working at a paying job, so it's his money that's being wasted. And guess what?!? Not one of the darn tapes has been listened to by him. He didn't listen to them faithfully before we had the argument about standing order, and now he doesn't listen at all. So $6.00 a week just keeps getting wasted. It's exasperating, but I have this feeling he'll wake up one of these days. Oh well, this was longer than I had intended. I'm glad I have someone to share this with, because I've learned to admire my upline's wife for many reasons, and can say we're friends to a point, but she's gung-ho Amway and always defends them to the hilt. She would have a pat answer for any of my objections, and although I now know for sure she's wrong, I wouldn't want to argue with her, and cause friction. Well, gotta go. Maybe I'll e-mail you again someday. Sincerely,

Dear Madam/Sir. Are the assemblies of God related in any way withAMWAY? If yes,then could you please enlighten me of the nature of that connection especially in Australia,(Sutherland.NSW.),because our Daughter and her whole family recently joined the Assemblies of God to much of our consternation.I read all the MLM- Survivor's Home Page,and I heard that particular religious Organisation is somehow "controlled by AMWAY. Thank you very much for your kind assistance.Kind Regards,

I have signed up for a MLM thing that actually seems to be working, I was wondering if you've had any bad reports on Alladvantage? Can they gather information off of my computer opr are they just interested in me viewing ads like they say. I have also had people try and sign me up for Quixtar saying you can get books and other things for 10% off the internet price of sites like Amazon, this can't be true since Amazon.com probably doesn't even have a 10% margin after all is said and done. I'm glad I've found your site I will now respond with that to all Qstar mailings

The Fort worth Star telegram just wrote an article about Mary Lou and the MLM we work with, Enrich. To read the story go to

http://www.star-telegram.com/news/doc/1047/2:PROFILE/2:PROFILE122699.html

Certainly, I'll be glad to answer any questions. I don't want other women to go through my ordeal if I can possibly help it. I think maybe no one has written about this company yet simply because they blame themselves for failing in business rather than admitting they were scammed. For the next 6 weeks I'll be away from work (here) so please direct future emails to my home email address: **

Sincerely yours,

Part II

Hi, this is * again writing from home instead of work. (Please delete my name when you post this.) After looking at more of what others had to say about Amway and other MLMs, I can tell you how Mary Kay compares to them. It's true, as one person wrote in, that you buy things directly from the company and that payments and commissions come directly from them. This is part of how they stay legal and while they may technically not be an MLM in terms of the law because of this (I don't know for sure), the practical reality to the recruit is that there's not much difference! It turns out to have the same effect on the person who's been suckered. Working for a company with no base pay, no benefits, having to pay THEM through various means to belong. That's an MLM thing. They say you're like an independent contractor and are your own boss. But if you really work for yourself then why do you have to follow all kinds of ridiculous rules? Like the dresses only for women, no pants thing. Furthermore you are encouraged to always wear hose and heels. (Hello, yeast infections and bunions!) Did you know that only recently have women who work in the plants producing Mary Kay makeup been allowed to wear PANTS, for safety on the factory floor? They used to make them wear dresses! For working in a factory! In no other part of their corporate organization are women allowed to wear pants, still. HOW STUPID. (If you wonder where I got all this info, I pried it out of my Director when I was a Mary Kay consultant.) And now that they no longer test on animals, guess how they test? On humans. The Directors are the guinea pigs for new cosmetics. Not that those two things are about MLMs in particular. They are just things that make me queasy. But the loss of friends, strife in the family, loss of personal free time and the damage to legitimate business contacts is just the same as Amway. I know a woman who got written up at work for her Mary Kay recruiting and sales activities that she was doing on work time. And the "counseling," though MK doesn't call it that. Your director is always there to answer questions for you. In other words she provides rationalizations for whatever sleazy tactic they're pushing and she encourages you to buy more makeup, while buttering you up all along. And what Amway calls "claiming it", Mary Kay calls "fake it till you make it." I think we've already been over the tapes, books and conventions. You pay the company. And the so-called Christian element is there as well. Um, hello, doesn't Christianity denounce greed? Aren't you supposed to treat others the way you want to be treated? Didn't Jesus throw the money lenders out of the temple? I'm not religious, but I think this is pretty basic knowledge. I was pretty lucky not to lose any friends over this which is because I did not push. I offered something, products or recruitment, once. If they said no I never tried again. I saw what was happening to other consultants and on some level I knew that it wasn't worth it. The result is that I never recruited anybody but this is good because now no one can say that I scammed them. I only sold them cosmetics and showed them application techniques. But outside of friends, I went through the hell of cold calling and all that. Most humiliating. It made me feel like a sleazy telemarketer. And all but one of those who made appointments that way stood me up anyhow! It makes me sick to think of all the time I could have spent on other pursuits that I wasted doing something I hated. It's a good thing I don't have kids. Wherever you go, whatever you do, you are supposed to sell and recruit while there. Going to the grocery store? Hit up the cashier! Going on vacation? Bug people on the beach! Going home for Christmas? Pressure your family! And if you don't you feel guilty, but if you do you feel like a jerk. You can't win. I think psychologists call this cognitive dissonance, behavior opposed to your beliefs. But Mary Kay has a much "softer" technique than Amway and those others. They do put up a good front. Nobody tells you that you should divorce your spouse if they don't like what you do, it's never that harsh. They're very subtle, but they achieve the effect all the same. I think this may have to do with the fact that pretty much the entire sales force is comprised of women, whereas Amway seems to be male dominated. They use flattery and manipulation instead of threats and put-downs. They refer to other cosmetics as "junk" makeup, that's the extent of any negative language. Final thought: They say they're the number one selling brand of skin care. Is this claim based on sales from consultants to customers, or sales from the company to hapless consultants? Do they subtract out product returns from consultants who are quitting? Hmmm. I'll give you three guesses and the first two don't count!

Why is the primerica site not available? A threatened lawsuit?? I worked very briefly for them and only left because I moved and couldn't afford the licensee in a new state. It is only in hindsight that I look at a few of the things I experienced and question them. My upline told me they had strict controls against people trying to videotape things at the convention because competitors had tried in the past to take things said at the convention out of context to try to smear primerica. Now I wonder if the reason was also so they could tell us anything they want at the convention and not be held accountable. I was at the National Convention in St. Louis in 1996. Someone told a story of a respected doctor from California who ran her own clinic who had a million dollars in several banks but didn't think she had enough money to retire. She had saved her whole life but had all her money in savings accounts. She had the money in several banks because of the 100,000 dollar limit on insured deposits. Most of the banks, we were told, paid her very little interest on her money, and some of them actually charged her to keep her money in the bank. Of course the story had a happy ending with the PFS agent telling her about the magic of compound interest and setting her up with a plan where she could put her million into some type of safe investment and retire comfortably. The person also told the story of driving the doctor around to all of her banks to withdraw her money. He said her felt like the guy in Driving Miss Daisy. Have you heard this story from any ex primerica people? I have a few others to tell but this one was from the convention so I know thousands heard it.

Do you consider MaryKay to be a problem organization. I looked online and couldn't find any negative mail about it. I have asked alot of people I know and had no negative talk about Marykay (cosmetics). I'd rather you not ID my email on line if you post this note and answer. Thanks.......curious (PS I did Amway for awhile, but got so much negative feedback from people, I dropped it. I didn't want to be associated with a negative company.)

I am giving up on Quixtar after only a few months. When I signed up as a Quixtar IBO, I thought that I was getting my own internet business and, with the explosion in e-commerce, this was the perfect opportunity to get onto the leading edge of the next wave. However, as anyone who spends even a minimum amount of time on the internet can see, Quixtar is designed to fail as a retail buinsess. Customers look for three things from their suppliers: 1) Quality. I have no quarrel with the quality of the products and Amway/Quixtar sells. 2) Value. This has already been beat to death, but most Amway produced and supplied products are overpriced in comparion to comparable products that are readily available from other suppliers. 3) Convenience. It's almost as if Quixtar deliberately made it as difficult as possible for someone to shop from their store. In order to go into the Quixtar site, you must have a 'secret password' which you must obtain from an IBO. IBOs are probibited from posting their 'secret password' on the internet. Furthermore, IBOs are also forbidden from using search engines, which is the power of the internet, from promoting their business. You can "succeed" in Quixtar the same way that you "succeed" in Amway. Which is by 1) sponsoring other people, and 2) buying from yourself. I'll just have to make my fortune another way.

Congratulations on a fascinating web site! Though I am a successful professional, through the years I have dabbled in some multi-level ventures such as Amway and Excel with really no results. However, since I really didn't get too involved with any of them, it was no big deal. The profound experience I had with multi-level was with Herbalife.

My former neighbor got involved with them. She has a very direct and pushy way about her and the next thing I know she had invited me to attend an "opportunity meeting." That's where these people get up and share their story about how much weight they've lost, how great they feel and/or how much money they've made. Their stories are accompanied by music, applause, and the occassional tear jerking story about how wonderful Herbalife is. The next thing I knew my neighbor was convincing me to sign up as a distributor, purchase a kit, etc. Then she and her upline got me in on a three-way phone conversation, which is really a civilized was of saying "two against one!" They convinced me that the only way to be successful in the business was to go in as a "Supervisor." That means buying nearly $3000 worth of product at a 50% "discount" so you make your profit with resale (provided you sell it!). I was too blind to realize that their products very vastly overinflated in price, discount or no discount, and much more expensive than what you could find in any good health food store. As an incentive to purchase this product, I was invited to attend a "Superstar Weekend" about an hour away. They told me that they would pay for my hotel room if I placed a Supervisor order. So I did and I went to the Superstar Weekend. Well, my paid for hotel room was actually shared with two other males and two females (I had the cot). What a joke, I felt like like a high school kid. When I arrived home from the weekend, my order of products had arrived and my home was taken over by boxes and boxes of products.

My neighbor was also pushing me to go to all of the opportunity meetings and sales trainings and to bring people with me to these events so they too could discover this "great opportunity" and "get in on the ground floor." I soon realized that you were expected to pay to attend the opportunity meetings and the trainings. Now, how many worthwhile companies would require you to pay for a training program to sell their products, especially after you bought nearly $3000 worth of product yourself?!

She was constantly after me to go to all the trainings at $40 a pop and bring people with me to these trainings. And...at the trainings they pressure you into buying additional tickets to the next training, so you feel compelled to bring people! She was oblivious to the fact that I had a full time job while all she did was Herbalife. Over the next 7-8 months or so, I went to numerous trainings and actually sold about $1500 of product. But my neighbor wanted more. Since I lived upstairs, she could hear when I got home, so she would call up and ask "How many people did you talk to today?" (about the business, products, etc) or...How many people did you invite to the training?" It got so bad that I was actually tiptoeing around in my own home hoping she wouldn't hear me and call me on the phone. A few months later, I decided to sell my place and mover across town and that was the primary reason!

Then, they have these "Leadership Weekends" at various times throughout the year held in places like Miami. You can "qualify" to go if you sell a certain amount of product over a certain period of time. They make it out to be that going to these weekends is an honor and everyone should do everything they can to try and qualify. What it actually means is that you've earned the right to pay your own way to go to Miami! And, once you're there, you pay all your expenses! The sad thing is that many distributors actually believe the company is doing them a tremendous favor and they fail to see the reality of the company profiting at the distributor's expense.

Then last year, Mark Hughes, the company founder came to town. He "gave up his weekend so he could share his knowledge with the Herbalife distributors so they too, could realize their dreams." Well, he actually gave up his weekend by having the distributors pay $50 in advance and $75 at the door to hear him speak. I understand that 4000 people attended. That translates into over $200,000. Now, who's kidding who here?!

I realize I was a soft touch for this person and just should have said "No" before I got in so deep. I have since resigned as a distributor and threw out many boxes of product. I was sick of seeing all those boxes!!

With my experience, however, it is easy to see how people can really get suckered into these multi-level scams by the forceful and obsessive distributors who will stop at nothing in search of the "dream." Now, when I see all those "Diet Magic" or "Work at Home" signs plastered on our phone poles or the "Lose Weight Now" signs in the supermaket, I want to rip them down! And, once spring comes to these parts...I will!

Thanks for reading this and good luck to all!

I became involved in my first MLM over 2 years ago and am some what sorry I did. Reason: MLM has its good side and it also has its bad side. Here are some tips that might keep you from making the same mistake I did. 1. Never sign up and become involved in a MLM without doing the following. A. Go to several meetings and talk to the people there and find how they are doing as far as signing up people. Find out the success of the products involved. B. Find out if your upline has a sincere desire to see thoes in his downline succeed or if he is just interrested in signing up people and commited to seeing them succeed. Many are only interrested in singing you up and helping you if you are a self starter. If you are slow to start you get left out as many are only going to help a fast worker. C.If a company say or hint or proclaim they are a CHRISTIAN organization, BEWARE. Their are a lot of MLM'ers that use CHRISTIANITY to bolster their business status. D. Many companies have more than one business giong. They have a service or product for you to promote but they also demand you buy all promotional materials from them. You are not allowed to make your own promotional materials. E. Find out if you can make your own advertisments to promote your business via the different media. Radio, Television and printed media. If you can't then how are you going to promote your business. F. Read the contract three or four times and mark the items you need more information on. DON'T join any MLM untill you are sure you have all the information you need to make a choice of joining or not joining. It is important to remember that about 5% of thoes who join a MLM company ever recover their investment much less show a viable profit. I joined to help my retirement be more enjoyable. After two plus years I have accomplished little. I have not helped my income any and I have helped the company in the area of $3000.00. My upline has deserted me and many others. He has proceded to become a presential rank and is headed for the next of four levels. When He gets to the top I feel he will probably try to become president of the company, Remember that if it sounds like a gold mine, most find a lot of lead instead of gold. Also remember that a fool and his money are soon parted. I was told many years ago that MLM is 90% B.S. and 10% truth. I wish I had listened . Sincerely,

Hey,

I am an amway distributor and i was wondering about a few things. I am in the great worldwide dreambuilders group and they tell me that they dont make money on tapes. Do they or dont they???? After reading all of the "hate" letters I am thinking that they might. So either they are lying to me or there are alot of angry anit amway people in this world. Please let me know!

Also I know Bill Britt, Ron Puryear, Brad Duncan, Greg Duncan, Jimmy Head, Brad Wilgomant, Toshi Tabu, Dave Severn...You may or may not have heard of these guys. They are all big diamonds in world wide dream builders. They claim to be great christian men, good husbands, finacially independent. I am just a small distributor so I dont know to much of what goes on around the big dogs, please enlighten me!!! Thanks for your time and I look forward to hearing from you!

Part II

Thank you very much for the prompt response to my last email. I still have a few more questions. 1. When is one supposed to hear about this extra money made through tools? At direct level or even higher? 2. How much money is made by the diamonds/emaralds off of tools? 3. Isn't it illegal to make money off tools, or because they are doing it through so called shares of the company that makes it legal? Thanks so much for taking the time to respond so thoroughly. I am on the verge of making my voice heard soon. I hope to hear from you soon.

Hi there, I got your email address in one sent to me from enhance our lives. It contained information in Spanish, which was hard for me to read. Anyway your address was there and I was interested in your address. Are you in Melaleuca? Obviously you have been in some others that were not too profitable. What were they and why would you have considered them scamz? How are you doing with the one you are in now, if in fact you are in one. I'd like the opportunity to dialogue with you. I'm a retired teacher, living in Cambridge Ontario, Canada and trying to work Melaleuca full time, but frustrated at the lack of contacts or people that get in and then drop out (it's too expensive). Anyway, hoping to hear from you.

Part II

I looked at your website and was quite interested in what I read. Boy there really are a lot of people who have been beat up by Amway. I wonder how they (Amway) manage to keep going. They are such a large corporation and are generating so much revenue. I know a chap in our church who is really trying hard to make it go but I don't know if he is having much success. There are a lot of people that have been beat up by Amway, Nuskin, Herbalife and many others who are coming over to Melaleuca. And they have found much success. I love the integrity of this company and their upfrontness. Their business meetings are free and contain no hype. They are mostly product based. They do sell some business tapes, not a lot but at very cheap prices. Melaleuca is not an MLM. None of us are distributers, just customers. Probably 85% of the people are not business builders and are never pressured to be. I have customers that I have enrolled who have been using the products now for 3,4 and 5 years. I would be interested in having your opinion on this company, since you have had some experience in another company, which I have never had. As a retired schoolteacher, I'm trying to make a bit of a niche in the home based business industry. Thanks for taking the time to answer my original letter and put me in touch with the website, sincerely,

Part III

thanks for the information. I'd like to get those books. I'm not sure what you mean by email posts though. Is this going to be information that will give positive feedback? Have you checked out the Melaleuca website? You seem to be very knowledgeable in these areas. I'd be interested in getting your opinion. Thanks,

Hi, I'm writing from Australia and have almost instantly seen through the smoke screen of Quixtar AKA Amway. However my best friend has not and I was wondering if you know anything about A2K, which from my understanding is the next thing to come from Amway. My friend tells me that it will launch in Australia in April sometime and it will be totally revolutionary??. My friend is trapped up in all the pretend $$$ of employing IBO (independent business owners) to do the dirty work., What should I do in helping him see the light?? Your site has been great and I have printed almost everything.

I don't know exactly what my questions are. I just joined equinox last week and went to a basic building blocks this past weekend. On Saturday night I came home so excited and there was somebody at my house who had done Equinox a few years ago. He had had a bad experience and that really got me down. Then I went back on Sunday, and I was convinced that it could work for me. I guess now I am doing my own research about Equinox to get the whole picture because they will never say anything negative about the company. I guess I am trying to figure out exactly what it is I want to do. Should I continue or not? When I am in the office and talking to people it seems as if I can do it. But then I come home and I think about it and realize that I don't agree with everything that they say to me. The thing that bothers me the most about all of this is that if you disagree with something that they say or say that it is a pyramid, they put you in front of the Bill Gouldd and then he addresses the objections that you have and calls them stupid. So i guess i feel lost because if i come home and talk about certain things people will tell me not to do it and then if i go to the office and i verbalize my objections, i feel stupid. i guess i want to talk to somebody who has already done it and has an insiders point of view but not related to me. You can email me at *. I have invited some friends and family to come in and check it out to see if this is really something i should get involved in. But with all the negative about equinox, i am not sure if i want to promote it and get my friends into something that i may regret later.

To whom it may concern, My name is Rodrigue Telfort and I'm an Amway IBO. The ordering system has changed so I have tried to order from Personal Shopper which is an Amway catalog on Quixtar and never could find what I needed. My question is how do I use Quixtar to order my Amway products? I should also mention that it is my first time using Quixtar so I don't fully comprehend how Quixtar works. I'm hopping that you have an answer to my question, my e-mail address is *, please send some information on how to make my orders. Thank you for corporation. Truthfully yours, Amway IBO

Dear Sir Or Madam,

I was recently asked to join a MLM company by the name of Omegatrend it is an Australian based company,any imfomation whether it be positive or negative would be greatly appreciated,thanking you.

I am writing about a "new" scam in Ohio that I think needs some attention. Our beloved pastor of eight years got involved in Purchase Plus buyers club. He began leading area meetings. He also began approaching congregation members to join the "opportunity". By getting other couples involved, he then didn't have to approach the congregation directly himself. the worst thing about this club is that he and his associates within the church took out large amounts of debt on credit cards and encourages others to do the same--it absolutely goes against biblical principals. When the district superintendent found out what was going on, the pastor chose to resign rather than give up this side business. I understand some churches are actually ENSORSING this business, saying that it will benefit the church because the pastor and staff can be self-supporting and not have to take a salary from the church anymore! Please let people know what is going on!!

P.S. I was told that the CEO of purchase plus--Gene Arnold-- had filed bankruptcy exactly seven years ago last month on another business he had started. He could now be elligible to file bankruptcy again and leave everyone high and dry and in big debt!!

Just wanted to say I saw your MLM Survivors Club page and it's great! I've joined in too (in case you haven't noticed). I've totally disconnected myself from the Amway/Quixtar association (did not renew for this year; no longer on Amvox, etc). The only real "connection" I have is the Water Treatment System I purchased back in 1996, the Amway Visa card, and the Amway/MCI long distance. Yeah, I saw the article in the business page in the Houston Chronicle the other day about the layoffs at the corporation. One would thought Quixtar (with all of the hype that came before its launch) would increase the business activity at corporate headquarters. Guess the opposite happened. I still plan to give you my story of being in "the business" from '96 - '99. Be on the lookout for it.

Remember, the truth will set you free!

AMEN!!!!!!!! I am a poor college student majoring in Communications with a PR focus. I happened to be looking over the classifieds one night and the line 'PR PERSONALITY' caught my eye. I was very hesitant as PR obviously requires a degree, but I thought, what the heck? So I called on it, well the woman I talked to basically told me that I would be giving seminars and that kind of stuff since I had had so many public speaking classes. Well, I went into the interview and there were twenty other people in my interview. Tell me how that works? Well, after everyone left the 'briefing session' I was hurrying to walk out the door and the woman caught me and pretty much talked my ear off for another three hours. UGHH!! When all was said and done she told me she wanted me to be a ' team captain' and well, that just didn't fly. I thought if the company is as well as established as they say they are then why do they need a 'team captain' and a 'manager' it just doesn't flow well. Its too staged. So I guess what I'm really getting at is that its all such false advertising. Its frustrating that people would be that dishonest. I'm just glad that I was able to see through it. Thanks for your site, it confirmed my suspicions.

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