The following posts have been reprinted in their entirety from posts e-mailed by readers of this website, except that headers, names and locations have been removed. These posts express the opinions and experiences of their authors, and this site publisher makes no representations about them in any way whatsoever.

I have some friends who are getting deeply involved. Any info you could give me about acn would be appreciated.

I wasn't talking about Amway, one of the worst producers of cheap products in the world.

Take for example NU Skin products. They are extremely high quality. In fact you couldn't even produce them and sell them in a store and make a profit because so much of the mark up has been put in to devoloping and making the product. I campared Nu Skin with Lancome and Estee Lauder and any other brand out there, non of which could even compare based on their ingredients. Nu Skin makes alot more products no one could make because it's too expencive to develop and produce without a large distubitor force already in place. No wonder the company has grown in only seventeen years from 0 to two billion in sales per year. Also has it created more millionairs than any other MLM company in the world. Think about that. Amway has far more distibutors but only a hand full of people who can claim to have made milions selling products. Most of them have made money with selling sales aids something Nu Skin sells to their distr. for cost as sales aids are not commissionable and not seposed to be.

There is a lot I can tell you about that company that will change your ideas about MLM. If you feel like talking to me about it feel free to call me at ** Do not worry, I will not try to recruit you. My point is that it's impsible to make a cutting edge product and sell it through stores for a compatable price. MLM is that case the only way. Unfortunately only a couple of companys have understood not to screw with the MLM phenominon.

I recently read a book that I thought might make a good addition to the book corner on your website. The book is "Debt-Proof Living" by Mary Hunt. She tells the story of falling $100,000 in unsecured debt(credit card and refinancing), and how she finally paid it all back and now lives within her means.

The reason I found this book so interesting is that she talks briefly about how when she and her husband started to slide deeply into debt, she pressured him to quit his job with a bank and start their own "business" like some wealthy "friends" they had just met had. I'm sure this is MLM, because everything about these people looks like Amway--the flashy, showy condo and cars, etc. The husband did quit his job, and the nightmare began. The "friends" disappeared, and so did all the money.

In any case, it's a small part of the book, but the financial advice is practical and anyone can do it. I know there are a lot of people who have maxed out credit cards because of the promises of MLMs. This book offers real hope of getting out of debt and staying that way forever.

I don't have any connection with the book or author, but I thought it was great, and I wondered if it might help some people.

It is offered through Amazon. You can read some readers' comments there.

Thanks, Ruth. I know your site keeps you busy, but it's obviously helping a lot of people make right decisions.

I like your site, and it is very informative.

I am not your average Quixtar dealer. What I do is host, design and promote web sites. The only expense that I have occurred is to buy a domain name and design a simple site. Also, I put up 100,000 banners on my sites promoting my IBO number. Then I noticed that all sites with Quixtar in their name were closed down. It was time to research this problem. That is when I found your site and others. Some talked about moving to Spree.com. I new what was coming so I diversified my site with Spree.com and others. Attached is the letter that I was expecting to get from Quixtar.

I also researched Spree.com. Ever person and his uncle has a Spree site including ones with Spree in their name.

Subject: Website Violation - Suspension Notice Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 08:43:26 -0500 From: Rules_Administration@quixtar.com To: webmaster@ontarioguide.com

RE:http://shop-quixtar.com

Recently, the Corporation learned of the above referenced web site which uses our trademark in the url, as well as, appears to be prospecting for interested individuals to become involved with the Quixtar opportunity. While we appreciate the enthusiasm regarding the interest in the business model, unfortunately, your web site is at odds with the Rules of Conduct, specifically, Rule 8 and 9 of the Rules of Conduct.

Allow us to clarify Rule 8, which states that distributors can not solicit participation in the Plan through computer communication networks including the Internet or any other means by which person-to-person contact by the sponsor with the prospect is not present. The Rules do permit IBOs to utilize the Internet to promote their business but it must be done so in accordance with the IBO Web Site Bulletin. Unfortunately, the Bulletin does not permit an IBO to have a prospecting web site unless it is pass code protected with the pass code being given in some type of one-to-one contract prior to the prospect visiting the site and the site must be content reviewed. Additionally, the Corporation, with the support of the Independent Business Owners Association International, has implemented a Zero Tolerance Policy for unauthorized prospecting web sites. Under this policy, IBO's with unauthorized web sites will be immediately suspended for a period of 6-months from any sponsoring activities.

Furthermore, it must be understood that Quixtar, Inc., our affiliates, and any of our Sister Companies will not allow the use of any of our trade names (company names, trademarks (product/service names), designs or symbols by any person, including a Quixtar or Amway-affiliated Independent Business Owner, without prior permission as stated in Rule 9 of the Rules of Conduct. Unfortunately, none of us has or will give permission to anyone to use our trade names, trademarks, designs or symbols in a manner that is likely to cause confusion as to the source of the web site, or the like. It is important to understand that we take very strong measures to protect our trade names, trademarks, designs or symbols from being used without our permission or in a manner that is likely to cause confusion as to their source. We believe that your domain name, http://shop-quixtar.com , can and does cause confusion in the market place. We are therefore, asking that you relinquish this domain name and not renew them in the future.

With this said, the above referenced site is not in compliance with the Rules of Conduct or Web Site Bulletin, therefore, it must be removed immediately and due to the implementation of the Zero Tolerance Policy, IBO # 1336228 has been suspended indefinitely. Suspension for this purpose means that IBO # 1136228 will not be permitted to personally sponsor others into the Business. Once we receive written confirmation that you understand and will comply with the Rules of Conduct, as well as, confirmation that you will relinquish and not renew your domain name, and your site has been removed, the suspension of IBO # will be reviewed.

In accordance with the Rules of Conduct, you have the right to appeal this decision to an informal conciliation. Should you decide to file an appeal, you must complete the attached form and return it to my attention within 30 days from the date of this letter.

Sincerely,

Beth Hines, Supervisor Rules Administration Business Conduct and Rules

(See attached file: Informal.doc)(See attached file: 17 - IBO Websites.doc)

First of all I don't show the plan yet.. I'm just looking at the Quixtar business and your web site. It's very interesting to talk with someone who has failed in an endeavor that you are thinking of taking. I played college b-ball (on the starting five four years). My high school coach told me that I could not make it. Of course, he had never played college b-ball. I made it, I excelled and I did what others were not willing to do. When I was recruited, the college coach never mentioned the two-a-day pracitices starting @ 6:00 am, he never mentioned the timed 3 mile runs at the beginning of every year, he never talked about the risk of injury, and he forgot to mention the added expense of going to school not covered by the scholarship. All he gave me was an opportunity to play. It was up to me to make the team, make the starting five and keep my grades up so I could stay eligible. From my point of view, all MLM companies offer a similar opportunity.

"When you go to a Tom Peters seminar, you're participating in an arm's length transaction. When you go to an upline seminar, you're not."

If I go to a seminar, I make the choice, I pay the ticket price, and I know it is an arms length transaction. No one forces anyone to do anything... just like a real estate transaction. You make it seem like you have no choice. You make it seem like you are under a spell. I don't think so...

Just looking at what you have said and the responses you have given, why not just admit you made a mistake at your attempt to be a business owner. I'll bet to this day you are still not a business owner...

Regarding making money off the sale of your book... give it away, don't charge, if it is you life's work... do it for the "cause". I still think it is the money.

"Well, it's not a "system," it's a website. You are free to visit or not. > Nobody forces you to visit it, or to come back to it again if you do visit".

You are right... "system" was a poor choice of words... however no one makes anyone follow a "system", it is your choice... Real estate has many systems, you choose whether or not to participate. It looks like Quixtar has a similar set up. By the way, your success in real estate is a direct reflection of the "system" you choose to follow.

I won't do a web site... I would not waste my time and lose money over it. BAD CHOICE if that is in fact what is happening.

I am now ready to make my decision regarding joining... gotta go.

have read and looked at your site from time to time over the last year or so and have found it a pretty good source of information on the direct selling business. I have been approached several times by another of these to good to be true companies called World Connect. They are promising everything from stock options to easy money on residuals. From what I have seen it looks like something your site may need to check into and give it a once over.

I cannot access the "Equinox Expose" link/page, and am very interested in doing so. It's homepage "knoxvilletoo" (spelling???)does not appear to link to it either. Please let me know how to figure this out!!

Part II

I just read your "story"...I've read that Bill Ghouldd (his name should be Bill GHOUL....as he is indeed a monster!!) anyway...Bill Ghouldd modeled his architectural plan for Equinox International from Amway, and from your story I can see why, as both Amway and Equinox both make a fortune off of their "indoctrinational" seminars. I am posting this message, however, in an attempt to learn how to recover if possible the money I lost in Equinox. The Federal Trade Commission has filed suit against them for $200 Million dollars and I need any information that anyone can give me regarding participating in that suit. "Order for intervention by individual plaintiffs entered on 11/15/99" is listed in the injunction, but how to discover how to go about this is another story. Perhaps someone can steer me in the right direction. Speaking of this lawsuit against Equinox, I would just like to say to Bill "Ghoul": "Go to jail. Go directly to Jail. Do not pass Go. Do not collect 200 (million) dollars."

I WANT YOU TO KNOW HOW INSIGHTFUL THE INFORMATION ON YOUR WEB SITE HAS BEEN I AM LOOKING AT AN OPPOTUNITY WITH AMERICAN COMMUNICATIONS NETWORK AND HAVE BEEN REASCHERING THE WEB FOR ANY NEGATIVE ARTICLES. DO YOU HAVE ANY FEEDBACK ON THE ACN CORP. YOU CAN WRITE ME BACK AT **

I just spent about an hour reviewing the commentary on MLMs. I don't know anything about owning my own business or Amway, so cannot comment. All I know is Equinox (which has existed 8 years).

Anyway, I've read some Equinox horror stories about losing money, required investments, et cetera... Here are the facts: Application Fee: NONE Product Investment: NONE required (and with a full refund if you do) Desk Rental: NONE required Training Fees: NONE (training is available FREE via satellite/conference calls)

Not convinced? Well, I quote the CEO Bill Gouldd (note that these are *not* exact quotes, but as best as I can remember...thanks): "Don't push people into Manager ($5000) orders... I didn't have money when I started, and neither do most of the people who come into our offices. Don't make people spend money they don't have!" and "Not everyone can be on desk. Not everyone can be full-time. So don't force them!!!... I love part-timers, because they have so much energy and enthusiasm, and they are proud to be a *part* of something bigger themselves. So, don't chase them away by forcing them to go full-time. Let them be what they want to be."

Now, does this sound like a man trying to rip people off? He encourages us NOT to force people into spending money. He encourages us NOT to force people to make huge investments. Hmmmm... sounds like someone going out of his way NOT to make money!

So, if you go into an Equinox office and some rep tries to pressure you to buy/ invest/ rent something, and you are not inclined to do so, tell him/her to stick it!

And now, let me complain about a "legitimate" company called Lockheed Martin, my former employer. I worked with this company for nearly three years designing, developing, and demonstrating a Next Generation Launcher system for the U.S. Navy. I worked hard to produce the best product possible, not just for the company, but also for the protection of 300 million American lives. I was and still am proud of my work.

Then one day I walked into my office and discovered my computer missing from my desk! I was told that they were scanning my machine for violations. (I was actually the second victim of this ploy.) After hours of twiddling my thumbs, I was finally called into my upline's office where I was told that the scan revealed 'playboy.com' in my history file. As a result, I was likely to be terminated. Fired!

Now, I freely admit that I visted the *front page* of playboy.com (no nudity on page one). It was nothing more than the usual fooling around/office humor. ("Hey look, playboy.com... Oh no, I might get fired.") Never in my wildest dreams did I think the Lockheed Martin management would be SO ANAL as to actually do it. So much for freedom of thought.

Making a long story short, I resigned from Lockheed Martin rather than risk the black mark of a firing on my record. I was on the bottom of the Lockheed Martin pyramid scheme and so had no options. :(

Can this be considered "failure"? Are Lockheed Martin and other DCC's (Defense Contractor Companies) scams? Is engineering a hopeless profession that everyone should avoid? Did I just waste *$50000* on a college education?!? Or was I just extremely unlucky in picking the wrong DCC?

Since I left, I have learned that other employees, previously promised "happiness and success with Lockheed Martin" are also on the verge of termination and/or resignation. So much for promises... so much for security...

Bottom line: It's like someone else said: The only way to ensure security is to be your own boss (i.e. start a business). You can't count on your employer to take care of you. Just ask anyone who's ever been fired or laid off. Since most people lack the capital to start a brand-new business venture, MLMs offer a cheap alternative. Either on your own or with an MLM, starting your own business is *not* for everyone... only about 3% have the ability to be self-employed... but it's worth a shot just to see if you can do it!

As I said, I don't know anything about running my own business. Nor am I familiar with other MLMs like Amway. Only Equinox. With Equinox...

Worst that can happen: You fail to succeed as a business person, lose some bucks, lose some time, and continue doing what you've been doing. No big deal.

Best: You achieve the American Dream of independence, freedom, wealth.

Anyway, there are my thoughts. People complain about losing money. So far, I've invested more money on my college degree ($50000) than I have with Equinox (~$1500). Which was the bigger scam? <smirk> Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing other people's replies. Take care...

[Unfortunately, the Federal Trade Commission doesn't agree with your estimation of Equinox.]

My "unpublished" info on Primerica was recently forced off the net. That's right... even before I had it up and ready for the public I was threatened with legal action and my service provide called and told me to remove this data. The even contacted my current employer and threatened them. Primerica did not like that I was getting ready to publish information that would help people make a more informed regarding joining Primerica.

I noticed that your site no longer has any info regarding Primerica... did you run into the same road block... legal action... that I did.

How can I help? I resigned March 11, 1999 after six years, three of which I was full time and making a living. I just want other folks to know a little bit more then just the hype before they join. I was and still am fairly bullish on what Primerica does and how it allows folks to enter the financial world.

Let me know what I can do to help,

I noticed some more posts I want to comment on. One person wrote: "he said he was a supervisor. I then asked how long he had been with the company and he proceeded to tell me 5 weeks. Now, math is not my forte, but I was told in the presentation that to reach manager, 2 months of 5K in sales was required and to reach supervisor, another 2 months of 5K ( or 10K, I don't recall now) was required. Hmmm....5 weeks and he was where it was "supposed" to take 4 months."

The answer is simple: You automatically jump from Rep to whatever you level you achieve. For example, if you do $20K in your first month, you jump from Rep to Director instantly, jumping directly over the intermediate positions. The peson you spoke to jumped directly from Rep to Supervisor by producing $15K sales volume in less than 2 months.

This person continues..."Buy the training guide, buy some product, etc., etc."

No investment required.

"I wasn't going to commit to anything and that thanks for wasting 2 hours of my day"

I once drove all the way to Houston, TX for a Compaq Computer interview. *40* hours round-trip! Waste of time? Yep. Not a company I want to work for, because I learned during the interview that the Compaq CEO was under investigation for false representation of profits. Oooops. Do I regret it? Nope. You need to interview if you want a job. Right?

"The "urine water", "light bulb", "Bianca flame thrower", all the tricks that I have read on your site were done."

Do you really want to drink toxic water? Or use lighter fluid for breath spray? Even if you think Equinox is a scam (which is cool with me), why would you want to continue poisoning your body? That makes no sense.

Next, someone else wrote: "Equinox won't even tell you anything about the ingredients in their products stating in meeting after meeting 'Do you go into McDonalds and ask what the ingredients are in a hamburger. All you have to know is that it works"

Equinox products have the ingredients listed on the bottle... just like every other manufacturer and as required by law. Why didn't you just read the label? :-)

And finally, a customer asks, "...one of their products releives my father of serious arthiritis pain. Can you please help me get my hands on as much of this product as possible as they obviously will not be making it any more?"

Sounds like Structural and/or Skeletal Support. Assuming you have not already bought some, you can contact me via phone ** or email. However, if the webmaster censors that info, then go to http://www.equinoxinternational.com

[The above-referenced website now has only legal information from the court-appointed receiver.]

I have received messages telling me to log on to MarkerMan but never can. What is the real story. What is MarkerMan and do you know how to log on to see their site Thanks I lnow this maybe a little different message, but thought you would be the right folks to get the info from. Caio! for Now

Here's a book you might want to add to your bookstore: Think and Grow Rich. This book is the result from a study commissioned by millionaire Andrew Carnegie. This book is a worthwhile read for *anyone* whether involved in MLM, self-employed, or a job-holder.

To whom it may concern,

Currently I am a Quixtar IBO ~ I was involved with the Amway corporation as a distributor from May of '98 until Sept. 1 ' 99 when Quixtar I joined Quixtar.com.

I've read through your scam mlm survivors pages specifically to be more relatable to prospects who have had a bad experience with MLM's in the past. I found a lot of information on your site. However, mostly perspective.

Quixtar, in my opinion, which may differ from yours ~ is an internet shopping company that also offers an opportunity to earn additional income. Whether 99.9% of IBO's make it to silver direct level or not, it is an equal opportunity for all.

In my understanding, a lot of people join MLM's and discontinue for their own reasons. It is also my experience through self-action, and observation that life can sometimes get discouraging. Sometimes, to the point where we may even quit certain things.

While I admire your enthusiasm at calling yourself "survivors" ~ I will remain strong and continue succeeding. Not just in Quixtar ~ In life itself.

This kinda reminds me of parenthood ~ frustrating times with children. Imagine quitting on them because they may be doing something you like or dislike, that isn't illegal at all. I don't mean to sound critical, and I've reviewed all of your terms before Emailing you ~ but you should understand, not everyone's going to agree with you. You're no different than MLM company's. You, like them, are publishing your opportunity to free yourself in a certain way. Be it financially, or in your case ~ by survival. Equal opportunity .. how ironic.

You can lure away a few vulnerable people ~ but you'll never dismay my belief. I am succeeding doing something great with my life rather than complaining about what I see other people doing with theirs. You all might wanna try not to be so critical and maybe reapply the money you spend on sites like this and be more helpful to those "less fortunate". Wouldn't that be more charitable?

You say that less than 99% of all IBO's go direct. You're probably right. Did you know that 100% of those who go Diamond donate money to charity?

I don't see quitters as less fortunate.. I see them simply, as quitters. In my opinion. Gluck with your multi-level-survivors (-:

Sincerely,

I recently sat down with a gentleman who was interested in me and make an appointment with me at my home for me to look at his business.

It is an Internet shopping software called "Whats Happing". It looks alot like Amyway is involved. What can you tell me about this business.

Read Previous E-Mail Comments

Read Next Comments

You are Survivor #

to read visitor E-mails on this site since January 1, 2000.

Home Send E-Mail Read E-Mail Links Read Articles Visit Book Corner