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The following posts have been reprinted in their entirety from posts e-mailed by readers of this website, except that headers, names and locations have been removed. These posts express the opinions and experiences of their authors, and this site publisher makes no representations about them in any way whatsoever.

Dear Sir(s)/Ma'am(s):

I just felt really prompted to drop you a line to say "Thank You" for your site and information, specifically MLM and Equinox. I read "One Man's Story" and could envision those things happening to a lot of people. I had answered an ad in the "Help Wanted" classifieds and had went as far as setting thorough the first presentation. The reps started to get a little "over zealous" so after I got home I said to myself "let me do just a little research." That's when I came across your site.

You guys are doing a "good thing," and those who do "good things" deserve all the support they can get. I know that in life we have to take some chances to get ahead, but those chances should be based on the cards we can "see" in our hands. Sadly some organizations do not "deal" from all available cards.

I am in retail sales myself, but my personal line is fixed, my integrity is everything to me, it can't be sold. If I get financially independent it will be because my products are good, my company stands behind them (the products) and me, and I treat my customers with all the respect and honesty they deserve.

I apologize for "going on" thank you for indulging me. Thank you again for helping people make wise decisions.

Sincerely,

Re: Amway/Quixtar

Dear Ruth,

I understand your concerns. As far as working for your Diamond, I believe it is against the Amway rules of conduct to work for your upline sponser in his own business as opposed to working in the same company that your upline is already employed in. Call the Amway legal services in MI to verify that and persue it accordingly. My point with BSM's is that I "personally" have been aware that upline directs have made income on BSM's. I am not currently a direct nor have been one. I don't know what kind of group you were in, but our groups marketing plan has always been to state that there were several companies involved with the structure of the business, and not solely affiliated with AMWAY. Whether my upline Direct(who is a Diamond) or my Double Diamond or Dexter Yager himself made beaucoup bucks on the sale of BSM's was not a concern of mine. The fact is you can either get something positive out of BSM's, rallys, and seminars and pay for them, or you don't and decide not to buy them. It is a separate business entity from the Amway/ Quixtar marketing plan and is not represented on the SA-4400 as potential income because it is not part of the Amway/ Quixtar bonus structure. In otherwords I personally don't care if my Upline directs make money on something that is a positive influence on my business or my personal life as long as I decide to put forth the cash. I am sure that for every Diamond making $10,000 on BSM's the InternetServices Corp. own by the Yager family is realy raking it in! Now you have a point when it comes to some of the tactics that some groups use to promote BSM's and seminars. It may or does go beyond the scope of ethics. What is important to understand is that everyone is on the same sheet of music with information. The "SYSTEM" of everyone duplicating a path of success is like a franchise does with it's stores/products. Not every store/franchise succeeds even with the same set of tools or info. Other factors can prevent that from happening. However, your chances of succeeding are better than others if you follow the same pattern. In a franchise business you have no choice but to sign a contract that dictates what you will or will not do. In this biz you you have the option of telling your upline to take a flying leap and kiss your *ss if you so choose.

Your statement about "those with the most money win in the courts" is a cop out. Sighting the OJ Simpson case is hardly a good analogy. It wasn't the money as much as it was a poor prosecutorial presentation. In any criminal court case it is the burden of the prosecution to PROVE the evidence against the defendant. While you and I know that the evidence was overwhelming as we saw it, the law prevented the jury from making the same conclusions based on the information that they were allowed to consider. The nature of the charges, "1st degree murder Under Special Circumstances", which calls for the death penalty, had to be unanimously voted guilty by the jury to be won. It was a bad gamble by the DA's office due to the fact if 1 out of 11 jurrors voted innocent, it would be an innocent verdict. That also coming after the fact of a bad air of corrupt cops and the Rodney King case in LA. So money had little to do with the OJ case. Most Law professors understand this. The prosecution did a poor job proving the case to the jury in a way the law allowed them to. Not the way you and I saw the case on TV. I agree he's guilty and broke. The case against Amway from P&G that lasted 2 years also is a case where the company with a much bigger cash flow and stock holders to back them up financially had lost a case. P*G is one of the largest publically traded companies in the world. It's cash flow is phenomenal. It had many more cash resources than AMWAY could have dreamed of and still lost the case in several courts(UTAH+TEXAS) due to lack of evidence and sufferred several fines of comtempt in court for misleading information. It is now facing lawsuits from liable misleading info that it has funded through a web site that you quoted on your letter MY Story.

I will send this publically released news story that I found on the web from AMWAY corp to "back up" this claim I have made about Anti-Amway web sites being funded by other comapanies, so you understand that I am not falsely accusing nor am I liable in a court of law as you suggested I may be by making this remark. I am not stupid enough to make information that would get me in legal trouble on a public, tracable from of media like an "email" letter.

Microsoft Corporation is another company with loads of cash that is being beat in the courts. Essentially the largest money making company worldwide and they are losing the battle in the courts. So for all of the pissed of people in ex distributor land who want to take the BIG guys out to dry, I say to you organize, pool your money, find a money hungry lawsuit lawyer(there are tons of them who would probably work for free, "pro bono", only to take a good percentage of the winnings. The money issue is a cop out in this lawsuit happy society. The key is having the evidence to win in court. There are several court cases that resulted in the settlement of Amway distributors, and the corporation. The one concerning BSM's changed the way we handle BSM's as you know and it is a better business because of it. It wasn't because of information Web sites like yours. It had to do with a court case in a Federal District court in Philadelphia. Did you take part in the lawsuit's compensation? Every current and formal distributor had the chance to take part in the settlement. I didn't. Your efforts to take Amway and other MLM's to court will result in a better self regulated industry, of which I and other IBO's and future IBO's will benefit. The reason why you developed a web site is your personal business, sort of. Since you publically post it on the WORLD WIDE WEB as a forum for your crusade then you must be prepared to accurately and legally back up your claims so you are not liable for defamation. The fact that you worked for a diamond in the business and maintained a downline relationship I think is wrong on his part. But if you worked for him and knowingly contributed to a corruption of other distributors, families, and groups, only to deny it while you were being monetarily compensated in the form of a paycheck, then you were just as corrupt. If you were on the "inside" for 5 years then it is hard for me to believe you opened your eyes to the corruption on the last day on the job and then quit. If what you say is true about your upline Diamond, and I do not doubt you, then you were part of the problem and in the same case worse for knowing and not telling. To tell your story in retrospect on a Web site that has no credability beyond those who personally know you does not erase the corruption that you took part in and denounce today. You can not undo what has been done and you are not any better of a person by pointing your finger at them and crying victom to the uneducated populous about a business that few understand. You may not like to hear that but as a stickler for ethics and truthfulness I accept no excuse for anything less.

I would however, if I were you, contact the Amway corporation and inquire about working for your Diamond while being in his downline and any violations to the ethics and conduct. If you want I will get a copy of the ethics and conduct and send you a copy as it may pertain to you. Since it was several years ago it may or may not be applicable. However, it would seem to me that it would be one of the 1st rules that would be written due to the potentil for abuse.

My personal problem with web sites like yours is the implication that anybody that is in AMWAY or QUIXTAR is corrupt, decietful, and has a sick interest in making the lives of people who are prospects a personal hell. It also suggests that people who are in the business can not think for themselves and are subject to mind altering and brainwashing. As a person who was in the US Army Special Operations Command and know a little about Psychological Warfare and other operations involving psychological influence, it is far from the truth. Any so called expert can write a book about brainwashing and site examples about a particular group that they have a problem with to get book sales. However, if you understand the simplicity and the difficulty of brainwashing, then you must also acknowledge that in it's simplist forms, mass media such as television, movies magazines,and newspapers that control what information is released to the public is a form of brainwashing. As well as churches, synagogues, mosques, ect.... In it's other forms that is actively used by, lets say governement and military organizations, it is a blatent and deliberate way to break people down using fear, drugs, and a whole host of things that would horrify you. Most people in my opinion are not great at thinking for themselves and are more succeptable to influnce, good or bad. But manipulation by using positive or negative influence is far from brainwashing. We use it all the time to teach our children who can not think for themselves yet that drugs are bad, drinking and driving is bad, violence is wrong, ect. . .This so called brainwashing doesn't seem to work as we all know. But when an organization such as a church or a business tell people day in a day out that we should walk in the lives of positive GOD fearing people and avoid negative bad influences that keep us from succeeding then it is called brainwashing because it doesn't fit the agenda of some people. Yet somehow everyday people leave the churches and quit the business despite this overwhelming power. All this without being "deprogrammed" The words "Brain washing" is an overused term by uneducated people in this world. If it wasn't one influence it will be another that would get these highly suggestive people anyway. As long as it is considered a negative organization or group it is called brainwashing If it is a favored or politicaly correct group then it is called education.

I am proud to be affiliated with QUIXTAR/Amway. I have not lied to anyone in my group or downline for personal gain. If I am not sure of a fact or information I do not propagate it. The products I buy both save me time and money and when they are more expensive they are always high in quality and contribute to my monthly volume. If I don't like something or can not afford it I don't buy it. I never was pressured to do anything different from that. Products and seminars are heavily promoted but I was never threatened with failure or isolation from not buying or attending them. This would seem contrary to the fear mongerers who place web sites that I am a dishonest, brainwashed, evil person who can not think for myself or wish to take that ability from everyone I do business with. That is ludicrous. Ruth, I have not walked a mile in your moccassins, but I can tell you that despite your personal and unfortunate experience, you are wrong in labeling me or everyone else in this business without walking in our shoes. If you don't like AMWAY/QUIXTAR then fine. Quit wallowing in a sad and unfortunate past and crusading to save the world. You have better things to do with your life and can succeed at anything else you put your mind to. I want you to. I hope you get everything in life you want and help others to do the same. If you can put forth the energy to develope a web site and answer emails from people like me, then you have the ingenuity and ability to do many things that will leave your bad experiences permanently behind you.

Your intentions are obviously good. But unless you are going to go all the way and legally pursue or help others legally pursue criminal or liable acts then quit wasting your precious time. Amway or Quixtar is not going away. It is thriving and doing well globally. It didn't survive 40 years by screwing people over and poisoning people with their products. It is not a perfect company with perfect people. It will never please everyone in it or the organizations afilliated with it. I can think of a lot more threatening entities to crusade against and save the world from if that is your calling in life. I don't take your comments personally, the shoe doesn't fit here. But some of the othe web sites you link to are just plain trash. Be careful who you associate with especially if they are under legal scrutiny. I wish you well and thank you for the quick reply. I appologize for the long reply. I am very intellectually driven and have a knack for conversation and debate. I will send you the web page on P&G and the Schwartz web site that is under court review.

No hard feelings,

Part II

http://www.amway.com/infocenter/pressrel/pressrel54.asp <---Click here or copy and paste address on your browser. I do not know what is pending in this court case since it was filed. This is where I back up my info in reference to web sites being financially backed by other corporations. If you wish, do a news search on this case to see what you come up with. Although it is an Amway web page which may make you skeptical it was a publically released news artical from the corporation. Usually the PR news wire has AMWAY corp releases. Thanks again Ruth.

Re: Quixtar

It seems like you have a lot of experience in this business and before I make a final decision I wanted to get feedback from someone in exactly your case. I was introduced to Quixtar about two weeks ago now and I am very excited about it. After reading your articles, message boards and "your story," I am now a little hesitant. The little video that they put out sounded great, but then when I read your quotes I was thinking that this really isn't what it is all cracked up to be. My biggest point of this letter is to find out if you think that in the future, this will be a productive site. I have not done anything like this before and so it is all new to me. I am very self motivated, but I will easily get depressed if it doesn't work out. The next question is, is this site doing better now or is it still on the down fall? Please reply! It will be greatly appreciated.

Hello Ruth,

I hope you've been doing well. I've placed an order for your book 'Behind the Smoke and Mirrors'; I look forward to its arrival and to reading it. Thanks for helping spread the word about a destructive organization.

Would you mind if I asked you a couple of questions? Given your background and expertise in MLM-type scams, I would certainly listen to and respect whatever you've heard on these folks....

1.) Ever hear of Larry Hahn, or a perfume distributor called "Inscentives"? I ask because I attended a one-day seminar/workshop at their Malden, Mass. office in early 1991--the recession hit New England especially hard, and people were looking for all kinds of ways to earn money. I've had suspicions about this place for a few years; however, I'm not sure if they even exist anymore. Know anything about them?

2.) What's the deal with Anthony Robbins? Something about him just doesn't make me feel too comfortable. Do you know if he's been linked to any MLM-scam type stuff?

I'd appreciate any opinions you'd have. Thanks so much--

yes, thank you. I will find out what's going on and 10 days. The gentleman that started the company worked in the phone card business previously so I'm sure is aware of the local laws. The gentleman that helped him design the business has an IQ of 192. They are probably under investigation because the growth rate is now averaging 5% eighty. It is unbelievable how easy it is to sign up new Internet Mall Owners. I have been in for one week and already have a 15 person downline.

PrePaid Legal

Re: Nutrition for Life

I've been a Nutrition for Life Executive for a whole month now after paying $499 for the fast track program. This way I get to the "Free Car" quicker. I talked to a 28 yr. old platinum executive and she was so sincere about NFLI and my last question before signing up was "What do I have to lose for not joining?" She said everything NFLI has to offer. She added it was fool proof all around. Their "spill" system was the "key" to the the whole business and that I will receive people under me even without me sponsoring anyone. I have only 2 things to do: 1) Buy or sell $100 worth of products a month; 2) Apply for the BTS where I will be receiving tapes, books, videos that'll help me promote NFLI-I told this Platinum Executive that I wasn't into selling, she told me she hasn't sold a thing since she joined. So why do I need to join the BTS? I have to pay approximately $25 a month for this.

Here's my question: Your site talks about Amway, Quixtar, etc. Do you have anything on Nutrition for Life International? By the way, I already know about Kevin Trudeau so I want something more current. I appreciate your help and from what I already read on the False Profits site and a personal reply from Robert FitzPatrick, I am ready to quit and get at least half of my money back.

Thanks for your time. I am looking forward to your reply.

Sincerely,

Re: KM .net

Thanks!

Re: Darwin

does anyone have som info about darwin who is starting in norway?

Re: Amway

Dear Ruth,

First up, please accept my apologies for refering to you as man: its just the way that we kiwis talk.

Don't worry, I'll keep writing, and I'm gonna do more than just survive! I'm going Crown!

My parents were distributors for 10 years, and made no money because they were not dilligent about building the business. Other people go direct 3 months on from joining, because they are dilligent about building this, and they build long term sustainable business, because this thing defies its own geometric nature, and doesn't saturate quickly. Most people drop-out because they find that too much work is involved, or just want to buy products, and that keeps them happy.

>is characterised by the fact that >people only make money by recruiting >people who recruit people: money is >made solely by recruiting people, not >through the movement of goods and >services.>

>Yes, and Amway's own literature proves that only 18% of goods and >services are >sold to retail customers, in clear violation of the FTC's 1979 ruling >that makes >70% the "acceptable" number for the business to be a "legal" pyramid. >

How does the Quixtar IMC model fit into this?

Should that ruling be reviewed, as you should remember, having been a distributor for fifteen years as you claim, that the major characteristic of a pyramid scam is that money is solely paid out on volume moved. Yes, in New Zealand, there is only 20 PV attached to the kit. This means that if you think that you are going to make any money by solely signing up distributors, if you sign up 9 distributors a month, you will make $12.96 NZD per month (By comparison, a Big Mac in NZ costs $3.45). Having been in the business for 15 years, I'm sure that you'll agree that that pittance just is not worth the effort!

Making money comes from repeat business: so if people are happy with using the product, chances are that they will want to buy it again and again, which generates PV and BV. (Obviously, som dumb people might buy it to just stick on the shelf and it will never leave it, inorder to buy their way into different pins. If pressure is put on them to do that, then one will hope that Amway will move in and de-sponsor those people who are putting that other distributor/ IBO, before it comes to the attention of the regulators. Otherwise, if someone does that, they can return the product for a 90% refund, and if they are too lazy to do that, then "A fool and his money are easily parted" comes to mind from the book of proverbs). As a member in the IMC model, it means that someone can buy the goods at a cheaper price (ie Wholesale), and the PV and BV on that goes to the IBO (new terminology for a distributor) who signed them up. Also, what is intrinsically wrong with someone buying the products for personal use, and networking it out so that other people are buying for personal use, and getting volume bonuses on that, even if those other people are IBOs or Members. Remember, the customers are happy as they are getting the product that they are after, and the person who set up that chain is being compensated for their work.

>I've probably SHOWN it more often than you've SEEN it.

Yeah? How often on a monthly basis? I was told BEFORE getting involved that I would have to show it at least 15 times per month on a CONSISTENT (i.e. monthly) basis (go-getter, as you may well remember), in order to make big bucks. I haven't done that as yet, so it follows that I have not made big bucks yet.

>but >if they do not buy products for >either personal use or on-selling to >customers, no one makes any money. >>

>Sorry, the FTC decision said RETAIL sales, not self-usage by >distributors.

Okay. Refer to the above paragraph about what is wrong with people buying products for self-usage, sharing the idea of buying for self usage, and collecting a percentage of that turnover. Remember, It is still product volumes, and not recruitment that make this business profitable.

>DO SOME RESEARCH MAN!!!!!>> Sorry about this. I'd better do some more research on this part. I'd better go check that link. Also, this is how NZers talk. We even call females 'bro' here.

>OK, then you go to my former upline's bank manager, and you tell him >that the almost $3 million per year in tool and function income should >have been "capped" at a lower figure, and you're there to take it all >back. Then you go to Triple Diamond Brig Hart, who testified in court >documents that "more than 2/3" of his income is from the "system," and >you tell his bank manager the same thing. And then go to Dexter Yager, >who has told newspaper reporters that more than 2/3 of HIS income is >from tools. . . etc., etc., etc. If you are in NZ, as your letter >implies

Which I am. Come visit some day. Bloody awesome country.

To respond to your comment, what percentage of his expenses went on the functions? Did the functions take up a considerable part of the expenses?

Other thing on the tools: If you are not serious about building the business, DO NOT BUY THEM, unless you want a good personal development program (and then, I'd recommend most of our books of the month, and Anthony Robbins Personal Power II). Remember, Tape of the week is NOT a requirement, neither is book of the month, neither is attending the functions. IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO BUILD THE BUSINESS, DO NOT GO ON THE SYSTEM. If you do, and you are not serious about putting it together, the system will cost approximately $1000 NZD per year, which is money better kept in your own pocket.

GO ON THE SYSTEM ONLY, AND ONLY IF YOU ARE SERIOUS ABOUT BUILDING THIS BUSINESS. I have found the tapes extremely valuable, as they help me to keep motivated, give me pointers on how to prospect, make phone calls, etc

Don't worry, gimme two years and I'll be a Diamond

All the best,

God bless you,

Hi,

You said on your site that you don't print email that contains foul or obscene language. From what I've seen at the Riceboy page (don't know if it's still up), truly foul and obscene email gets printed and makes a good case for the cause, since it shows the other side of MLM people who are perhaps threatened by what's on your page. And printing it will cause even more hate email, which means more amusing email to read.

You may want to block of a separate section for the foul language email with disclaimers, though.

(Ahh, found the Riceboy page: www.riceboypage.com )

Regards,

Re: Nutrition for Life

Hi Ruth,

I'm confused, what's wrong with paying for training material if it's going to help you?

Re: Amway/Quixtar

Hello Ruth;

Great book! My wife read it before I could touch it! I sure hope this book will inform many other thoughtful folks and help them to avoid the tricks and traps of the highly suspect and questionable mlm schemes out there, in addition to what I now refer to as, Amway="Quixtar.conned."

These folks don't need another Targeted Tax Break from OUR Congress, taking over a hundred million dollars from We the people, rather, they need to go to prison!

Re: Amway

I was just reading your information about those of us running web sites critical of Amway getting Subpoenaed.

Well, guess what else?

Amway has identified by name, at least 141 Amway "distributors/employees." Guess what? THEY too are now facing the music of such "Subpoenas"! YES, that is right! These hapless distributors have now been caught up in the quagmire along with us. Amway names them, they get Subpoenaed! (By P&G lawyers.)

I first warned this would become the result.

Guess what else?

You know how they said P&G "secretly" hired a law firm to defend Sidney Schwartz? Well, it turns out that ALL of these distributors, just "happen" to be represented by an old standby Amway lawfirm -- and they are ALL fighting NOT to submit to the Subpoenas!

Ain't it thick, er, great, as they USED to say?

Incredible, eh?

Ken L. Lowndes

PS: You have permission to use my name, so please, DO IT!

Re: Equinox International

Hi Ruth, wanted to again thank you for getting me in touch with Rob Styler. I was able to get valuable information out to him for his assistance as testimony and also, it was just a karmic blast --- of all people, in all times of need, Rob Styler who was my upline IMD, and I crossed paths again!

Thanx Ruth, Best to you,

Re: Amway

I was being hasseled by a Amway Distributor,and I thought ..I'm going to check into this Company, & I'm glad I did! Thank-You very much for the articles posted on your site. I have a Friend who asked me to try some samples of Watkins products. Q. have you had any complaints about Watkins? I'd like to know before I invest any time or $$, thanks for taking the time to post this page of Vauable information we need more like you!

Sincerly,

Re: NuSkin/Big Planet

Have you ever had any complaints or found Nu-skin/Big planet to be decietfull or dishonest in anyway?

Re: NuSkin/Big Planet

I just have a question. Have you found anything or heard anything concerning Nu Skin/ Big Planet? Have they ever been decietful or dishonest?

Re: Quixtar

Hey,

Nice site. Why don't you try posting some more recent articles like these from Hoovers Online. However, I'm guessing that these articles will never get posted on your site, but I thought you might like them for your own knowledge. I look forward to hearing back from you.

Take care,

Re: dqBIZ.net

I was hoping to get your input regarding a new MLM a friend has been talking to me about. It's called dqBIZ.net. It's basically a web portal where individuals can go and buy merchandise off name brand retailers sites. I personally think it's a scam but he is really in deep in this. Just wondering if you've heard of it and if you have what your thoughts are. Any help you can give would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Re: Amway/Quixtar

Your article is the typical person that has tried something and failed. I have been involved with Amway and now Quixtar for over 13 yrs and that has been the best yrs of my business life. We have more friends, traveled more and made more money that I had ever dreamed of. Your article is filled with things that aren't true and it will only hurt people that don't have enough sense to check something out for themselves. In any business people quit,fail or whatever but when they do, its not the business fault. Its the individuals. I have invested in the system and grown personally and made ever penny back that I put in. You hurt the whole industry with articles like this and this could be written about any business.

Re: Nutrition for Life

Thanks Ruth,

I have a question. The first time I got into your website there was a listing of e-mails which all I had to do was click on the one I wanted to read and it'll take me to it. Now I don't know where that is in your site. Anyway I read a series of 8 or 9 letters from an irate person at first and later he/she became your friend at the end. I think it was one of the newest ones. I didn't notice reading your replys to him. Can you send me your replys to this person? I have a friend in Amway and I shared your site with him and he sent me this long letter and I am still attempting to answer him. I don't care much about Amway, I just sent it to him because I was concerned with the amount of negative things I was getting from Amway when actually I've been looking for things on Nutrition For Life Int'l.

Also on your site was a guy "Probandt" I think his name was who was revealing a lot about the tools and he said a "few" systems are "bad". Do you agree? Are there Amway distributorships out there doing the business as a "legal" MLM?

I really appreciate your help and quick response. Where can I go to find out how my MLM is doing internationally or statewide? Would you be able to help me find out how Nutrition For Life Int'l is doing financially?

Thanks again,

Re: Quixtar

Thanks for the review.

Its a bit dated now, however. How about something current?

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