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The following posts have been reprinted in their entirety from posts e-mailed by readers of this website, except that headers, names and locations have been removed. These posts express the opinions and experiences of their authors, and this site publisher makes no representations about them in any way whatsoever. Why is this whole subject ignored by the media?- All this web information would make a great investigative report [As a matter of fact, an excellent three-part special report has just appeared in the Baton Rouge, LA Advocate. You can see it at:
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My name is ** and I was visiting your site. I read your story about Kelly and I thought what a shame for a friendship to disentergrate like that. I have been in MLM for 2 years now and I must admit, there is much truth to what you say. MLM certainly isn't for everyone. One rule of thumb that I have always followed is that I NEVER involve family or friends in my business. MY so-called "warm market" just doesn't exist. Here's an interesting concept that I use to get my leads. I sell Aerial Pictures of homes, farms and businesses that are taken by helicopter. I go 'door to door' and show the pictures. In other words it is a form of cold-call selling. I usually sell up to 50% per roll of 100 pictures. Many times enlargements as well. What a great way to meet people. Most of them don't even think of me as a salesman. These people are the market I use to promote my MLM business. I just leave them a tape to listen to. If their interested, great, otherwise, I say, thank you and have a great day and move on to the next. It's just business, nothing more, nothing less.
I believe that you can certainly make a comfortable living at MLM but it is just like any other business, it takes dedication and what I call the 'entrepreneurial spirit'. I'm no one special, just your average American who's been married for 21 years and whose wife has stayed home for that long to raise the children. I have been the sole 'bread winner' for that long and it has been a sacrifice.
I am also working full-time in a government job, so my life does not depend on MLM. That's probably why I haven't gotten those $10,000/mo checks. It's more a hobby to me than anything else. I also kind of like being my own boss but there is a price to pay. I guess my point is that even though you have some reservations about the system, it does work for many. I just think that if MLMer's were just a little more honest with people that MLM wouldn't get such a bum rap.I know quite a few individuals that do make a comfortable living in MLM. However, 90% of them are individuals whose spouses also work fulltime somewhere else.
One last thing I'd like to mention is that if one of my prospects do show an interest, I let them know exactly what is involved. In other words, I disqualify people in a heartbeat if I don't feel they are up to it. Why bring someone into a program if they don't fit. That cost's you more time and money in the long run. Just like hiring the wrong kind of employee.
MLM does have a long way to go, however, if it does anything, it brings out the spirit in people to communicate with others and gets them out of their 'shell'. Of all the jobs I've had over the years, nothing beats the sheer 'fun'of MLM. I hate to say it, but unless you are running your own business of some kind, you're just another employee and a slave to someone elses business.
If I would've been in Kelly's shoe's I wouldn't have even thought about bringing you into the program until at least, you brought me dinner first.....
Have a great and prosperous day,
Are there Honest MLM Organisations
[Yes, his math is wrong. First of all, the Directs DON'T get $3 per tape. Only high-level Diamonds and above would make that much. Nobody will get a tool bonus for selling 8 tapes per month. Also, there's no BV on tapes. It's CV.]
I have heard people accuse Christian of brainwashing. But by your standards anyone who tries to express their beliefs if brainwashing. I guess I just can't relate to the people who agree with you.
Still happily part of Amway, but not an Amroid.
Part II
I found your page actually looking for the Yager Internet page. I guess I just have an open mind about things and like to here both sides of a story before making up my mind or passing judgement.
I read the Robbin's lawsuit and it seems like a greed thing to me. It saddens me a little because I have met a lot of the people on both sides of the lawsuit. I am very sure that Kelly wasn't complaining about Randy and John helping him get to Diamond, but now he wants a bigger piece of the pie and has had some clashes with the people who helped him build that organization. I have heard some of the plantiffs speak at sems/rallys and the were very pro "system" and pro up-line help. It's really a shame.
About deceptive practices of recruiting, I have worked for several large corporations, all of which used headhunter companies. These companies recruited execs around the country and world, but will set up interviews with candidates and will not divulge the corporation that they are interviewing for. This is a standard practice in the corporate world and I have never heard a complaint. This also occurs in modelling, acting, etc. If I tell someone I have a business to show them, which Amway is, I don't feel I am being deceptive. Like Don Wilson has taught me, if they ask if it is Amway, I say yes, it is.
About PMA books and tapes. When I worked for American Express, they actively pushed us to read,, PMA books and listen to tapes. The same at my current corporation. The things I learned from the books I read, heard at seminars, and heard on tapes helped me go from an $8.25 an hour job to $40,000 a year. I attribute this change in my personal income completely to what I learned through the Yager system. I do not have a full college degree nor do I plan to go back soon and get one, does not appear needed. My brother will be going aan additional $60,000 in debt for dental school and won't even be a dentist after that investment. He still need to pass his boards an additional 2-3,000 and then has to set-up a practice. I also looked into some franchises the cheapest worthwhile one was $10,000 just to have a piece of paper saying you were authorized to purchase the stuff from them to start a business. Maybe that is why I don't mind the price of tools. I also had in college classes where I had to purchase the professor's manual (he wrote it) and the course one, neither of which I could sell back because the changed the textbook the next semester. This happened more then once.
Your organizational characteristics are also interesting to me. I know may corporations, religious groups/movements, and political parties that match most or all of these. I don't hear you complaining about the "recruiting" policies of the democratic party or Republican party? Both of these organizations thrive or die based on the eloquence of their parties philosophy. Christians also have a "superiority complex" if you will. As a devout Christian, it is my conviction that only those who accept Christ will get to heaven. We could have a fun debate about that. I know my Jewish friends believed Christ to be a very charismatic preacher and some go so far as to say the most ethical liar ever. Every major religious movement has the us vs. them attitude to a more or lesser degree.
Your Social Security administration facts I can't argue for or against. I can't tell you when the data was compiled but there are lots of senior citizens working in fastfood these days. I don't consider that an upward career movement.
I keep going back to your underlying arguement that the tools are back. The books I have read teach me to be friendly, ethical, moral, work hard, don't depend on others for my success, and a loving father/husband. The tapes teach me how to do my business of choice. In the corporate world promotions are based a lot on luck versus skill or on how you come across. In my current job, I got this solely on how well I had crafted my resume'. In Amway I can create wealth through my own efforts. If I want to learn a new computer program I would have to purchase the manuals and or tapes to use it. When i worked for a pool company I had to purchase wrenches, screwdrivers, etc. I also went to seminars to learn new products, water chemistry, and cleaning techniques. I have a hard time seeing the difference between the Amway tools and what every other business does. When I go to a corp ed class or seminar that is under $100.00 everyone around here thinks that is cheap.
Your arguement about preconieved notions also doesn't hold much water for me. I have personally sponsored people who did not like Amway but when they saw my presentation they did see it as a viable business idea and distribution concept. As a concept, I hope you see the Amway business as viable. [Well, actually, no. And the numbers support this. Less than 1% of all distributors achieve the Direct Distributor level. This is the first major "level of success" according to the AMOs. Yet, according to the Wisconsin Attorney General, the average direct LOSES $988 per year. Some success! The entire MLM system is predicated on the mathematical model which requires the failure of many to sustain the "success" of the few. And don't give me that tired old saw about "everyone can succeed who decides to." The Morrison lawsuit clearly states that this is not the case.] The different organizations do things that aren't right I agree. It seems that you have more letters from World Wide (Puryear) organizations then Yager groups, well at least the letters I read. [Well, I haven't counted, so I don't know. But Yager seems to be defending more lawsuits that Britt. . . ]
I have driven 9 hours one way to meet with my Upline Emerald. He has a Diamond and a dozen emerals in his group and if I quit it would be nothing to him, but he pulled me aside and talked to me personally when the 2,000 people there would all like a piece of his time. He has helped my father, who is not buying tapes do meetings, and made my dad feel good about himself. I make a lot more then my dad, which hurts him and my dad's only hope is an Amway business. He has had our Emerald meet with him personally and help him out in different ways. I guess I am pretty loyal to my emerald, even though religiously we see things differently.
I am sorry but I don't feel like I am being scammed by my upline. Your figures did not include the 12,000 a month they would be paying in tool money to their directs. Ok so they are making money, they are also the ones paying for the hotel rooms around the country and renting the meeting halls. [Yes, and if they are "average" diamonds, this provides more than half their income. Some sacrifice!]Yes, I may pay a few bucks to go to an open, but my prospects never have. If the hotel room was full of prospects then that Diamond/emerald lost money especially if no one gets in.
I have been in Air Force POW training and experienced real brainwashing techniques. I had no choice or free will in the Air Force. People have the choice in Amway to use the tool or not. They can go to the seminars or not. They can choose to use their upline help or not. I didn't have that choice in the Air Force. We had "mandatory fun" so when I hear people complain about having to go to a function and get "mentally raped" I have no compassion. Why did they not walk out? Why did they go in the first place? In the military I had to go to things or else my career was screwed period. In Amway I choose to go to what I want and of course that in turn helps my upline know if they want to work with me. They don't have to do it either. [That's not what Amway's rules say. According to Amway's Intent to Continue form that you had to sign of you renewed your distributorship for fiscal 1998, you are obliged to help those you sponsor regardless of their decisions to purchase BSMs or attend functions. Anyone is free to cancel or change their tool orders without pressure or fear of retaliation. That's the rule.]
Well, I suppose I am rambling and I should get to work. I hope you have a good day and a fun time weeding out the weak,losers, and the other names you use :). I really have no animosity towards you and hope we can continue in a friendly dialogue. Take care.
Diana,
You are so right with everything you said. My husband and I were in Amway for 3 years. IT IS SUCH A SCAM. We were in INA her in California in the organization of Jim and Margee Floor. My husband and I almost went broke because of Scamaway and we almost got a divorce (whoops!!! that's negative). I got so tired of hearing the word, PV, BV, upline,downline, edify, no-negatives etc.... The people are so nice at first, but when you don't do well they treat you like you don't exist at functions. The people that are doing well get all the attention and the kissing up like... a woman could be wearing the ugliest dress and I would overhear her upline say "OH!!! what a nice dress, it looks so good on you". That is such a phony lie my upline used to say that to me when we first got in the business and somehow I knew she was just saying it to edify me... When we got out of the business like you, I never heard from the good friends!!! anymore.
Also, our Emerald in the business was a guy named **. He just accepted a full time job.. If he is an Emerald and doing so...well why is he working a full time permanent job. He supposedly quit working three years ago and claimed he would never work again. He also drives a leased Lexus just to look good and to use it as a conversation piece to tell people about his network marketing business.
Most of the people in Amway are dishonest and greedy people. Also when ** got married, he had a potluck reception, cheap uh.
We are now in a quite profitable business where you don't scam people. The training and open meetings are free and you are not cajoled into buying tapes, videos and books. There are much better and more profitable business out there that make Amway look real stupid.
Joing Amway was one of the dumbest things I ever did....I'm glad I stopped before I became totally broke, brainwashed and divorced.
A former and free distributor
With all due respect, I have yet to read ANYWHERE what the TRUE problem with Amway is....at least not stated in these exact words.
The true problem with Amway is the fact that, for a few to make good money, so very many have to be losing money and, in some cases, losing big-time. Sounds sorta like communism, doesn't it?
Hope Amway does not cause waves against your site. It is right on target!
Part II
I read until 1:30 am this morning, including the link you suggested. Only towards the end of our "tour of duty" did I discover the Bill Britt was making maybe $1 per tape. I did not know until last night that our Emerald was, and diamond, etc. I also was unaware of the 4% shipping cost scandall as well as why we were pressured so hard into going to functions....functions that I repeatedly saw our Emerald sleeping at with his head dropped back behind him.
Although the people are "nice" and "friendly" and supposedly "christians", I question their character and integrity now. I could tell our Silver was becoming disillusioned...now I know why. He was getting into the position that he got to learn more and more of the truth.
I would rather meed God in judgement "broke" and a "loser" than to face him in the situtation several Amway distributors are going to. "In as much as you do it to the least of these, my brethren, you do it also unto me." Their Awmay bucks are going to be roasting right along their side....not good company for eternity I do not believe. Me, my wife and kids in Heaven for eternity is much more appealing!
I have my wife, kids, and my life back - that makes me a winner!!
Thank you for your support page - it was a real eye-opener. I learned even more than I already knew. Keep up the crusade! Others like me need it desperately, because they cannot afford the alternative, even though they do not yet realize it due to the enormous pressure they are under.
Best to you in everything, and thank you again.
T.Y. for the reply. A few times,not many, I slap myself in head for being so uninformed and not trusting my inner feelings. So,hey! I still believe in other american business opportunities,just not MLM. What is really frustrating is to see amway promoting now to high school kids throught Jr. Achievement.
PartII
Sorry, I forgot to sign my name - it's **. I'm still in a flutter about this. My husband and I were in Don Storms organization, * branch for 3 years. In that time we moved twice (changing states both times) and I know that didn't help anything. Our sponsors are really wonderful people who got to direct but then saw 1/2 their business quit. I know they still have "the dream" and I haven't yet talked to them honestly about my change of heart. I see them do things like counsel about which car to buy (huh???-that is so weird), but I just can't believe they will be able to toe the line so completely. One day I will have an honest conversation with them, because I truly love them. They're being used just like anybody else. My husband is not bothered by this. He got alot of positive things out of the books, etc. and he has had mixed feelings all along. He is able to let it go, but I think I will investigate some of your books. What really gets me is how the Amway Corp. has been unwilling to address this problem. But, when I read the history of Nutrilite and the Judge's statement regarding the Canadian fraud case, my heart sank. It's true that the love of money is the root of evil. Btw, are you a member of a Christian denomination? - not fundamentalist necessarily, just regular American Christian? also- what about your political views? Thanks for your time-
I'm happier being a software developer making $60k a year with potential to make almost $500k in the near future - THE HONEST WAY without takeing advantage of inocent people. I more sucessful and I feel better about myself. I watched Equinox shrink from 3 offices to 0 offices in my area.
An ex-rep.
No matter what I did, whether I fought the stream of MLM in our relationship or decided to give in and join the MLM family, it seems my relationship with this man got progressively worse. The first month I was with him, I bit my tongue and didn't say anything. I wanted to be with him, so I didn't criticize. After that, I realized I was very angry for holding back any thoughts or doubts I had about this company. I would vacillate between wanting to be on his side, and wondering if he was living in a dream world. I figured I could live there in his dream world too, as long as it paid the bills. I have to say that human beings are, by nature of our society, psychological neuroses waiting to happen. We all carry our baggage; MLM merely prays on that and magnifies the differences. I don't doubt that there were things we each had to work on a personal level within the relationship, but MLM helped create a large rift in a very close love and two people who had a good friendship.
We were living with relatives and not paying rent for about six to eight months and had finally moved in with another relative of his with the promise from him that we would get our own place after a month and if he wasn't making the money he needed to support his half of the rent, he would get a J.O.B. I had already found a job after one week of being in a new town. After one month, two months, three months, our arguing had increased to just about every other word. I had threatened to leave several times because I felt neglected and insecure and neurotic by this point having to compete with the attention of a computer, a phone and a business I was really not seeing many results in. I didn't work the business. He did. but he worked. he would stay up 12 and 15 hours sometimes - most times - and still not get done all he wanted to get done still, he had not reached the financial level he wanted to. it would always be the next month. the next month. the next month. finally, he said it was because he needed to have a purposeful imbalance and that he needed 45 days solid and uninterrupted before he would be able to make a real honest go of it and decide if this was for him or not. he had not (after nearly one year) given the business a fair chance and truly worked at it. he had let other things (me) distract him from his focus, his goal and that was only his fault. Or so he said. I wondered when it would be evident enough that he would be able to truly work at a job he loved from his soul and make money that way instead of trying to hoax people into making him money.
Large fights and finally, the split. He cried, I cried and we told each other it would be just for a while and we would be in the Bahamas (he said) before the year was out. Then, he moved in with a fellow business partner. He stopped calling me, stopped writing or emailing me and now, I figure he's gone altogether. I've lost a really good person, a friend, to the hypnotic spell of making fast money and retiring after two years on a residual income.
It doesn't matter what the MLM is, I realized as I read your amway page The MLM's out there are only getting slicker, more tightly woven so you can't tell where the cracks are, making a seamless pitch to the desperate, fearful and insecure person who thinks money will help them find happiness in life. You find it within. When are we going to start to realize this? MLM's prey on this notion in our society. They are said to be the only way business and shopping will be done in the future. I hope that is only a delusion of the MLM people who seem to believe what their gurus tell them and not what family, friends and Life tell them; using spiritual axioms and paradigms as the hook for their downline and prospects. I do know that what goes around comes around. Don't look out. Look in. Bliss is real. Very real. But it comes from being who you are and providing a service in the world that people need, not using people as stepping stones up the creek. If you do what you love, the money will follow. I believe that is the way of the Universe.
thank you so very much for your web page! you have provided an invaluable service to your world. To those who know and those who don't Thank you for listening.
Everything in the business seemed so artificial, so fake. I did not feel like a real person when I looked at someone and all I could see was whether or not they would be a good prospect. When I would act like I was interested in someone's opinion, I was really only trying to "feel them out".
Wanna know what "real" and "reality" is? It is having your marriage working and your house in order and your bills being paid, and being productive with your lives. No one in Amway is producing anything - they are nothing more than leaching consumers. ....consuming prospects along with their products. Distributors are not productive at all - it is all a house of cards - a re-routing of money. The worst part is this: For a few to make money, a large number of people must, as a rule, be loosing money, and in lots of cases, losing big-time.
Although we did not suffer quite to the extent you did, the mental "loser" accusations are difficult regardless the financial implications. I am glad you two are on your way back to recovering your lives and marriage. When all is said and done, your time together as a husband and wife, and time spent with kids will be the memories you will treasure - and that is one thing very few people can have and be in Amway at the same time. We feel free FOR REAL after having gotten out of that racket, and I am sure you do, too.
Sorry this was so long. Thank you for sharing your story - it make the ole tear ducts want to fill up, but I managed to battle the tears back, barely.
Take care and God bless you all.
This page updated Sep-17-98