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The following posts have been reprinted in their entirety from posts e-mailed by readers of this website, except that headers, names and locations have been removed. These posts express the opinions and experiences of their authors, and this site publisher makes no representations about them in any way whatsoever.
Re: Amway/Quixtar Quixtar/Amway at least tells what they bring in and pay out. Here is the response I got form Amazon.com when I inquired about how much they pay out and what percentage get a check per pay cycle: "Dear **, Thank you for writing to the Associates Program. I am sorry but we are unable to provide any kind of a figure for the information that you are looking for. I am sure that you can understand that this information is proprietary information and would go against the agreement that we already have with our Associates. Thousands of our Associates do receive quarterly checks and the amount of the checks are based on the factors as described in our Operating Agreement. Once you become an Associate you may want to check out our Resources section and read the section on 'Increase Your Traffic' or 'Store Building Tips.'" Yes they show income and expenses on their site. But the expenses are not broken down to the detail level. Their affiliate program money is part of their Marketing expense. Quixtar is not unique in what they report. Everything they do is standard business practices. The rankings, income and awards they hype is standard marketing practices. The fact is that Quixtar's income is growing despite the unique visitor count. Keep up the good work in exposing the lies the business owners in all the mlm's say. But stop bashing the companies themselves. Re: Amway What's the date of this suit for $200 million against Amway? Usually there's a date right at the beginning of a suit, but I'm either blind or just can't find it. I can't find any record of it in anything recent. Thanks! Re: Equinox international I,too, was raped by the Equinox Scam. Your story says everything! I tried to alert potential "buyers", but Mr. Jerry Ryan's sermon was much stronger than mine. Myself and my family are $20,000 in debt today because of trying to follow the way of the "cult experts" I now hear that there are class action suits against the company and its Leader. Do you have any information regarding the trial? How can I find out? If only I could recover part of our losses, it would help. Thanks for any information you may have. Re: Equinox Shut Down yea! i heard i guess every thing is all better. but what about the honest hard, working people, who dedicated 5 years of there life to biuld this thing for themselves and there family.everybodys not a crook , im sure in every opportunity there gonna be somebody that my minipulate the system and do something iilegal.that doesnt mean you punish everybody.i cant relate to what youve gone through, but i know that a lot more damage is done than good.some child out there right now needs a waterfilter.im sure mr.gouldd is going to be a right when the smoke clears.i guess hell go back to the ranch and go fishing and say oh well maybe next time.when he does come back i ll be right there. GOOD LUCK! Re: Rexall I received this today and thought you may want to update your information regarding this issue on your webpage. Thanks Monday April 3, 1:35 pm Eastern Time Company Press Release SOURCE: Rexall Sundown, Inc. Securities Class Action BOCA RATON, Fla., April 3 /PRNewswire/ -- Rexall Sundown, Inc. (Nasdaq: RXSD - news) today announced that the United States District Court for the Southern District of Florida granted Rexall Sundown's motion to dismiss the consolidated class action complaint filed against the Company and certain of its officers and directors alleging violations of the Federal securities laws. In entering its final order of dismissal on March 29, 2000, which the plaintiffs can appeal, the court ruled that the plaintiffs had failed to state a claim. Rexall Sundown, Inc. develops, manufactures, markets and sells vitamins, herbals, nutritional supplements and other consumer health products. Visit the Company's website at www.rexallsundown.com Re: ForMor Thanks. I bought your book as well as "False Profits"... In closing what are your feelings about Networking Today; in regards to ForMor international? P.S. I already make a good income but I'm tired of generic businesses and what to try something different. Something challenging with lots of people interaction. I'm still a little unsure, especially after reading just a dozen pages of false profits. Maybe it's a complete waste of time. If ForMor went out of business tomorrow I would have no deciding to do as their is no other Networking company I would consider... All the others have little things I hate even if they do have a compressed plan. I'd love to talk to you on the phone for just 15 minutes but that's probably not possible. Thanks for your time.! Re: Equinox Shut Down My name is ** I was an Equinox rep who purchased a lot of products to become a manager. I still have the products and its been about 3 years. I lost a lot of money. How can I get help? Please e-mail me at * or *. I will appreciate any help. Re: Quixtar [Names have been changed.] Ah, yes,Quixtar. Ain't it great? I started a relationship with a guy last March who mentioned in passing that he had a "website" and was developing it so he could retire in five years. After several months (and a lot of mystery evenings when he had "meetings"), he finally told me he was into Quixtar and it was his big retirement plan. I'd never heard of it but when he said, proudly, that it was a divison of Amway, my radar went up. I went to a meeting with him to see what it was all about, expected the worse, and got it. What a slick operator! First, there were no signs anywhere identifying the group (suspicious). The speaker was into it for at least an hour before he mentioned Quixtar. Out of an hour and half, he spent an hour and twenty-five minutes talking about Jaguars, yachts, mansions, etc. The few minutes he touched on "the plan" he raced through it quickly and suggested that Bill Gates himself was involved. Ah, yeah, sure. What I noticed was that everything was very carefully worded so that you THOUGHT you heard something you didn't hear. I also noticed that this doing-oh-so-well member/spokesman was wearing an off-the-rack suit that didn't fit and his shoes gave him away (shoes always give men away) -- cheapo shoes. My boyfriend was like a little cheerleader, leaping in with "Yeah!" and "That's right!". It was creepy to see him in a state of almost hero-worship. Well, I went home and hit the websites. I printed out pages and pages of information to share with Fred (my boyfriend). Wouldn't you know a big rally came up? He marched off to with stars in his eyes. I couldn't believe the amount of time he was to spend at this rally, not to mention the money. He wanted me to come to their Sunday morning service so I could meet Anne and Henry (his Platinums, whom he absolutely worshiped -- probably because they graced his humble being with their majestic and purportedly wealthy presence). I smelled a rat and said no. Next thing you know, he decides to come to church with me and my son and wants us to meet up with the hallowed couple Anne and Henry that afternoon. Okay, I'm seethinig. Let me at these two! I'm a little afraid I might not be able to control myself and just might rip their deceitful little throats out. So we meet and Fred walks into the restaurant with his datebook. "You're not going to talk shop, are you," I asked. He stumbled over a "no". I kept the conversation away from Quixtar and just marveled at how this sweet-looking couple could be so crooked. Fred was thrilled and wanted me to go to the next big rally in January! No thanks! I'd also talked to a few folks in my office who had relatives caught up with Amway and their stories were nightmares. I finally talked to Fred and let him know that our relationship wasn't going anywhere if he stayed in Quixtar. I wanted a FUTURE not a disaster! I have to give Fred credit because he listened. Then he wanted to see the printouts. I didn't dump them all on him but the few he read gave him much to think about. A week later, he gave me my birthday present -- bath products from . . . AMWAY! I showed him some more printouts, this time mostly about how the upper levels make their money off tools. This seemed to do it. He was really starting to question things. Finally, I shared with him the info that the collections at their Sunday services didn't all go to charity after all. That did it. He was out of there. The funny thing is that he admits that when I first told him, he thought I was nuts. When he read a few articles, he began to question a little. Then, the tools and Sunday service stuff really got to him. He's thanked me time and again for getting him out. He called the great godess Anne to tell her to cancel his tapes and books and standing orders. We celebrated! Can you believe Anne said is we stopped going out to dinner once a week we could afford the stuff? Just like the folks on your website said!!! And we don't even go out to dinner once a week! Fred's now trying to drum up the courage to tell all his downlines the truth and help them get out, too. He feels so guilty. Fred also told me he feels relieved. A little voice somewhere kept telling him something was wrong but all the brain-washing kept pushing that voice away. Now he looks back on it all and identifies things that bothered him: what once were couples were now single men attending meetings. Everybody knew there was a divorce but nobody talked about it. He also noticed that the Platinums and others who were supposed to have "made it" were constantly recruiting just as hard as everybody else. Where was the retirement idea they planted in his brain? Fred was finally willing to admit he spent a lot more on Quixtar in the year he was involved than he was willing to admit to himself at first. He now recognizes that Amway products are NOT cheaper ($200 a month for vitamins?). We finally have a relationship that can work. Fred's going back to school so he can EARN his money and know it'll be there. Some retirement plan Quixtar is: IF you make it an upper level, you have to hope the thing doesn't collapse. The moment is does, your retirement check is out the window. Period. So those who wish to continue and make this a retirement plan better hope Quixtar remains active for another, oh, 40 YEARS. Don't you think the internet will have changed substancially by then (and if you say, yeah, well it's not really about the internet anyway, it's about recruiting, then you already know the truth, don't you?) And there's no promise that Toys R Us or any of the other big names they claim will continue with them for even another month, let alone years. What a rip-off. Thanks to your site, I was able to save Fred and able to allow our relationship to grow. I can't tell you how important it is for others to share their stories. Fred's comment the first night I told him about my concerns was "What if I'm right and you're wrong?". I told him, "I won't be around to find out." Now we can find out together how to build a healthy and reliable retirement plan. Re: Amway [Note: Following are the beliefs of the writer of this email, who is a resident of the UK. Not only do I NOT recommend these "strategies," but many IRS and Revenue Canada cases have determined exactly the opposite of what this individual recommends.] Simple, You are running a legal business. You are allowed certain business expenses. 1 All Tapes and Books are educational expenses. 2 All seminars and costs incurred are legitimate business expenses. (Includes Hotel bill,All meals - subsistance) 3 Your car, telephone and a room in your house are required expenses. I claim 80% of car expenses, 95% of telephone and £750 per year for a room to run my business activities from. Assuming you have paid PAYE in the UK, you can offset these costs against the PAYE you have paid and you will receive a tax rebate. In most cases where people have followed my advice they have received a substantial cheque back which EXCEEDS everything they have paid out. This is totally legal because we live in a free enterprise culture and the Government needs and wants people to take a business risk to stimulate the economy. We are not ripping off the Inland Revenue, check out their website and read the leaflets available. Its mind blowing what you can claim if you are prepared to take the chance and go into business. WARNING: DO NOT GO TO A BOOKEEPER THEY WILL COST YOU A LOT OF MONEY.Go to a good accountant and explain the situation. Negotiate a fee. Their fee is also an expense! If in doubt, ask a reputable businessman who seems to be running a profitable legal business for the name of a good accountant. If still in doubt email me and I'll recommend an excellent accountant - Mine! Please remember, Amway is not a job it is a business and you are a businessman/woman. You don't get something for nothing and if you lost £1000 in Amway, you can be sure you would have lost £100,000 in another business. Why does it seem that it is acceptable and even fashionable to loose £100,000 in an ordinary business but people winge on about loosing £1000 in Amway? Reason: They would ordinarily have NEVER attempted a normal business, and all that Amway has ever done is given them a small opportunity to actually achieve something. There are natural reasons for why we never attempted our own businesses. Usually its these same reasons that make us fail in Amway which is why the "System" is pushed so hard at us. Unfortunately, most of the people in Amway need this system desperately such that they can develop and overcome the natural reasons why they would have failed anyway. This is Amways bigest problem. Mainly because it is their own business and when it boils down to it you don't have to make it work. Most people go to work because they have to. Most people run their businesses because they don't want to loose their investment (house, savings etc.). These are all negative reasons. That is why they tell you to get a dream, (personally the word makes me want to be sick) to try and lift your attitude and enable you to start to believe in yourself. That is why I feel the Amway functions are so good for anyone they lift and encourage a bit like a religious function but what the heck, happiness is happiness and thats difficult to generate these days. A lot of people say, "All I want is to be happy" and they are the first people to try and pull you down with derogatory comments about cult ceremonies etc. That is really sad because they really are jealous of you. That's all but I would like to have my say and if you've had enough of my ranting Byeee, else read on! I've looked at an awful lot of websites running amway down and the tools etc. Some people cannot accept that THEY are probably the cause of them not succeeding. I definately would not take the business from several people in Amway. Thats because some are not professional, some are too pushy, some of them actually smell and others are so desperate to get away from the current hell they are in that they vomit all over prospects, put them off and then blame Amway for all their problems!!! Please stop putting ridiculous sites up. You are only making yourself look stupid - in my opinion. Re: Amway Question Am I in Amway Answer I am a signed distributor but not active Which Organisation IBS Are the products expensive Yes and No Is it a scam NoAre the meetings/Seminars necessary Only if you want to succeed What was my highest level Silver producer for one month in March 94 Would I recommend my kids joining Definitely Am I deranged Don't think so. Do I think money is made from tools I don't give a toss. They are dirt cheap compared with my IT materials and also dirt cheap compared to the tapes in shops. A thought: You can buy a tape for £3.85 with a multi-millioaire giving you his financial secrets? I can't see how that is expensive? Also, if I was financially free I would not give my time up freely to help others. I would expect to be paid handsomely. As it is, I believe that IBS pays for the costs of he speakers they bring in and look after them in the manor I would expect. Why am I not active Many reasons. In the UK the business has shrunk incredibly. I feel that the products, some of which are unsurpassed by any other products in quality, are exceedingly difficult to sell commercially at the full retail price. My wife and I worked hard and we got several commercial restaurants who loved the prods and we were able to achieve our monthly sales target with only 25% self use. I found out that my direct was not selling anything! It was ALL self use and to see him taking every pill and potion going and considering he was 5 stone overweight, smoked and took little exercise, made me "Re-evaluate" my opinion of him and others in my upline. I now take the attitude that Amway is a business and not a hobby/social gathering etc and I run it as such. I read when I want but I do not listen to the motivational tapes as they are encouraging people to "Be 100% loyal" to Amway and 1% disloyalty is 100% disloyalty. This is a guilt trip. How many people are deliberately being encouraged to buy an item more expensive through their own business than at a shop? How many of the Family members of distributors are buying the products because they want to help them succeed? I don't want to be too cynical but people should NEVER buy out of guilt. I have a distributor who buys everything amway without consideration for the cost. He can buy giftline items cheaper at Argos but he is living in a Council flat in the middle of Bristol, he drags his wife to functions that she really doesn't what to attend and he calls this loyalty. My loyalty is to my family ONLY. I have adopted a total business approach, as I have stated. I will not buy out of guilt. I have instructed my wife to check all the products and if the Amway product is the best value for money at the quality we want, then we will have the Amway product and vice versa. This is what I now buy and use and why. 2 in 1 Shampoo Very expensive but I absolutely love it! Glister toothpaste Lasts for ever and not so minty it blows your head off! 7 bar soap Lasts for ever as well Super concentrate gun with Zoom, LOC Seaspray. Amazing stuff - no comparable product. Dish Magic & rinse aid Seems to work well at a comparable cost. Gel oven cleaner Industrial strenght! Dishdrops The best - Makes fairy liquid seem inadequate LOC Regular Handy and good all rounder Rare Breed Have a miniature daschund so 1 bag lasts 3 months and he is in TIP TOP condition. This has to be the most expensive but probably the best do food on the market. Car wash First bottle lasted 5 years Fuel additive Rocket fuel for any Diesel otherwise I have not noticed a benefit. There are others but my mind is going numb. I would like to point out that my experience with Amway has been good. Why? Because I submitted some accounts and settled the main issue which is getting your money back. I have now a level of understanding that I would have never every have had if it wasn't for the books, tape and functions. Financial advice such as: Don't spend more that you earn! Save 10% of your income as soon as you receive your salary (this includes investments) Live on 70% of your income Pay your debts off with the 20% left and then this will be your lifestyle money. Don't buy lots of rubbish. Buy fewer things of higher value that will retain their value. i.e. an MFI wardrobe will have a zero value in 5 years. A solid well built pine wardrobe may actually increase in value! Don't spend a lot of money decorating. You can't take it with you when you move! Instead paint everything simply and hang expensive art and buy items of value that you take with you!!!! (This one blew my mind!) Cars are utter liabilities. Never buy a new one, its only new for 6 months now! Instead, buy a good quality second-hand car -the quality will shine through. If necessary, but an irish numberplate for £150 to personalise your car. You can transfer it and it will go up in value! Read Men are from Mars, women are from Venus. This book is invaluable and is a must for everyone. Ignore this to your financial well being! Just to end with, I perceive Amway has its problems at the moment which is why I am a signed distrbutor but I would highly recommend anyone to check it out as it is very exciting and there is room for success for those who want it. You must be prepared to work on yourself. Don't go in half hearted - you need to be determined. Because of what I have learnt, I have now left employment with IBM and I am a freelance IT Consultant. I work for 7 months of the year only and I live in the countryside with my wife two kids, two sheep 10 chickens, three ducks and a dog. I also have a house in Bristol and a flat in Torquay. If would appreciate any comments from anyone. Re: Equinox Shut Down I just read the posting about equinox and I can say I observed the same things. I was a direct recruit of Kale Flagg and I can tell you I saw him perform exactly what you described in you article. It was an interesting learning experience to say the least.... Re: Equinox Shut Down To start out I want you to know that I am very pissed off right now. Way before the company lost its business, I sent my product in to get a refund. I did that on Jan. 7th of this year. Now i don't even know if i am even getting a refund back or what the hell is going on. All I know is that I am out of the product and as far as I know I am out the money too. Would you happen to know whether or not i am going to get my refund back or if there is anything that you can do to help me. I was going to use that refund to pay most of my debt off. But now I am screwed. I feel that I am entitled to my money since I sent my products in so far back. If there is anything that you can do to help me please let me know or if I am going to get my refund back. My email addresses are: ** Please email me and let me know what is going on. The reason why I am sending you this is because I do not know who else to contact. I NEED this money to pay off my credit card. I hope you will be able to do something to help me out. Let me know. Thanks, Re: Equinox Shut Down Oh, if only I had found your website before I threw away 5000 dollars with Equinox. I wouldn't write except that you say you have been getting abusive e-mails about Dave's story. Well, his story sounds right on to me. After I went to my first training weekend I was so disgused with the blatant "tricks of the trade" that I never sold another item and threw thousands of dollars worth of product away. I wanted refunds, but kept getting the run around. I finally decided it was an expensive lesson. What is really sad is that I was so vulnerable at the time because I hated my job. Anyway it has been about 5 years and it is history to me. I wish your site was a little more high profile. I only found you by accident. Sincerely, Re: Equinox Shut Down Just another victim.......Only $ 5,000. plus the Seminar in San Diago. They have the product and the money! On April21 I was told our check for the return product would come sometime in July! They were working on the Jan. refunds at this time. Today,April 26,2000, I placed another of many called to this theiving company.This time only to listen about their not doing business any more ETC> and that NO REFUNDS will be made ETC. The "Legals" got to them and shut them down! Perhaps in several years, after the asset values are determined and the victims are compensated, I may see a nickel on the dollar. This will desolved Equinox of any futher responsibilities to their VICTIMS. And NO DOUBT the will be back under some guise or another, Fishing for more people like me and others who fall for their" marvelous opportunity" Re: Nikken Hiya, My son-in-law has recently gotten involved with Nikken, Inc. He even quit his job to pursuit this "business opportunity." all he talks about is how he will earn the prizes and incentives, e.g. cars, homes. From his description of the distribution system, Nikken appears to be a MLM/pyramid scheme. Do you have any information on them. Perhaps it is the real deal, I dont know! Re: Amway I didn't know about this suit, do you have any info as to where I might follow- up and trace the history/actions of this suit? You have a great Web Site - very informative - very helpful - I've been telling people about it Re: Equinox Shut Down Hello, I am one of those people that got sucked in to the ugly world of Equinox. I consider myself fortunate that I did not invest/lose a large amount of money. None the less the amount I lost I took out a loan for and now every month I'm reminded of my foolishness. Just out of college and wanted to pay off my student loans, instead I acquired more loans, and lost the respect of my family and friends. Your story rings all to true. I terminated my "distributorship" (I couldn't move this stuff for the life of me) and was told my refund was being processed and my check would be released on 4/12/00. Well I still didn't get it and now there's a settlement and I don't think I'll ever see it. I contacted the Better Business Bureau but have not heard back from them. I guess I'm wondering if you know anything about what I should do? I can be emailed at * Thanks for your story. I thought I was the only one who felt that way. Sincerely, Re: Equinox Shut Down HI, Ruth IF the guy is wrong hes wrong but i dont see what he did wrong. Maybe you can enlightened me ! he always said "Give people a gold brick theyll drop on there foot and sue ya! The thing im trying to get at is that this man has been a victim just like you ,well not even that way the worst kind of way! Knowone can image!He always talked about having a legitimate ,proffessional, classy,positive,educational,company with high quality products.Thats all i experienced.He also said on some of hes tapes years ago that people get the business and dont do so well and they want to blame the company, or there sponsor, but not themselves.he always said that the hardest thing about this business is you.Products the same, Marketing plan is the same , you have to get off your ass! I got agood friend who just went Executive Director, busted his butt for 5 years doing the business honestly and now lost a fatt check sweated to get.Ruth im not jumpin on you!theres just some questions i need answering.also if these people had a lot of inventory say 5000 dollars worth, if it took you 2 years to sell it you would still get your money backplus profit.i had aclientele that bought stuff from me every month. I made good money off those waterfilters 60.00 some people have to work awhole day to make that. If yall call this ascam then im frighten to see what yall call alegitatimate opportunity.That was theBest Marketing company any one will ever see! Re: Equinox Shut Down Hi. Just want to thank you for your website. This has helped me a lot so far, as I have some hard feelings about making the mistake of wasting about $10k in Equinox. At that time I was expecting a baby and that set me off to a really bad financial start as a new parent-to-be. I had always felt that I lacked a father figure (who left when I was two) and Bill Gouldd seemed to work as a replacement at the time. Many of my personality charactoristics are opposite of his. Needless to say, nowadaws my 'warm market' is now a group of people whom I feel I owe a deep apology! I went to Consumer Credit Counseling Services and they advised me to file bankruptsy. My family practically disowned me at the time! Some years have passed and I am wiser, but still my wife and I cannot get a loan. Maybe this lawsuit can help us a little... Glad you're here. Re: Equinox Shut Down Dear Ruth, Thank you so much for the e-mail regarding Equinox's trial and the outcome. I couldn't be happier with the results! I would have loved to see Mr.G in court! Will restitution be made to people only in the states involved in the suit or does it include any representatives in any state? Would you be able to e-mail me when the restitution procedures have been established? I have 2 daughters, 1 son, and many friends waiting to hear! I will be visiting your Website on a regular basis as well. Thanks for having a site to provide this information, and hopefully save many from "cults" such as Equinox. I wish I had found your site before I found Equinox. Thanks again! Re: Sky Biz All of my family is getting involved in this Sky Biz 2000 company and I am concerned since it really sounds like a pyramid kind of ordeal. They have been pushing me to get involved, and it really sounds too good to be true - and I have found usually that is true. Their address is 6128 E. 38th St. suite 400 Tulsa, Ok. 74135. Do you have any information on them or know how I could obtain any? Thank you so much for your help you have no idea how much it means to me to have an organization that you can go to that has knowledge about these type of things. I have contacted the BBB in Oklahoma and they said they have a satisfactory record with Sky Biz. I just am always so scarred of these businesses, I have heard too many horror stories. Unfortunately most of the MLM's that I have heard about do the same thing your story complains about. I however am an average person that wanted more than a JOB could provide. I picked the right company which by the way is not a MLM, but has the benefits of working for yourself. The company I am with ofers a nice compensation plan. If you would like to hear more and see real checks email me at * PS There is atleast one company with integrity and cares about people. Re: Quixtar Thank you for the useful information please send any info you have on bill britt. it would be great to see info you have to compare it to what i've seen from inside the business. any info on ron puryear would be good too. Thank You! Re: Quixtar Dear Sir or Ma'am: I did not even know of your site until a prospect showed me some printouts he had made. I just want to say thank you. It actually helped me sponsor him and his wife into Quixtar. You see, whiners will always make excuses. The key indicator is that they never take credit for their own failure. Every business has its share of snags starting out. I do not know of any other web-based or other business period that "opened doors" and had 20 million customers, browsers, etc. the first day. IBM's site shut down for 4 days. Quixtar, although having bugs that needed to be corrected, bumped through never going off line. Quixtar is not Amway re-invented. Amway2000 is still alive and strong. In fact, they are growing at un-precedented speed. I am curious as to how you get ANY of your numbers since neither Amway nor Quixtar are publicly traded companies. Quixtar is a totally separate corporation. They have their own administrative staff, etc. Through the Quixtar portal, clients, members and Independent Business Owners do still have access to some of the Amway exclusive products we have all grown to love in addition to 300,000+ other brand name products. Some products are available through partner stores and others through the "Store for More." Quixtar also uses the Amway distribution system that was voted #1 by Warehousing magazine. This means, unlike Amazon.com, we did not have to invest $300 million in warehouses and develop a logistics system. We also use the same bonus structure and marketing plan. First, it works and has been proven by over 40 years of history. Second, because of integrity, we wanted people who had built large business on the Amway model to be able to "convert" or register people under either model. This was only fair, and since IBO's, not Amway or Quixtar, own the marketing plan, we chose to do it. There are not more partner stores, not because of interest, but because of the qualifications. To protect the reputation and integrity of the site, partnership qualification is extremely tough. Amazon.com has tried twice and failed (call them if you don't believe me). After all, who would not want to have a link on a site with the highest purchaser loyalty out there? To be a partner, a company must have a proven track record of conducting e-commerce with minimal customer complaints and short delivery times. They must also be able to track volume generated by each individual IBO. Finally, they must not have links or banners that will "lead" customers away from the Quixtar portal. This insures that the person that generated that traffic gets credit, not the store they sent them to. This brings us to hits. Unique hits? Tell me, if you owned a grocery store would you only want new customers? Absolutely not! We don't want more new hits than unique hits!! That would mean that people are not coming back. All the e-biz stats show that repeat traffic purchases usually exceed new traffic purchases. We want a large number of repeat hits (repeat business and residual income) and a steadily growing number of unique hits (new IBO's, clients, and members). E-commerce is a relatively new area. It is easy to be mislead. It does seem, however, that if you put half as much energy into building a Quixtar or Amway business as you have put into trying to steal the dreams of people in the name of "reality" with this site, your grandchildren would be very happy people. They might even have a portrait of you above the mantel. Sincerely, Re: Equinox Hi, My name is **. I live I live in New Hampshire, And this may sound stupid but I have to ask I know Equinox screwed tons of people including myself, but I did like some of the products i.e. there water filters. And need some parts. So do you think that I'm out of luck? Profound, that's all I can say about your wonderful tell all about MLM I don't know your name but I just wanted to share my thoughts after reading your story. Funny, "stories" are suppose to compel "prospects" to buy/enroll etc, but they would not be so willing if they read your "story". Let me say first, that I, too, am an "ex-victim" of the industry. I will explain "ex-victim" in a minute. Long story short, I joined a company in '91, wanting to get off the road in my sales job. I was single, ambitious, and dying to stay in one place vs. traveling. My first mistake was going full time from the get go. BIG MISTAKE! The company, fortuneatley, was very very product oriented. That is the good news. The products did work and I did get a slew of retail customers. Unfortuneatley, the compensation plan was next to impossible to earn any real money on (until, of course, I found my "doers"). I had to retail my butt off to earn anything. As always, I found those who would get excited, only to quit down the road. I was determined however, and like yourself, travled (by plane) to Dallas to the monthly conventions. Between that, my $1,000 long distance phone bills and my "tools", I literally declared bankruptcy. The odd thing, is I was never really mad. I just accepted the fact that I went broke before I could find any real "doers". I still believed in the industry and actually got "recruited" by some crossline people in that company to help launch a start up. The LORD must have been watching over me because you know as well as I do to run the other way when someone mentions start up. But, I agreed and prasie GOD, I am still earning a check from that company which I have not worked in approximately 6 years. I worked it 24/7 for about 6 or 8 months, and got blessed w/ a doer early on. It is important to note that I did not find that doer. This is important for 2 reasons. #1, Although it is nice to receive the checks, I could not look anyone in the eye and tell them they could duplicate what I had done UNLESS they, too, got lucky (blessed) and found a doer early on. So..this acutally worked to my disadvantage when it came time to talk to people about the business. The other reason, on a more positive note, that it is important to mention, is it can happen (not very darn often) but it can happen that someone gets "lucky" early on. I would NEVER EVER recommend even mentioning that as a possiblity to someone becasue the odds against it are so staggering. But, if we are weighing EVERYTHING, I guess it's fair to say it can happen. The problem w/ that company is they kept changing the comp plan every few years. I lost many dist each time. My check, obviously decreased each time also. But, because I did not feel responsible for even building my check, I was not that angry about losing a lot of it, I just knew in my heart of hearts that I could no longer promote the opportunity, ever....even if/when I decided to go back to work. (I was suffering from MAJOR burn out which is why I stopped working after about 6 or 8 months) BTW, the doer that was placed in my organ. was found AFTER I had quit working. That is probably why I never felt "good" about the check I was earning. But, I kept it nonetheless. At it's highest point, it was approx $3,000 a month. Not huge, but welcomed each month. Especially for the lack of effort I was putting in at the time. Welp, 7 years later, and a husband now and 2 toddlers later, I was ready to go back to work in the MLM industry but needed a new MLM home. I found something in AUGUST of 99 that is everything I had been wanting from the first 2 I joined. We are now in our 7th month, our check was $1440 this past month and I am pleased w/ that. I have built it myslef (no handouts :-) which feels awesome and I am now proud of what I am building. Much better than it being handed to me. (We have no retail program) so there is no up front investment nor is there an enrollment fee. Our tools are very reasonable and our "meetings" are conference calls so that does away w/ the travel aspect, short of going to the annual conventions each year. The phone rates are so "mlm friendly" now, that we are into profit and have been for several months. We purchase $150 out of pocket a month worth of products for our own use. I am happy to report that most of my people WHO ARE SHARING our products at all are earning some kind of a check. As they simply purchase their own products to consume, they are tickled that whatever check they get, helps them at least pay for their products. I learned a LOT from my first company (who still exists), I learned even more from my 2nd one, and used that knowledge when I went "shopping" this time. I do have very lofty goals now 5 to 7 year down the road. I agree w most all that you said in your 10 tests of MLM opportunites. There were a few things that I did not necessarily disagree with, but felt your comments were perhaps a bit on the jaded side. I believe that 95% of the pay plans out there are set up for the average person to FAIL, and that is terribly sad. I also believe that companies like the one I am with are truly interested in trying to put some integrity back into our industry and truly trying to offer an opportuity to the average part timer. I wish more companies had that as even 1 of their goals like ours does, verses just having their ONLY goal to "get rich". Our compensation plan is structured so that there may never be a $200K/mo earner (how much money does one need for crying out loud),because the "wealth" is structured to be distributed to more than just the "top" people. So, we may never attract the "Hitter/i.e. greedy" types, but we will and are attracting hard working, honest people who simply want to be paid for their efforts in short order. Ya know something, I have a LOT of people in my group who have tried MANY MANY MLM's and many have never seen a check, period! This one lady in particular (about 60 years old), enrolled 4 customers her first month (not even members, just customers) and her check was $78.00. In speaking w/ her, you would have thought she won the lottery. That meant more to me than my $1400 check did. My new passion has become to help those who have failed in this industry, but still believe in it. Seems the Lord has led many of those types to my door step. Welp, I've rambled on enough. Again, your story touched me and how well I remembered my bankrupt days when reading it. I could relate w/ so much of what you were saying. But, God is good and has led me down this MLM path once again, but with my eye WIDE open this time. I'm sure your web site is very very comforting to soooooooooooo many who have failed and felt like they were the only ones. I appluad you for your time, your sincere concern for those adversley affected by this most fluctuating and confusing industry. I hope that for their sake, more companies come along like ours and help put some integrity into it. It's not always about the money, it's also about those we can help and touch along the way and you are doing a terrific job of that. May the Lord Bless and Keep you, Re: Melaleuca Where would I find background data on an MLM based in another state -- specifically, Melaleuca, Inc. of 3910 S. Yellowstone Highway, Idaho Falls, Idaho 83402-6003? I have already looked at their website, www.melaleuca.com. They market an "environmentally sensitive" product line, from toothpaste and hand cream to detergent and household cleansers. Appreciate any help you can provide. Thank you. Re: Quixtar I have several friends in the Quixtar business and we have talked long about my involvement. I have a successful business and don't need the Quixtar income. The fellowship I have had with him and others involved with him has been great. It appears his upline cares about helping people and I know my friend, who goes direct in a few months, has made some good money in Quixtar. I read several of the stories on your site, including your story, and I am curious as to more recent comments about Quixtar. All the articles were in 1999. Any response is appreciate Re: Equinox Hey - I think your site is great and very needed. I know that papers could be published by mental health professionals on the MLM syndrome, particularly in the extreme cases such as Equinox. I'm sure that cult deprogrammers would have a field day with it. I know quite a few people who went through marked clinical depression after having "the Experience," and they didn't even lose too much money. It's a healthy thing for people to be able to exorcise, vent, exchange - whatever - after getting out. In 1997, after being laid off from my job in biomedical research (the fifth layoff in 18 years; it¹s a very volatile industry), I answered a newspaper Help Wanted ad. To make a long story short, a week later I was attending an AMS seminar in Dallas, and two weeks later I had borrowed $5,000, put in the obligatory "Manager Order" and was working in the local "training center." A year later I¹d been browbeaten into becoming "Leaseholder" in the selfsame training center where I¹d initially been pitched. Four months after that, the office was closed, my wife (also an Equinox distributor) and I were in bankruptcy court, we were being sued for $100,000 by the owners of the property in which the training center had been located, we¹d lost a $100,000 townhome, every personal possession of any real value, over $30,000 in cash (not including loans from relatives), and my wife was in preterm labor with our second child from the stress of our situation and having neither medical insurance, employment, nor a dime in the bank. Of course, our banking, tax and public records (relating to the foreclosure on our townhome and the lawsuit) bear all of this out. If you think this is bad, it is. But here's something I feel is even worse (maybe I'm just funny this way): I roped a good friend into the deal. He lost everything. We're not friends anymore. I just read the court order (of 4/20/00), and to be honest, I'm quite surprised they opted to hit him that hard. Of course, he does deserve it, don't get me wrong. Everything I could say about Gouldd, his gangsters, and their tactics has probably been said. I just think it's sad that it had to go this way. It's sad that he just didn't see he could have done it right, had all of the money and the adoration he seemed to crave and not cheat people. Thing is, I'm sure the ego blow is worse for Gouldd than the cash casualties. I mean, his disciples are scattered to the four winds. Who will they follow? More importantly (to him): who will he lead? I'd gotten out by the time the FTC went after him in earnest last fall (1999). The last satellite broadcast I saw was the one right after they lifted the injunction. I think that was what brought me from believing he was kind of a shmuck from whom I did learn some useful things to believing he needed to be brought down - hard. For someone who berates Bill Clinton in public as much as he does, Gouldd put on the very same act: "It wasn't me - it was them. I didn't teach these people to be criminals. They did it on their own." How plausible is that, really, when the average person working in a training center had more overhead than most families of 4? Do the math - and don't forget to include trainings, travel and lodging. I guess it was a case of "you can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear." In the end, despite the $50,000 suits and the Rolexes and the Lamborghinis, he was just a creep from Jersey who decided he was going to get rich any way he could with the exception of selling crack. To be honest, I have more respect for crack dealers at this point; at least their clientele have already decided to wreck their lives. Re: Eniva Hi there. I wanted to know if you've ever heard anything about a company called Eniva. My wife was introduced to this stuff when she was visiting some friends in Michigan who are avid MLM'ers. No pressure to become involved in marketing, they just swore by the products. The particular products in question are touted as minerals in a liquid form that are designed for optimum absorption for maximum utilization, or something like that. Supposedly this friend and his wife are diabetics, and after several months of using this stuff, they are no longer reliant on prescription insulin. I'm not adverse to trying the stuff, as long as it won't kill me. I'll keep you posted if there are any miraculous results> In any case, I found they have a website : eniva.com. Strangely, when I type the URL into my browser, it asks for a password to get in. When I am directed to the exact same URL by a search engine, it lets you in no questions asked. Strange. Anyway, the site does a better job of describing the concept behind the products than I have done here. I'm not asking for your help in figuring out if the products are on the up-and-up. When I found out what they cost, I decided that if they produce anything short of a MIRACLE, i probably won't be ordering again. No, my concern was when I browsed the pages describing the business "oppportunity" Eniva is offering. It goes into a complex explanation about how people you don't even recruit yourself, directly or indirectly, still somehow become part of your downline. Sure, whatever. But, the bigger issue is that each distributor is paid a $50 bonus for every distributor they recruit! Most of the sites criticizing MLM say that this constitutes an illegal pyramid plan, unless I am somehow misunderstanding it. Can you take a look and tell me what you think? And if this is a violation of FTC rulings, how do I go about reporting them? One other quick comment: The shipment of product came about 3 days after my wife got home. In with the product was a flyer inviting us to an upcoming sales convention. Shades of Amway and Equinox? Any help or advice you can provide would be appreciated. And if you do see something obviously suspicious about the products themselves, I'd welcome your comments on that as well. Thanks, My boyfriend and I were pulled into this scam. It really sucks!!!! He lost so much money! Re: New Image Anyone a survivor of Dale Calvert and NEW IMAGE? Re: Omegatrend I would like to contact the writer re a company over here in Australia called OMEGATREND which was founded by 2 Amway members who broke away and started their own MLM program which they call a Business Program. I have a pet Hate for MLM to begin with and have looked into this offer to find heaps of flaws but don't have enough skills to push the point. Possibly Ruth can help?? Re: Online Exchange Have you heard anything about a new MLM called Online Exchange? A friend from work gave me a video to watch about it...he's all excited and is investing his money into it. I'm happy with what I'm in and not interested, but I'm curious for his sake (plus, it seems too easy and we both know what that means!!!!) Thanks. Your site is VERY helpful! Re: Quixtar Hello, I just got started into quixtar and stumbled onto your site through Yahoo. Many things from both sides of e-mails that I have read sound familiar and make sense. From what I can discern so far is that the "BSM's" are a great money maker for the upline's and (although I have been encouraged to subscribe and get on SOT and go to meeting's ,one of which only costs 5 dollars, ) I can't say that they have pressured me into anything. In fact they continually tell me that I'm not obligated to do anything but, as I've read in your posted e-mails, it is encouraged to help build the business. >From all views that I see it seems like a fair deal and convenient if you like online shopping. I have had many tapes lent to me by my sponsor at no cost at all and most of them sound purely motivational and some do's and don'ts here and there but it seems more to build up your esteem so that you can build up your business. I confronted my sponsor about this being a pyramid scheme and he said no because I could get out there and really hustle and surpass the money that he was making. I'm 19 years old and have not been around for the main scoop on Amway and never even really heard about it till my sponsor told me about it but he himself told me that due to some bad distributors and people involved with the business that either created bad experiences for themselves or others that they got a bad reputation not to mention the thing with Proctor and Gamble which I don't fully understand either. That's mainly why I'm writing. I don't really fully understand I guess what exactly it is I'm getting into and I guess I'm looking for a way to justify what I'm doing so that I know I won't face the same horrors you and alot of other people have faced. Also I was wondering if you had gotten any new info on Quixtar since December of 1999. I noticed that's when the postings stopped and alot of material I read was dated '99 '98 '97 and haven't seen anything new or just didn't look hard enough. Thank you very much for your time. Regards, Re: Amway Hi! Yes. I too was suckered in and was a Go-Getter for about a year. I still have my active IBO #. I still buy products and keep in touch with my upline. My sponsor is a close friend and we talk often and talk about things other than the business. I sporadically attend seminars, opens and functions. My upline are really nice people. I have immediately above me I asked why a $2 tape cost over $6 if no one was making a profit. He said the Tool Companies HAD to make a profit, but that no one upline was benefitting. I asked him if our Emerald's were getting a Tool bonus, and he said they get a small stipend that help's to pay for a secretary to help them keep track of tools. Is it possible that he was telling the truth? Do all the organizations have Tool bonuses? Is it possible that in my organization the Platinums do not recieve a Tool bonus? Mine is Yager/Woods/Foley/Pratt Thanks for your opinion in advance. I think our homeowner association is being run by 5 people. We fear that embezzement is an issue, we have attorneys... but still over a year and a half later, we have not seen our books. Then I was told that all five of them are Amway distributors, so I signed on to the interenet and low and behold, no sight with distributors names... but a whole bunch of info about scams... it sounds like what is happening to us at our condo complex..... Do you know anyone who can send me a list of Amway distributors in the town of *... It would help us demonstrate bias at least... maybe more. I appreciate any help you can give. What a great thing you are doing to help people be informed. It takes courage I know. Re: Equinox Shut Down Special appreciation for your website. I read your note on Equinox and the terms of settlement. Where can I access the exact legal ruling on this legal closure of Equinox ?? Thanks Re: Le Club Prive I would like to see your board, and may have some interesting posts about Le Club Prive. Re: Equinox/Amway Im just curious.............I recieved an email and here it is............... From:** To: ** > >Subject: Equinox is gone Date: Fri, Apr 21, 2000 5:23 PM > >Bill Gouldd has reached a settlement with the FTC and the state of NV. >Equinox is to close down and it's assets (and some of Gouldd's personal >assets) will be liquidated to create a $30 to $40 million fund to be used >for refunds to Equinox reps. >>Also, under the court order Bill Gouldd is prohibited from participating in >any other multilevel marketing program. Ever. So if indeed this is true...............then you are out of business. Not a cool place to be......I am with a very solid and wonderful company that has been around 15 year with a proven track record. Would love to share it with you when you are ready to hear. Ps............... Sadlly enough many of us have had the AMWAY scam done on us!! Why do you think that people get their dander up when you mention the word!! :) Luckily I decided after getting $250.00 in tapes and only $8.45 in profits that I didn't want to be a part of a company that was merely making money off of the little people by promoting themselves. I caught on to that after a year with them......:( I too was a single mom trying to make extra income. So I understand where you are coming from. I sent you a message earlier about Equinox..........I also have been with several businesses over the years that have gone out of business just as I was getting successful. I mentioned a company I am with now. Melaleuca out of Idaho falls Idaho. They are a company with integrity. Not only in business practices but in products. I have heard it all.........done almost all of them.........and this is the first company that delivers their promises...................the most exciting and best move I have ever made........... God bless |
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