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The following posts have been reprinted in their entirety from posts e-mailed by readers of this website, except that headers, names and locations have been removed. These posts express the opinions and experiences of their authors, and this site publisher makes no representations about them in any way whatsoever. Re: Pre-paid Legal Services I am a 21 year old who has been in the industry for about a year, all with the same company, Pre-paid Legal Services. I believe that I am with one of the few companies that has a valuable product and a strong corproate team. PPL is publicly traded on the NYSE, so you can do your own research on our financials. Based on your website, you seem to be a certified expert in the industry. I'd like your advice on my company and product. I'd like to take this opportunity to tell you about Pre-paid Legal Services. We market and underwrite umbrella legal coverage that gives the average family access to the legal system that, prior to our service, they have been priced out of. Our company is set up in a MLM format, but we have a product based marketing plan, and a product that everyone needs, and everyone would have if they knew about it. Please check out my website -- www.prepaidlegal.com/go/wdmelia -- and check the details about our product and our opportunity. I believe in the network marketing promise, but only if y ou have a valuable helpful product and a strong company backing it. My goal here is to change the way you look at MLM companies. I agree that most of the companies out there are on the sleazy, unethical side and take advantage of people frustrated with corporate America or the so called rat race. I hope that you do your due diligence with our company. You will find that the deeper you dig, the better we look. You may or may not be interested in the business itself, but please get a membership to protect you and your family's legal rights. Thank you. Re: Equinox I am just writing to let you know that Equinox International was shut down and dissolved on April 20, 2000. I am very happy for the ruling because I had gone to 2 of Equinox's meetings about a year ago and knew right from the beginning that it was all a scam. I've been keeping track of them just to see if they will ever be sued or end up in court. They did and they are through. Re: Equinox Hello, my name is *, and I was involved with Equinox for only 2 months. I got out April of 1998, figured I lost a lot of money and would get on with my life. Yesterday I got a notice from the IRS that equinox says they paid me over $6 thousand dollars in commissions, so naturally I owes taxes. I never received a penny, even though I sent in recepts of the few sales I did make. My question is, how can I get in contact with them to get copies of the 1099 form they never sent, and ask for copies of the checks they never sent. I have enough expenses receipts I can use to show I spent more than the supposed money they sent me, but I want to see their response, maybe nail them for filing false tax returns. Any help you can give will be appreciated. thanks my name is ** and i have a cousin who just recently got wind of a "business opportunity" that im quite skeptical of. It's called PROJECT 21 and is an email based distribution program. It's done entirely over the internet and depends on recruiting clients in order to sell positive thinking/personal development information packages on how to generate wealth. As far as I know, all my cousin will need to do, besides recruit clients, is copy and paste email messages for a few hours a day and potentially earn up to $9,000 or more a month. To me this is sounds kinda fishy. I mean, there doesn't seem to be a solid "customer-base", all clients recruited are trained to become operators who then recruit others, a continous cycle. Operators(the term i use for the email processors that eventually everybody becomes) have to pay $90 each month for the information package("product") that they recieve each month from thier recruiter("mentor"). You're supposed to make money back when your clients send in $90 for the product you eventually copy-paste-send to them. So if you have only one client you still break even, I think??? Anyways, my cousin is only 14 years old and i think that this isnt the sort of thing he should be getting into. He insists that it's legit (as far as his 'friends' say) and just wants to make a little cash on the side. The initial month is free and continuation after the first month would require initialtion of the $90 payment.Otherwise you can just quit and walk away without losing any money (so the welcome letter says).I would be more concerned if i knew this was illegal and that he would lose money, but so far it seems legal (through some loop-hole in the law probably) and there is a 1st month free trail. So I'm kinda interested in seeing what happens. I don't know if this is a MLM or pyramid scheme or whatever but i would appreciate any advise or tips you might provide on how to proceed with my cousins new 'business' thanks in advance ________________________________________________________________________ Re: Quixtar I would like to thank you for putting up this site. I have been approached by about 8 different people regarding 'Quixtar', and I have become increasingly interested. I met with one IBO the other day, and as he rattled on, it became more and more clear he was part of a REALLY big pyramid scheme, and I was about to be the next victim. I am still following him around, and intend to attend a meeting in the Minneapolis Area soon. I have no intentions of being suckered in, rather I want to start a little investigative reporting. I am therefore requesting every bit of info you have regarding Quixtar, or laws overseeing Quixtar that you do not have posted on your site. I thank you so much, and hopefully we can bring these guys down hard and fast. Thanks, Re: NuSkin and Big Planet Do you have any specific info on Nuskin and BigPlanet? Re: ACN Hello, My name is *, and I live in **. Some former friends of mine are now involved with American Communications Network. I am very against MLM's because my parents tried Amway, and dropped out after about a month after losing money. I have voiced my opinions to these friends, and I was met with an almost word for word replica of the diatribe featured on your "survivor1.html" page. That was when I backed off, and left them alone. But these folks then convinced my roommate to buy long-distance phone service from them. My question is this: is ACN on the up-and-up? Or are they a sham? I know that you probably won't respond personally, but I will watch your site for more news Thank you, Re: Equinox How do you stop thousands of distributors? I think he sent a memo out about a year ago stating,that all newsaper advertisments have to be approved by Equinox.They also mailed out to each training center approved advertisments.Also a memo about income claims,and use of the company name.I guess it wasnt good enough.I dont understand why they called it a illegal pyramid scheme.The marketing plan set up where everyone has an equal opportunity to make money.If im a director, and you attain the level of director under me im entitled to 6% of your sales force.I think the judge,,jury, and lawyers are ignorant of what a true pyramid scheme is.A scam would be taking money but no exchange in product or service and only a few people benefit.Maybe you can tell me something different.If this person is an executive Director making !00,000 ayear he has to have alarge number of happy people up under him.There just some things that just doesnt add up! Re: Quixtar I've been reading many articles, info, etc., on your web site. Just wanted to let you know that our experience, and that of our friends, has been very positive. I know nothing of the politics of MLM, but I am happy with Quixtar. Seems like a no-brainer to me and we make money. I'm surprised at the bitterness and hostility I read on your site. Most of the complaints that I read are about marketing practices that are typical of all areas of industry. I am the founder of a state chapter of a national professional marketers organization. For years, I have attended marketing seminars, workshops, training sessions, etc.--read books, participated in roundtables, the whole works as related to professional marketing. All this prior to becoming involved with Quixtar. The very marketing techniques that I hear promoted in Quixtar are the ones I was trained in for years in the Architectural/Engineering marketing profession. Most marketing practices taught by the promoters of Quixtar are simply good, sound, business development practices. I don't understand all of the negativity. Re: Quixtar Your facts where great now I will go and sign on to be a Quixtar IBO. Why you pick up a Forbes magazine lately? Quite relying your experience on Amway! God Bless you! Re: Amway I just wanted to let anyone who wasted their money on Amway know that you can try and get your investment back. I paid $103, and have reeived $58.00 of it back from them. What do they need my $50 odd dollars, if they are doing so great!! I got out of Amway as soon as I realized what a bunch of brain-washed nuts they were. They pick on people who are under-educated, under-employed, and just plain lonely!! And, speaking of the great, God-Fearing Amyway sposnors, I saw my "alleged former sponsor" out in a local restaurant and she glared at me as if she just flew in from Hell!! These people are your friends until you "break from the cult". I am strongly advising anyone who reads this: If you can make $5,000 per month with the wonderful scam, I salute you!! If they need someone to market their product, perhaps they should try something unusual, you know like TV, Radio and Newspaper, the thing that reputable businesses use. By the way, I also resent the way the Amway "IBOs" (and I use the term loosely), log onto this site and say rotten things about people who were wise enough to get out when the getting was good!! If they are so God-centered, why do they say such cruel things about people who are obviously hurt and need to talk about it!! In fact, if they're so busy with their "business", how do they have the time to peek in on this site?? Isn't it lovely how their e-mails start out with "I know you people mean well, and I pity you, but..." We pity you IBOs!!!! Just a little adendum here: When I was at an Amway "Cult Meeting", this idiot told me that she would pick her "business" over her husband any day of the week. I told her that if I had to pick between pulling my sister from out in front of a car and my "business", I'd have to probably rescue my sister. Do you skeptics see the convoluted logic of this organization and its cult leaders!! This is outrageous. Oh, one more delightful thing, when I was at a "makeover session " (I looked like a poorly paid prostitute), the idiot says, Oh Amway products are great. My mother died of cancer last year, and I said "Oh my God, I'm so sorry", and she said "Oh, never mind that. She used Amway skin care and her skin looked great at the funeral home!". Is this not wacked, ladies and gentlemen? My sister died in 1998 from cancer, so I was significantly disgusted by this. And she also said that cancer robs a woman of her beauty, but the Amway skin care gave her mother a "youthful glow". My God, is anyone else out there as sick as I am? PLEASE DO NOT, AND I REPEAT, DO NOT DO THIS-----REMEMER THE SLOGAN, AMWAY - NOWAY!! Thanks, Just wanted to let you know I burned through your book and then smoked through FALSE PROFITS... Awesome stuff! Re: Amway/Quixtar Thank you for you observations. I have bee involved as a Amway distributor for about twenty years and now I switched to being a Quixtar Independent Business Owner. I sponsored a few people, listened to hundreds of taped and CDs, bought products for myself and a few others. I have attended the same type of functions you did and spent lots of money. And I would do it again! I feel that the core products are among the best in the world and, because they are unconditionally guaranteed, if I don't like one I can return it. With the new ditto program, I have ordered my products online for the year, delivered in the month I need them and if my needs change, I change my ditto schedule in a very few minutes. It's great!!! I'm sorry Amway didn't work out for you. I am concerned that you are so bitter. God can help you if you ask Him to. You must also forgive those who you feel have deceived you or hurt you. I'll pray for you. Please email me you name so I can pray more freely. If I can help feel free to contact me. Re: Equinox Dear Ruth: How wonderful it was to hear from you again! Your very good at keeping up with people. That is a very good asset to have! We have written back and forth on occasions discussing the mlm company Equinox International. :0) It was very unfortunate that the FTC closed it down... I do have a question for you though, have you ever been in the direct selling industry? Having learned more about it in the past few months it would be hard for me to relate to you without knowing what experience you have with the industry. As far as the courts decision, well... Were you able to attend the court dates? What I mean is, were you at the court hearings? If you were we must have just missed eachother for I was. I saw things done that I was shocked was legal and a lot of people lie of things that were black and white on Equinox Policies and Procedures. You weren't there so I'm sure you don't fully understand what it is that I'm talking about. The final verdict, in addition to other things, ordered to have Mr. Bill Gouldd (That was the founder of Equinox. He had created the entire company after having become a massive success in the direct industry field himself.) sign a document stating that Equinox International had NOT done anything wrong or illegal but because the FTC could find no hard evidence or facts to prove it ... well, that means that the company had to be shut down. Here is just a little more information about what happened with Equinox International. Seeing as how I've been studying this company for the past 5-6months I hope you won't find it too bold to give out some humble advise. Research what it is that you are talking about and writing about. Try not to listen to the hearsay and gossip that is on most of the Internet. Find facts and legal documentation's stating the "What's" and the "How's" then make decisions and opinions on those, not housewife gossip. Again, thank you for being so considerate and caring to write! I do appreciate it. Re: Skybiz Hi Ruth - Continue to enjoy your mailings. Thanks for keeping me on your distribution list. Wondering if you have any information on "SkyBiz". It's an MLM that "sells" personal websites. It's a binary compensation plan that currently pays out 70% of its stated dollar amount. I've heard from others that those kind of plans ultimately pay out 60%, then 55%, then 45%, even as low as 40%. People I know that left Excel and jumped into SkyBiz (it's also referred to as SkyNary) are buying 3 or 7 "positions" in the company, in effect creating their own full first 3 levels of their organization (remember it's a 2x binary). It almost sounds illegal. Plus I heard from someone in ITI that used to work SkyBiz that the guy who brought it to the USA had previously been shut down running another MLM. Don't remember his name, but thought maybe you'd know who he is. Anyway, would love to hear your take on SkyBiz. I have current and ex-Excel people hounding me to join and "position" myself on one of their "outside" legs, with their promise to "build it for me". If they make that same promise to everyone they try to recruit, how can they live up to the promise? Will welcome your reply. Hope you're having a great weekend! Re: Melaleuca Dear Ruth: I'm the same ** whom you kicked out of your MLM discussion club, for posting ONLY positive things about Melaleuca Inc., Consumer Direct Marketing -vs- Multi Level Marketing, and the Network Marketing Industry as a whole. I'm sure you remember me. [I sure do. This guy was kicked out of the MLM Survivors Club on Yahoo! for repeatedly violating our club rules regarding recruiting. . . ] I find it interesting that now that you have decided to publish some of the e-mail you've received from folks in the Industry of Network Marketing, NOT ONE PERSON can say anything bad about Melaleuca. Nothing as bad as what they are saying about Amway / Quixtar / Equinox / Nikken, Mary Kay, etc., anyway. [I have been publishing such emails since my website started, way back in 1997. There are some about Melaleuca. See the following email. . .] Upon reading the e-mails you chose to post, it is obvious that I'm not the only crazy one out there who's saying only good things about Melaleuca Inc. and Consumer DIrect Marketing. You will have to live with the guilt of having been biased and unfair to Melaleuca Inc. when you posted on your biased web site the misinformation about the "Distributors vs. Melaleuca Inc. in Texas" lawsuit. You and only you, chose to post the pleadings made by the plaintiffs, and not the answer to those pleadings by Melaleuca Inc. That was a one-sided posting, and as such, you convicted yourself of being biased against one of the parties you are reporting on. As the "author" that you purport to be, this one-sideness on your part should be reason for concern in your own mind. [See disclaimer at www.MLMSurvivor.com: "Will I tell you Amway's (or Quixtar's, Excel's, or Trek Alliance's) side of the story? No. Why should I? They've got their own sites."] As the whole world now knows, of course, Melaleuca Inc. won that Legal Action brought on by those losers in Texas, when the jury did not find enough EVIDENCE to agree with the plaintiff's allegations of wrong doing by Melaleuca Inc. Finally, you have yet to answer my question that I posted in your MLM discussion board before you kicked me out: isn't it unethical for you to be peddling your "book" on the backs of a bunch of losers who have been traumatized by their own decisions in life such as not putting in the time necessary to succeed in a business, or joining a particular scam like Equinox? I dare you to publish this piece of e-mail. I don't think you have the "ethical guts" to do so. God bless. Re: Melaleuca Hello Ruth! Thanks for the updates. Things have been well this side of the world. I'm officially a senior in college after my grades come in for the semester. Work is busy busy busy, and looking forward to my vacation. Finally got around to writing Melaleuca and dropped out. The extra $50 a month will go into my retirement fund. =) Hope you have a great summer! I can understand the purpose of your web site. Please understand that not all MLM's are representative of your experience. The biggest problem with Amway is it is product driven,and not customer driven. In other words it is the moving of products that produces income, and this is very difficult, because you have to sell. In a customer driven organization it is the acquisition of customers that produces income,and I have found an MLM that does not require you to be a sales person. Let us be honest here, the biggest pyramid sheme ever, is going to work for someone else. Every day millions of people go to work and who get's rich? MLM isn't for everyone, that's true. Let's not be judgemental of the organizations and people who are genuinly honest and are trying to help others aheive their dreams and goals. Before I go, just a piece of advice for anyone who does get to read this email. If you do get involved with an MLM organization, be sure that the focus is not placed on money, there is much more to be acheived. Base your business on personal growth, helping other, and helping the community. If you focus on those things, and in particular helping others, the money will come. Re: Amway/Quixtar I'M SORRY YOU HAD A BAD EXPERIENCE WITH AMWAY. SOME OF YOUR FACTS ARE NOT ACCURATE. QUIXTAR HAD A $4,000,000.00/DAY (NOT HITS) BUT DOLLARS. THERE ARE VERY CREDIBLE COMPAINES ON THIS SITE AND MANY MORE WANTING TO PARTICIPATE. IT IS UNFORTUNATE THAT SOME PEOPLE ARE NOT WILLING TO BE MORE OPEN-MINDED REGARDING A NEW COMPANY ASSOCIATED WITH A DEBT-FREE COMPANY MAKING AN IMPACT IN THE NEW CENTURY. BY THE WAY, YOU HAVE WAY TOO MUCH ADVERTISING ON YOUR SITE!!!! Re: Amway v Amazon Hello again you should really check the true intelligence off the people that send you info. Best one I have seen in a long time was the idiot that think's Amazon actually made a profit. Not very intelligant all you have to do is look at there scc filling's. Here are some number's and yes I own stock in them. Amazon.con inc Rev in millions 1,639.8 They actually lost 720.0 million last year before taxe's. So tell here to check her info before running her mouth off. The way a company buy's other company's is with share holder's money not profit you dip. Thank god my wife is not a goof like that. Re: PRSI While surfing the web I noticed your website. I was talked into investing (ha) into PRSI by a customer of the company I used to work for. He was completely enthusiastic about it, while I was still unconvinced. Since LA and FL have injunctions against PRSI and have frozen their assets. When will TX get involved. I know of at least 20 people who have fallen victim to this scam. I bought into it just for good PR with my customer. I had prepared myself for the worst but hoped for the best. In these cases where assets are frozen do the victims ever see any of the money they got conned out of? If so, who do they contact to place a claim? If you know, please let me know, I would be more than happy to spread the word to others. Re: Quixtar Hi there, I am really glad I found this site in time. I read all of your posts on the Quixtar launch back in september '99 and can tell you exactly the same things that you have been describing are happening here in New Zealand right now - The NZ site is opening in September of this year, and Amway/Quixtar people here have been desparately trying to enlist new recruits before the launch. I am from Auckland, and a few weeks ago was persuaded by a friend to attend a meeting about Quixtar. They explained the "plan" in some detail, and after being forced to watch the cheesiest promotional video I have ever seen, the enthusiastic Amway people soon had the hopeful audience beleiving they would be millionaires in two years. I had a feeling something was wrong, but when they started demonstrating Amway cleaning products in someones living room I knew there was something terribly wrong. I'm in my mid twenties, technically savvy, and was not that impressed by the idea. MLM may very well work in some cases but I was not convinced its transition into e-commerce would work. I kept asking - Why are people going to pay money just to register at an internet site so they can shop there? - there are already many places on the web to shop for free and in the future there will be more. The response was "Because people have a vested interst in going there - they are joint owners" - or something like that. If everyone is an owner then how is anyone going to make any money? not very many I would suggest. I am pretty pissed off because I nearly fell for it. I was very intersted in reading the true statistics regarding Quixtar's American launch - particularly the misleading number of "hits" and so on. The very same statistics had been spouted at both meetings I attended. I couldn't see how the system could possibly work with the success being claimed but I kept having these American statistics shoved down my throat as "proof". I am also pissed off because the protagonists of this scheme held a room full of mostly thirty and forty somethings captivated in the belief they were all going to be rich, and rich off the Internet. They deliberately played on the success of Amway, the future growth of the Internet, and the (inflated) statistics from America to deceive these people. Why? because they have a vested financial interest in doing so. It was for that reason that I decided to see some opinions of people on the net that did not have their own financial future at stake when giving it to me. Thankyou, Re: Quixtar Thanks for writing, Ruth. But I respectfully disagree. I see no difference in the scenarios you describe. I look at Quixtar as a business--not a hobby, not a toy, not an entertainment--a business to make money. As such, I understand that other people are in business also--as warm and fuzzy as feelings get in Quixtar, our upline Diamonds have been quick to point out that they are there to make money and we should be too. Even before I was told that the marketing materials provide income to the hierarchy, I assumed it and expected it--that just makes good business sense. I really don't see the problem here. I don't care who makes a profit from my training and professional development, as long as what I receive is as promised, benefits my goals (to make money and help my downline make money), is high quality, and I get my money's worth. I've started telling my new people right up front that once they reach Platinum, they have the opportunity of making additional money by their quantity discounts on the marketing tools. They think it's a great idea. I guess different strokes for different folks. I think someone must have been very untruthful with you--deceived you in MLM. You seem so angry, so bitter, so obsessed. You probably had some things happen that made you angry with all MLM people. We're not all bad. With a handful of exceptions, the people I've met have been incredibly nice, helpful and caring--upline, downline, and even crossline. I love the atmosphere, the friendships, the attitude of "let's do it together." It reminds me of the attitude we use to have when I ran long-distance food races. It's not us against each other, it's us against the distance. I love that. But bottom line, I'm in it to make money--and I tell everyone I recruit that--no secrets, no hidden agenda--straight up truth. That's the only way I can sleep at night. Part II Ruth, I hate to appear dumb, but I still don't understand the problem with the tools. It seems like if that's illegal they can just stop Pronet--that's who we buy tools from. They aren't part of Quixtar--they just supply marketing tools and supplies. If what they're doing is illegal, I can get my marketing tools elsewhere and still make the same money from Quixtar. I have no allegiance to any marketing company--just need the materials to run my business. When I marketed for our architectural firm, I used several service bureaus to purchase marketing supplies. If they were operating illegally, I wasn't aware of it. But if they were and I knew that, I would just buy my marketing materials elsewhere. Again, I know I'm not MLM savvy, but I don't know anything about Equinox-- Thanks for your information--you seem to be very knowledgeable about MLM's. Part III I have no clue what Quixtar's thinking is regarding their attempt to shut down Quixsource--but it is my understanding that Quixsource refuses to have their marketing materials approved by Quixtar (I heard this from both Quixtar and Quixsource). If I owned Quixtar, I would not permit a company to sell marketing materials for my company without my approval--if I had that option legally. MLM companies seem to be very heavily scrutinized by federal agencies--I am guessing that Quixtar does not want even the hint of marketing materials circulating about Quixtar that are not accurate. I would agree with that. I actually got a brochure from Quixsource--looks very professional. I totally agree that being illegal doesn't mean a company will be shut down. KM is operating in Kentucky--they said they are targeting Kentucky. My opinion is they are totally illegal, but people are signing up like crazy. Our Attorney General has info about them, but has taken no action. I just thought of something the other day after communicating with you--Pronet says that they are going to start selling their marketing materials online through their web site by the end of this year. Since I could then buy them directly from Pronet, would that eliminate the concern about them not selling the product directly to the end user? I would much prefer buying via the internet than having to drive 45 mins to pick up my tapes and books. Maybe this will eliminate some of the concern about having to buy marketing materials from your upline? I hear that there are several companies selling either Amway or Quixtar marketing materials, but we buy our materials from Pronet simply because they are the only ones we know (except Quixsource--which doesn't have much yet). Take care!! Part IV As I said, the only company I was aware of is Pronet (and now, of course, Quixsource). I had heard there were others, but know nothing of them. And yes, I assumed that if a company was going to be marketing tools specifically for the Quixtar business that their marketing tools would be approved or sanctioned by Quixtar. Makes sense to me. Like I said, if I owned Quixtar--any company--I would like the opportunity to approve marketing tools being used to grow my business. If a company sold marketing tools related to my business that I did not approve, I would certainly let everyone know that--I wouldn't want false info being circulated and people thinking it was sanctioned by my company. I have no idea about the tools distributed by the others companies you have listed. Big question--Why would a company NOT seek the approval of Quixtar if they are going to market Quixtar? Again, I always look at it as though I were the person involved--if I ran a company producing marketing tools for Quixtar, I would do everything possible to seek their approval/sanction--seems to me it would give my company a big boost to have the sanction of the business involved. Re: Quixtar I would just like to say that I am an IBO. I did not join right away in October because I was not a believer in Amway 20 years ago. I waited and joined in March 2000. They must have improved things greatly since you last visited the site. My family shops for almost everything on Quixtar. We have no trouble navigating the site. Please contact me if you have comments or questions. I am not related to any of the owners and no one from Quixtar asked me to write this. Hi I see that you use World Wide Scams as a potentially reliable source of information. I was doing a bit of research about Skybiz 2000 and came across what they had to say about it. It struck me as somewhat overboard so I checked their legal disclaimer. They consider themselvesa site that parodies, satirises and generally makes fun of things while promoting questioning. What they say is more poking fun than serious argument. It might be an idea to make a note of this on your website lest people take them more seriously than they are meant to be taken. My personal view is that Skybiz is not like other MLMs in that one gains a website and an education regardless of whether or not one sells sites to other people. There are no hidden costs in seminars, motivational books etc either. Its more of a case of what you see is what you get than Amway, GNLD and others. You are quite entitled to your personal views. I have had my own bad experience with GNLD. That is why I have deliberately looked for the dirt on Skybiz before getting involved. Regards, Part II Clearly you don't understand what I am saying. World Wide Scams say they are a site that uses parody and satire. Go check their statement for yourself. One case against Skybiz in the States was chucked out of court. I have not found any warnings from Oz, and if you could direct me to them I would be obliged. There was also an untrue email circulated about them just as there have been untrue emails about Procter and Gamble. I am trying to sort out truth from fiction, and I have learnt that not all bad things are true anymore than all good things are true. One needs to get to the source of the rumours, no doubt you'll agree. If the legality is being questioned in Canada, it has not yet been declared illegal. Who, in Australia, is issuing the warnings? Regards, Part III Just for the record, I read the article mentioned below. According to Australia's Fair Trade law.. Referral selling occurs when part of the inducement to buy something is that, only after making the purchase, the customer can earn commissions through introducing other buyers - who can then do the same. This is what is considered illegal. As it so happens, it is possible to sign up as an associate of Skybiz without spending a cent, so in terms of Australian law Skybiz is not illegal. Once again the dirt doesn't stick! Keep trying... Re: Equinox I do not know where to start. I've wanted to do this for so long! I was introduced to Equinox in 1994 by avery good friend of mine. Someone who I had been friends with for about 10 years. She had been asking me to get involved in the company over and over again; but I kept blowing it off because I wasn't able to raise the money and/or I really didn't believe in the company. She then lived in North Carolina and I lived in Florida. One day she invited me to a seminar saying ("Rich Von is going to be there, he is the image of Mr. Goulld"), wandering what that meant, I asked. She replied that he was the founders duplicate. She had also told me a little about the company "Equinox International" before, but I was in a state of mind that I didn't really care about anything that had to do with MLM or anyone who made "Millions of Dollars". Again she insisted that I go to this seminar in Ft. Lauderdale; so I did. In the middle of the seminar I said that I had to go, because I had a date. She was mad because I wasn't listening and said go ahead and go! So I left. I had spoke to her after that several times, and she mentioned the company that she was involved with again and again, telling me of the opportunities, the seminars, the checks that "they" all had made, etc. I again blew it off, telling her that when I was ready I would call her. January/February 1996 I called my friend, I explained to her that I had moved from Florida to Georgia to try to start over and I had a great job. She once again told me about all of the opportunities of Equinox International. I said that I wasn't totally happy, but I would let her know. February 1996, I call my "friend" and tell her that I am ready to do it. I am ready to leave everything and take my daughter and pack up, move to North Carolina, stay with her and try Equinox. (To be continued. . .) Hi, before I take up your time with an e-mail question I should look at a message board. If there is one about the tax people could I see it. I need to research them more. Thank you, Re: Equinox i dont agree with that people were geting paid to recruit, because the marketing plan was designed for retirement. That means stop doing Equinox ,and go on vacation,Check still comes in. Do your minimum of 100.00 dollars in sales collect your bonus check. If somebodys and International Marketing Director that means that person got a hell of alot of happy people under them.I believe that the ratio of happy people to dissatisfied people is greater .Mr.Gouldd settled out because a lengthy trial would cost more money.Why hold on to something if its going to take everything you got in the process !The funny thing Ruth is if traded places with Laurie Rubidge and she took your place.You would have a different out look on the situation,she would feel the pain you feel.I dont know all youve gone through but, all i know is that i had a blast with the company!I made some money,i made some friends,I learned some stuff from a multimillionaire, legal information i can take some where else an apply it. Tell me what did you like about the company? I was very interested and impressed with your site until I came across the banner ad for mlmreview. I went to this site to check out some companies that I am familiar with. I could not find reviews on the ones I am involved with. I decided to try an experiment and see which companies have been reviewed. I checked PRSI, Equinox, Skybiz (Skybiz 2000, Skybnary), 2extremes, Renaissance, KM.net, Powercard, Winner's Circle, Rexall, AIM, Prepaid Legal, Melaleuca, Herbalife, Amway, & Quixtar. These I feel are very well known names and some have been around for quite awhile.I found reviews on Amway and Quixtar only and these were excellent reviews. Melaleuca and Herbalife had a page that said the review was coming soon. I thought with what I had learned from your site that you would be referring people to comparable sites. I think you need to check out the companies that you allow to put banner ads on your page. Not that I think they have to agree with your personal views but it appears as though this site is a front for Amway/Quixtar.Thanks for a (mostly) very informative site. [Note: I had no control over the banner ads that appeared on MLMSurvivor.com, as they were provided by a third party. Those banners have been gradually removed from the site because of just such issues.] Part II Thank you for that information because I am presently building a site and considering doing a banner swap as well. I may have to rethink that if the ads may compete or in some other way affect what I am doing. I will continue to check out your site for info on MLM's. KM.net I have recently become involved in a mlm please email me with info at ** Idon't see this as a hamful product simply because i am not forced to buy anyhing please help me w/anything you have that might be useful visit the site at www.thepeoplesstore.km.net thanks Re: Quixtar Wow, It's somehow nice to know that I am not alone. My husband became heavily involved in Quixtar in June of 1999. This experience is tearing our family apart. He has no time for any of us...and no money. This business has not only affected our relationship, but it has also affected his relationship with his boss at his "real, loser" job. We have just built a new house, and now he is saying that he cannot afford to live here...we are going backwards financially, although he is working, and working, and working. He really believes that what he is doing is good...however, he does not see that his behaviour is the root of the disfunction of our marraige. I have many times told him that this company seems "cult-like." He gets very angry when I say that and suggests that I go to a meeting and I would see how wonderful everyone and everything about this business is. I won't go. He has told me that he is leaving me at the end of the month. It is very strange that a man that I have loved so much and have been married to for 14 years would throw away his wife, his children and his home...and possible his "loser job" for a group of people and a business that he just became involved with. I have taken him to a marraige councellor who has warned him about the problem associated with these organizations, however, he fails to see the problem. He thinks that us negative people are out to ruin his chances of success. He has created a real problem...I can I fix it? Thanks for you website. I had come online just to check out quixtar, I wasn't looking for anything negative or positive, I was just curious to see what all the hype was about. To those of you who are having relationship problems because of this, I feel your pain. Good luck to you. Re: Amway The true success in Amway is realising your own way of doing this business and presenting the plan in the honest way. To have any idea about the business you need the tapes becasue you will never get to hear the successfull diamond speak maybe only at $20 functions once. These who can realise their own essence, what Amway business is about and most importantly that Amway is only the tool to use, then maybe you will come to realisation of how YOU can run this business. Personally I do not care about what Dexter does with the money that he makes on the tapes. Afterall that was him who invented the system and he is so successfull becasue he understood the essence of the business for him. You can never expect Dexter to be an angel and I am not surprised by what he does "in real life" but I am not dissapointed either. This is just the way he uses the Amway as a tool and he made a huge fortune. Most of the rich people like him create contraversy about them take Bill Gates for example. He is "bad" but everyone edmires him I agree with you totally that many people who succeed in Amway business succeed in an unethical way or become greedy. But what I DO NOT AGREE with is that this is the ONLY WAY TO DO THE AMWAY BUSINESS. As I see it is that once you join and start buying the products you have the control over the discounts that you get by expanding the customer base. This is the reward. First its a little discount (or cashback) then you can build it more and more until it pays for the price of the goods and grows to the levels close to that of an average income. Many people go out and try to become direct in so many month they push themselves to the limit and lose their head in chasing of the big dream. But they forget about today. They live in tomorrow impressed by their diamonds' cars and trips while failing to understand the business first in a way that makes them comfortable with. Like in any business you can run it in an ethical and unethical way. The principal of MLM is magic, but the rewards that it offers create the creed and race where people lose their heads and money. I beleive unless the person does not get a feel that theyfor the business that they are comfortable with they cannot deliver it to others in an ethical and honest way. This is what creates the ethical issues. There will be lies but just as many lies as in corporate world. Its all the essential part of the game and you have to realise it and be aware instead of not seeing it and eventially tripping over it. Becasue of intence emotional appeal of MLM and the eager of people to "GET YOU IN" this opportunity will be presented to you as a gift from heaven. But its not. Its another business where if you are successfull your success grows exponentially in relation with time that you spend on it. If you lose you lose and this is the part of the game. Thank you for highlighting the darker side. Once its seen its easier for these people who will succeed to see better where its dark and for these who will not succeed anyway quit tomorrow after reading this page. DO NOT BECOME AMWAY, USE AMWAY. Re: Equinox Thank you for your story - it is my story as well as, I'm sure thousands of others. My husband came home from an "interview" (that he drove 1 1/2 hours to get to) with a manual that he had to pay $50.00 for. Needless to say, I was like "you went on an interview & had to by your own manual? -what kind of job is that?!!!!" His response -"This is something I want to do, so you'll either support me or you won't-why do you have to shoot it down before you have even seen the opportunity?" In trying not to be the closed minded person that I didn't want to be, I told him fine-try it out. He then went to "the office" nearest our home - 1/2 hour drive, and came home and told me that a "Director" who used to be in construction, made $5000 the previous month -his 1st month!!! what a lie, what a joke, what a crime. We jumped in with both feet. Lost family members, racked up $60,000 in credit card debt using "other people's money" -filed for bankruptcy. The whole situation still haunts me. I gained so much from the training-I totally came out of my shell, and am now the extrovert I always new I was - I am more confident. The products changed my life, I can tell you story after story on improvements in my health when using products, and yet there is no real joy in the good because I know today, I too can easily be a sheep. Even though I gained so much of myself - I traded much of myself to be a sheep. Thanks for making space for my voice - and the saying that holds the most truth is "if it sounds too good to be true - it probably is" Re: Equinox I was a distributor who bought and used products. These products were among the finest of their type in the world. There was deceptive practices that can be traced to a large number of top producers whose distributorships were terminated in late 1997. The 'posion' was still evident in their downlines that remained in the company. From a product standpoint: my relatives and myself were 'screaming' for a solution to our 'rotten' water at the time. My first shower in filtered water was one of the most incredible experiences I have ever known. My body responded immediately to having the correct minerals replaced with the 'Essence of Life' mineral product. The deodorant no longer 'burned' when i put it on. My teeth felt stronger from the minerals that were in the toothpaste. From a business standpoint: what product did you USE? When I buy products to use from Walmart I don't say that I 'lost' money, because I used them. What did you use? $12? $300? $500? $5600?. Subtract this from the amount that you 'lost'. What did you 'give away' ? What did you give to your family and friends? When I buy a gift and give it to a friend or member of my family, should I consider that a 'loss' ? Should I blame Walmart for the gifts that I bought and consider that a 'loss'? What did you give away as 'free' samples? What did you sell for less than you paid for it? If you buy a CD and then decide to sell it, getting less than you paid, do you blame the store that you bought it from? If you were a rep with no money to get started, you make about $60 on a countertop and $40 on a showermate. Forget every other product for a minute. Your upline should have product- and should never object to you selling his or her product. If you sold even 3 a week working about 30-40 hours to do it that's $9-$10 an hour. Off the street! You fill out a sheet called a Prospective CUSTOMER List, not a Prospective RECRUIT List. Your recruiting will take years, to find the right people. Bill Gouldd said after briefings, that should not be longer than 45 minutes, #1- Do you SEE an OPPORTUNITY? #2- Can you AFFORD to take advantage of the opportunity? #3 Where do YOU see yourself getting started? Not, you need $5000 worth of product or whatever. Bill Gouldd said "the last thing I want is a truck showing up at your door, unloading $5000 worth of product and scaring you to death". And- if you don't want to do it, NO problem, don't do it! Trainings- Sat trainings were free with free lunch. VCR tape trainings were free. AMS cassettes were free to listen to, provided someone in the office would let you borrow one or two. A set was only about $150. Bill Gouldd was live every saturday for free to 'reps off the street'. There was big trainings called REGIONAL trainings, in which the product manufactures described, in detail, how their products worked and what the ingredients were. These were on the scale of Basic Building Blocks, and were FREE! Bill Gouldd said " the way to make a check is to make sure your people make a check first". Alot of you people were misled by people in between you and THE source. Were you getting 80% of the WRONG information? These Directors, Execs, IMD's were trying to get THEMSELVES a check, instead of building a long term business, like Bill Gouldd teaches. Have any of you heard Bill Gouldd's actual words? It's easy to say Bill Gouldd said this or did that and insert anything you like. What about you mr. Anthony Robbins? Did you take what Bill Gouldd taught and incorporate it into your own words to sell tapes on late night TV? I don't mean that negatively, I hope that your words help everyone that hears them. It's easy to talk about your negative experiences because they are real. You were in training centers with all kinds of different people who had no idea what they were saying or doing. If you want the REAL McCOY, find some AMS cassettes or watch some videos with Bill Gouldd speaking. Listening to some of these so called 'experts' is like listening to the Monkees when you really want the Beatles. Bill Gouldd said ' the biggest reason people fail in this business is because they don't know how to make a decision, the second biggest reason why people fail in this business is because they don't know how to keep a decision once they've made a decision' Re: Renaissance: The Tax People I need more information on Renaissance...The Tax People.net....I am a new distributor and have questions...please forward any further information regarding this company and issues at hand...Thank You Re: Big Planet I was approached by a big planet rep. I want to find out about the pro's and con's of the company but can't find any on the net. Can you point me in the right direction for a bigplanet bulletin board or message board. I've looked every where. thanks Re: Equinox I am one of the people who was taken in by the fast paced and extremely motivational techniques of Equinox International. I just found out about the Goverment shutting Equinox down last night from this web site. I was really doing everything I could to make this MLM work, the initial 5 grand investment, a few friends 5 grand, basic building blocks, advanced seminars, annual kickoff. i was even trying to hold my own meetings for the ones i got involved in the company. we were an hour away from the closest training center so I purchased several hundreds even thousands of dollars worth of tapes and videos for them to use and me to study to teach them. needless to say it didn't turn out like i planned. i could go on but that is not the purpose of this email. i have read the articles you posted here on this site and it said if you joined between Jan 1, 1991 & Jan. 7th, 1997. I joined in late of 98 along with several friends. I just sat down with all my receipts and figured I spent over 12, 500 personally on Equinox International. since I wasn't a distributor before jan 7, 1997 what should i do ? sincerely, |
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